Bands that will never ever, get back together

[Kankurette]

Even by the time they split, Stove King could still not really play the bass. Most of the bass parts on the records were played by Draper or Chad. In the 'Nobody Cares When You're Gone' documentary DVD that came with the special edition of the Legacy compilation, there is video of him atttempting to learn bass parts in the studio while Draper and Chad are bemoaning his lack of skill in the control room. I do wonder if that is what led him to do the off with the band's money. One of my colleages went to school with him in Ellesmere Port and says he works in the Toyota engine plant in Deeside now.

The guy who runs the Britpop Curious club night has been doing online quizzes because of COVID and the site he currently uses to host them has a chat room. Stove's popped up in there a few times.

What did he do with the band's money?

[famethrowa]

Isn't the Stove King that moron who posts a single dot in every topic?

[buzby]

They were happy to bin off their drummers that didn't cut the mustard, so he must have been able to play at least a bit live - or why the heck keep him on?

He was Draper's mate from before the band started (he was basically Mansun's Andy Fletcher to Draper's Martin Gore) - they met after they left school and were working as photo retouchers for two rival companies on the same industrial estate on the outskirts of Chester. I think that's why what happened that brought about the end of the band has coloured Draper's lyrics from the Kleptomania sessions to this day.

They didn't get rid of Hibbert because he couldn't play - he was sacked because of the bust up with Chad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDNthP7Fzw
Not Britpop? Vocalist sounds exactly equidistant from that fella out Blur and Liam Gallagher.

To be fair that was fairly early on in their career (it was the lead track on the One EP, their second release after signing to EMI). Their songwriting and Draper's vocals developed fairly rapidly during the recording of thier first album (his vocals on Wide Open Space sound nothing like that, for example, and there's nothing Britpop at all about Six).

The guy who runs the Britpop Curious club night has been doing online quizzes because of COVID and the site he currently uses to host them has a chat room. Stove's popped up in there a few times.

What did he do with the band's money?

As the band were imploding during the recordingof their fourth album (the label took control of their musical direction after the commercial failure of Six and vetted all Draper & Chads demos for 'commercial potential' before booking them studio time), King stole a large sum of money out of the band's accounts (reportely to fund a career as a speedway rider, but there were drug problems with some band members as well). When Draper & Chad got together to finish off the tracks that had been recorded for a posthumous release, they named the album Kleptomania.

[JaDanketies]

Are The Cranberries or Therapy? britpop? Please consider before answering that the Good Friday agreement is already looking fragile.

[sutin]

Are The Cranberries or Therapy? britpop? Please consider before answering that the Good Friday agreement is already looking fragile.

Ash used to get called britpop which always seemed in bad taste to me.

The Cranberries are from the ROI by the way.

[JaDanketies]

It's definitely a quagmire, this whole Britpop genre

[turnstyle]

Even by the time they split, Stove King could still not really play the bass. Most of the bass parts on the records were played by Draper or Chad. In the 'Nobody Cares When You're Gone' documentary DVD that came with the special edition of the Legacy compilation, there is video of him atttempting to learn bass parts in the studio while Draper and Chad are bemoaning his lack of skill in the control room.

Christ, I just watched this (it's on the YouTubes). 'He was crap before Christmas. Now he's learned it he can do it, but only do it shitly'.

[sutin]

This might go down in history as the longest ever discussion on the band Mansun.

[turnstyle]

This might go down in history as the longest ever discussion on the band Mansun.

I'm going to call Norris McWhirter and see if we can make this official.

I got into Mansun early on, picked up those early EPs as they came out. I remember my Mum seeing the case for EP1 in my room and freaking out because she thought I was listening to Charles Manson and going all satanic. No Mum, it's just a bloke singing about an egg shaped fred. No, I don't know what it means either Mum.

[daf]

I'm going to call Norris McWhirter and see if we can make this official.

Dedication.
Dedication.
Dedication.
That's what you need.
If you wanna be the best,
and you wanna beat the rest.
Oo-ooh! Dedication's what you need.
~ (Trumpet Solo) ~
But I fucked it up, shot my load
Spewed onto the motorway shoulder
I could have been somebody special

[turnstyle]

Dedication.
Dedication.
Dedication.
That's what you need.
If you wanna be the best,
and you wanna beat the rest.
Oo-ooh! Dedication's what you need.
~ (Trumpet Solo) ~
But I fucked it up, shot my load
Spewed onto the motorway shoulder
I could have been somebody special

Genuine lolz from me, nice one daf. Tell you what, take the rest of the day off, you've earned it.

