Author Topic: Northern Independence Party  (Read 10647 times)

king_tubby

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Northern Independence Party
« on: March 29, 2021, 09:49:34 AM »
Hit the North!

Absorb the anus burn

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2021, 09:58:05 AM »
"I say whippet.... Whippet good!"

king_tubby

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 09:58:39 AM »
Ash Sarkar: The Northern Independence Party present a challenge to Starmer precisely because they are able to project a sense of authentic identity, tied to a place. But there's also that ironic tone, sort of always half taking the piss, which defines how people communicate in digital spaces. In short, they're not focus grouped to death before they speak and have found a register which is fairly engaging.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 10:07:13 AM »
People interested in understanding what they're up to could do worse than watch this, Aaron Bastani interviewing Philip Proudfoot, founder of the Northern Independence Party. 

Probably useful for people to bear in mind there are two parties with similar sounding names best not confused.  The Northern Independence Party, a secessionist, democratic socialist political party which seeks to make Northern England an independent state under the name Northumbria and the North East Party, a regionalist political party which campaigns for a better deal for North East England generally and is committed to a devolved assembly in the North East with powers similar to those in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.  This is also discussed in the interview.

Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 10:08:57 AM »
My own feeling (without any real evidence, just guessing) is that people in places like Hartlepool aren't ready yet to admit they were wrong by going Tory. Can't really see this NIP mob doing too much either - it's possible the connections with Labour through picking Thelma Walker will work against them too, and they might have been better going with someone local.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2021, 10:13:17 AM »
I think you should watch that interview.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2021, 10:18:19 AM »
I watched the interview. I can't see the message cutting through without an unhealthy dose of nationalism and anti-immigration sentiment at this point in time.

What happens when the scope of the term 'immigrants' equates to everyone from outside a 100-mile-wide box drawn around the Pennines?

I don't think this is the solution.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2021, 10:19:56 AM »
Remind me which UK political parties are avoiding nationalism and anti-immigration sentiment at the moment.  And you fear the NIP might adopt some?  That they haven't already, speaks volumes.

And, if you've watched the interview, you'll know that Proudfoot explicitly says that he hopes the new Northumbria will be a place that will welcome anyone who wishes to live there.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 10:20:56 AM »
Additionally, this is another excuse for the Labour Party - if they lose, they can just say "Oh, well what did you expect when we have ex-members conspiring against us?". If they win, they'll just pick up a little wind.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 10:21:56 AM »
Remind me which UK political parties are avoiding nationalism and anti-immigration sentiment at the moment.  And you fear the NIP might adopt some?  That they haven't already, speaks volumes.

I don't fear that it will - it can't succeed withour doing so. And when your borders are 'north of Stoke and South of the Scottish Border', that nationalism is pretty fucking toxic.

Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 10:23:25 AM »
Labour will lose this one, to the Tories.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 10:23:29 AM »
And, if you've watched the interview, you'll know that Proudfoot explicitly says that he hopes the new Northumbria will be a place that will welcome anyone who wishes to live there.

Yeah, but democracy. It doesn't matter what he says; he needs to pick up votes from people who probably won't agree with this sentiment.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2021, 10:24:44 AM »
Sorry, I think you may have missed the second para, added quickly but not quickly enough, my mistake, I wanted to check it, but it addresses your concerns there.

Remind me which UK political parties are avoiding nationalism and anti-immigration sentiment at the moment.  And you fear the NIP might adopt some?  That they haven't already, speaks volumes.

And, if you've watched the interview, you'll know that Proudfoot explicitly says that he hopes the new Northumbria will be a place that will welcome anyone who wishes to live there.

We can only go on what people say and do - probably, Paul, probably.  He speaks at great length about rejecting the flag-waving anti-immigration shite.  You need to listen again, imo.

On the worrying about fucking Labour, fuck 'em, we've danced to their tune long enough, time to set and work towards other progressive agendas now.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2021, 10:26:43 AM »
No, I didn't. See above.

Yeah, but democracy. It doesn't matter what he says; he needs to pick up votes from people who probably won't agree with this sentiment.

You can't tell people what they want, and what they want now is chauvinism. I think this is the right solution at the wrong time.


Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2021, 10:29:55 AM »
If that's what people want, then there's no hope.  We know that's not true.  It's why so many are leaving Labour or being thrown out.  They don't all want to live as out bigots.  Not by a long chalk.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2021, 10:32:41 AM »
It's what they want now, as we've seen from the GE and opinion polls. I don't see how reducing their horizons to people who talk like them is going to help at all.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2021, 10:34:48 AM »
So what is your solution Paul?

BTW, I know you've said you've watched that interview.  Can I suggest you watch it again, all the way through and you concentrate and listen?

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2021, 10:38:27 AM »
Solution for what?

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 10:41:12 AM »
You're obviously quite exercised about this issue, you clearly think NIP's a bad thing, so what would you do in their place?

pancreas

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2021, 10:41:51 AM »
It's what they want now, as we've seen from the GE and opinion polls. I don't see how reducing their horizons to people who talk like them is going to help at all.

I think that if you examine your own reaction to this carefully, you will find it is based on instinct and not strategy.

I have joined, by contrast.

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2021, 10:42:30 AM »
I applaud you pancs, really I do!

Old Nehamkin

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2021, 10:43:04 AM »
As always, if you desire anything other than the eternal preservation of the glorious United Kingdom then you are a bad, scary nationalist who would probably have been right on board with Hitler. Sorry, I don't make the rules. Also it's time we took back Ireland.

From the Labour thread:

I'd definitely be very happy to live in a region entirely governed by the people who voted for Brexit and the most right-authoritarian government in modern British history. Can't see what the problem is there.

You are sounding like those American liberal pundits who like to smugly proclaim that people who live in Republican-controlled states deserve any hardship that befalls them because they failed to vote the correct way by however slim a margin within a broken sham of an electoral system and an utterly poisonous media landscape. To darkly imply that the people of Northern England are irredeemably prone to fascism because a plurality of them were persuaded that their material conditions would be improved by leaving the EU (and, for a further minority of them, that re-electing the current government was the only way to ringfence that promise) is just as fundamentally dishonest, smarmy and, frankly, a little classist.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 11:08:55 AM by Old Nehamkin »

imitationleather

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2021, 10:43:32 AM »
Big up the NIP.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2021, 10:45:13 AM »
As always, if you desire anything other than the eternal preservation of the glorious United Kingdom then you are a bad, scary nationalist who would probably have been right on board with Hitler. Sorry, I don't make the rules. Also it's time we took back Ireland.

That's not what I've said and you're wrong to misrepresent it this way.

Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2021, 10:45:35 AM »
To darkly imply that the people of Northern England are irredeemably prone to fascism because a plurality of them were persuaded that their material conditions would be improved by leaving the EU (and, for a further minority of them, that re-electing the current government was the only way to ringfence that promise) is just as fundamentally dishonest, smarmy and, frankly, a little classist.

Yeah, and you're not giving us cunts in Kent our share of the credit either.

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2021, 10:49:54 AM »
To darkly imply that the people of Northern England are irredeemably prone to fascism because a plurality of them were persuaded that their material conditions would be improved by leaving the EU (and, for a further minority of them, that re-electing the current government was the only way to ringfence that promise) is just as fundamentally dishonest, smarmy and, frankly, a little classist.

Further, I apologise for assuming that people blinded by their obsession with a single issue would vote for extremist authoritarians just because that's exactly what they did.

Bernice

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2021, 10:51:05 AM »
Which people? What issue? What the fuck are you talking about?

Paul Calf

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2021, 10:52:05 AM »
All the words are there. Which ones are troubling you?

Buelligan

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2021, 10:57:13 AM »
Come on Paul, don't type yourself into a corner, we're all (nearly all) friends here.  I think pancs spoke truth when he said you may be reacting, behaving, instinctively, rather than strategically or logically.  Don't set your face against, no need, watch and think. 

Bernice

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Re: Northern Independence Party
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2021, 10:57:49 AM »
You can be snippy but I'm not on a wind up here. You're talking about this in these dire, portentous maxims and I don't really get it.

Which ones are troubling you?

For one thing, does "people blinded by their obsession with a single issue" refer to what would be a Northumbrian electorate? Or all leave voters? In either case, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that "they" all voted for the Tories?


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