[A Hat Like That]

Just stuck on I Can Only Disappoint U and I can say i've never heard it in my life. And according to Wikipedia it came out in 2000, which was well after britpop.

on the MaccyDs CD rotation Summer 2000, followed by Reef : Set the Record Straight.

sigh.

[A Hat Like That]

Are The Cranberries or Therapy? britpop? Please consider before answering that the Good Friday agreement is already looking fragile.

Therapy? fella describes the Britpop years as his Eamonn Holmes era

Not that this helps in any way.

[purlieu]

Therapy? playing a mixture of noise-rock, post-punk, pop-punk, alt-metal and other hyphenated genres means they're not even britpop-related.
The Divine Comedy, however, now there's a can of worms.

[danwho9]

The Divine Comedy, however, now there's a can of worms.

I personally wish Animals that Swim could have got a bit more attention, they were a bit like a more indie version of them in a way. Only the band The Divine Comedy could have been.

[purlieu]

I'd like to stop this particular thread direction before someone mentions My Life Story.

[crankshaft]

I'd like to stop this particular thread direction before someone mentions My Life Story.

UGH

[Spiteface]

They were happy to bin off their drummers that didn't cut the mustard, so he must have been able to play at least a bit live - or why the heck keep him on?

Probably alright live, but they wanted it done "better" for the actual studio versions that exist long after the band is around for.

Sounds like a similar situation with James Iha and D'Arcy Wretzky in the Smashing Pumpkins. Butch Vig, who produced Gish and Siamese Dream, felt it was better if Billy Corgan did all their parts in the studio, as he could do it in fewer takes.

Also, James and D'Arcy were going through a messy breakup during the recording of Siamese Dream, which didn't help.

Speaking of Billy Corgan and band tensions, he started doing Zwan songs again in solo gigs a few years back. There was even talk of him at one point doing some Zwan stuff again.

If he does, it'll just be him, Jimmy Chamberlin and a revolving door of other musicians. Like 2007-2018 Pumpkins really. Zwan fell apart pretty badly, Corgan hates the other three members (Matt Sweeney, Paz Lenchantin and David Pajo), and it sounds like there's no love lost on their end, either (especially with Pajo).

A shame as there was some really good stuff that Zwan did, that never got released. Spilled Milk should have been on the album.

[Kankurette]

Are The Cranberries or Therapy? britpop? Please consider before answering that the Good Friday agreement is already looking fragile.

Therapy? No way. They're way too heavy.

Billy Corgan is a turd of a man. I'm not surprised the rest of the band binned him off. I think they had Chamberlin with him when I saw them and a couple of women - one was called Ginger, I think? They were pretty disappointing. Much better at Reading though I didn't really get to watch them properly as I was running around with a fire extinguisher (I was working for Oxfam that year).

As the band were imploding during the recordingof their fourth album (the label took control of their musical direction after the commercial failure of Six and vetted all Draper & Chads demos for 'commercial potential' before booking them studio time), King stole a large sum of money out of the band's accounts (reportely to fund a career as a speedway rider, but there were drug problems with some band members as well). When Draper & Chad got together to finish off the tracks that had been recorded for a posthumous release, they named the album Kleptomania.

Love it. The Kleptomania bit, I mean. Six was pretty out there, but it had its moments. I seem to remember one of the songs had a bit about Winnie the Pooh in it.

Egg Shaped Fred was really early on, as was Take It Easy Chicken.

[JohnnyCouncil]

Probably alright live, but they wanted it done "better" for the actual studio versions that exist long after the band is around for.

Sounds like a similar situation with James Iha and D'Arcy Wretzky in the Smashing Pumpkins. Butch Vig, who produced Gish and Siamese Dream, felt it was better if Billy Corgan did all their parts in the studio, as he could do it in fewer takes.

Also, James and D'Arcy were going through a messy breakup during the recording of Siamese Dream, which didn't help.

Speaking of Billy Corgan and band tensions, he started doing Zwan songs again in solo gigs a few years back. There was even talk of him at one point doing some Zwan stuff again.

If he does, it'll just be him, Jimmy Chamberlin and a revolving door of other musicians. Like 2007-2018 Pumpkins really. Zwan fell apart pretty badly, Corgan hates the other three members (Matt Sweeney, Paz Lenchantin and David Pajo), and it sounds like there's no love lost on their end, either (especially with Pajo).

A shame as there was some really good stuff that Zwan did, that never got released. Spilled Milk should have been on the album.

WPC and A New Poetry too, bloody loved listening to those early shows.

[Jockice]

I'd like to stop this particular thread direction before someone mentions My Life Story.

Brilliant live band. Or so I thought. Admittedly the time I saw them I was uncharacteristically absolutely bladdered, but still. I'm sure if I saw them nowadays I'd be a bit disappointed. I have my memories though. And you can't take that away from me. Until I get diagnosed with Alzheimers.

[Jockice]

The Divine Comedy, however, now there's a can of worms.

A can of shit more like. The smug little tit.

[buzby]

Probably alright live, but they wanted it done "better" for the actual studio versions that exist long after the band is around for.

King really wasn't alright live either. As mentioned, the clip of him attempting to learn the basslines in Nobody Cares When You're Gone is evidence of this:

Christ, I just watched this (it's on the YouTubes). 'He was crap before Christmas. Now he's learned it he can do it, but only do it shitly'.

Love it. The Kleptomania bit, I mean. Six was pretty out there, but it had its moments. I seem to remember one of the songs had a bit about Winnie the Pooh in it.

Six has so many references in it - Draper really put everything into it. Parlophone didn't know what to make of it and neither did the critics, which pissed the band off as they were on the same label as Radiohead who seemed to have every whim indulged and OK Computer was similarly obtuse but had been hailed as the second coming.

Because of the album's commercial failure, as soon as the promotional cycle ended the band were forced back into the studio to record another album to make back EMI's investment, but there was a price to pay. First of all, the band tried to oust Draper and replace him with another singer, blaming him for the making Six so dense and impenetrable. Although that didn't work, he was removed from being the band's producer and they were also forced to give up their royalties from merchandising and licencing to help pay off their debt. The label also imposed the aforementioned 'commercial' restrictions on their songwriting. As a result, Draper refused to tour or promote the album.

[daf]

First of all, the band tried to oust Draper and replace him with another singer, blaming him for the making Six so dense and impenetrable.

Madness! Who did they think was going to write the songs?

The label also imposed the aforementioned 'commercial' restrictions on their songwriting.

No wonder the next album turned out like it did - with "I Can Only Disappoint U" sounding like an apology for the drop in quality!

[mobias]

I was always quite sad yet also impressed that despite all still being best mates Genesis never got back together, the original line up with Gabriel and Hackett that is.

Roger Waters and David Gilmour are back to fighting over the Floyd legacy and hating each others guts so Pink Floyd are over and one with, thankfully I might add. 

[purlieu]

A can of shit more like. The smug little tit.

You always say that, and yet I've never come across a time when Neil Hannon wasn't incredibly modest, quite self-critical and just really down to Earth. He's possibly one of the least smug musicians I've ever come across.

[Jockice]

You always say that, and yet I've never come across a time when Neil Hannon wasn't incredibly modest, quite self-critical and just really down to Earth. He's possibly one of the least smug musicians I've ever come across.

I know I do. And I think his work's incredibly smug. His two most famous songs should be retitled Smug Woodshed Shite and Smug Bus Shite. Not to mention his face with it's 'I'm so incredibly clever and witty' expression permanently smeared across it.

Sorry, but I really find absolutely everything about him nauseating. And as I've no doubt mentioned before, I've had big arguments with good friends who think he's great. But he winds me up in a way that otherwise only the Red Hot Chili Peppers can manage.

[Jockice]

I do quite like Generation Sex though. The exception that proves the rule.

[Chicory]

Because of the album's commercial failure, as soon as the promotional cycle ended the band were forced back into the studio to record another album to make back EMI's investment, but there was a price to pay. First of all, the band tried to oust Draper and replace him with another singer, blaming him for the making Six so dense and impenetrable. Although that didn't work, he was removed from being the band's producer and they were also forced to give up their royalties from merchandising and licencing to help pay off their debt. The label also imposed the aforementioned 'commercial' restrictions on their songwriting. As a result, Draper refused to tour or promote the album.

The result being 'Little Kix', half of which is solid, the other half total bobbins.  If Draper initially refused to tour LK, he must have eventually relented because I saw them three times during that time and have clear memories of them playing the likes of 'I Can Only Disappoint U', 'Love Is...', 'Comes As No Surprise' and what have you.  If only I'd known about the corporate pressure they were under at the time, I would've been a lot more understanding about them suddenly going commercial pop-rock.

[daf]

I do quite like Generation Sex though. The exception that proves the rule.

Haha - Once again, I have to say . . . I'm a massive fan!

That said, I'd dropped off the pace following 'Fin De Siecle' in 1999 or whatever it was *,  and only rejoined the fun with the recent massive box set last year - so I was hearing six albums for the first time all in one go.

Unfortunately, despite having loads of extra B-sides and demos and whatnot, my favourite one - the 1996 Radcliffe session version of Your Daddy's Car, with the full band rocking out, wasn't included - curses!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* (turning 30, I found myself bored with the current pop music, and went off for a 10 year deep dive into 1920's Hot Jazz, Gershwin musicals and Wagner operas!)