Northern Independence Party

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It seems to me the switch to the right in the late 80s and into the 90s was a one shot strategy with high chance of short term success while also fundamentally weakening the foundations of the party.

The right are wondering why the public don't like them anymore and increasingly treating them like some alien body that needs communicating with by proxy, while the left are becoming increasingly angrier and more agitating as each year goes by without proper representation.

I think it does need someone of reasonable substance to come along and put forward clear founding principles, Labour's 'centre' if you like, including a raft of internal reforms such as open selection and capping private donations, and invite those at the fringes to get lost if they don't like it.

To be clear, I would support Labour wholeheartedly even if there was only a modest centre left manifesto, I am not an unreasonable person.

[Paul Calf]

I mean recent history does tend to suggest this is actually the most effective weapon, Farage has been by far the most successful UK politician of the 21st century in terms of shifting the political mainstream via the threat of splitting the vote.

They did that in the context of a party that was already pretty strong, and with a core vote that would always ensure its survival whatever it did. The Labour Party is already riven with internal conflict having just deliberately thrown two elections, and will probably combust after the May elections.

Also (and I'm tired of saying this) Farage was never in any way opposed to the establishment. He was one of them. Powerful people liked him because he has a fascist solution to the problem of inequality. He got good press, even if it wasn't always sympathetic. UKIP is not replicable on the left and the political naivety required to think it is is staggering.

[Buelligan]

The point is, Paul, this choice, to abandon Labour and create a new force is the best option available.  The best chance we have. There is no perfect option, this is not going to be handed over on a plate and, once you've come to terms with that, the choice is submit or try to change the world.  Them's the choices. 

It seems to me the switch to the right in the late 80s and into the 90s was a one shot strategy with high chance of short term success while also fundamentally weakening the foundations of the party.

The right are wondering why the public don't like them anymore and increasingly treating them like some alien body that needs communicating with by proxy, while the left are becoming increasingly angrier and more agitating as each year goes by without proper representation.

I think it does need someone of reasonable substance to come along and put forward clear founding principles, Labour's 'centre' if you like, including a raft of internal reforms such as open selection and capping private donations, and invite those at the fringes to get lost if they don't like it.

To be clear, I would support Labour wholeheartedly even if there was only a modest centre left manifesto, I am not an unreasonable person.

Have you considered the possibility that people, high ups in Labour and the British Establishment, do not want that?

They don't give a toss about Labour as a proud, a beloved, part of historic working class struggle or a progressive force for societal good, they care about money and power and they don't give a fuck about anybody else.  The only use that Labour has to them, the only reason they have involvement in it, is to preserve their control over the choices ordinary people have.

If their grip on Labour is what it is, Labour cannot be saved, therefore a new engine for progress and change must be built.  This is not about emotion, the crying's over, this is about pragmatism and the importance of the goal above mere party loyalty.  The primacy of the dear old cause.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Now you have two sides who would rather burn Labour to the ground that cede it to the other even if they are only in charge of the ashes. Pretty unhealthy.

From the very beginning, Corbyn's side bent over backward to accommodate the right and were rewarded with the chicken coup,  even after that they were way too conciliatory and failed to push their advantage, resulting in the chicken coup part 2 that took on the dual forms of people's vote nonsense and the AS scam.

Now Starmer's reign of beige terror has made perfectly clear if it wasn't already from the above that burning down the Labour Party and starting again is the only option, as the current Labour establishment is the main enemy of progress in this country. We have to go through the 'burning down' part before the rebuilding can begin, sadly -painful as it may be... And that involves more of things like this NiP business.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Regarding AS and the inevitable accusations against NIP, I think we can see they will fail as they have failed elsewhere outside the Labour Party - the reason they were so effective at damaging Corbyn was that most of the attacks came from people that were supposed to be on the same side - which is why the Labour right are such an effective weapon of the establishment - but outside Labour that doesn't work in anything like the same way (see also why the Guardian is the worst of all the papers)

[Buelligan]

I think you're entirely correct about this.  Another positive reason for moving on from Labour.

[All Surrogate]

Will Jeremy Corbyn be "moving on" from the Labour Party, do you think?

[Buelligan]

I don't see it as relevant.  Choosing allegiance to a political party is an extremely personal thing.  If I had to guess, I'd say no because he's invested his whole life in the Labour movement, suffered enormous personal injury and pain for it, he's old now, I wouldn't expect him to voluntarily abandon it, even after all he's been put through.  But you can never say never, his choice.  Has nothing to do with my choice and I'll admire him whatever.

[Johnny Yesno]

Regarding AS and the inevitable accusations against NIP, I think we can see they will fail as they have failed elsewhere outside the Labour Party - the reason they were so effective at damaging Corbyn was that most of the attacks came from people that were supposed to be on the same side

And also because Labour under a left wing leadership were a credible threat to the establishment. NIP aren't, so you won't see the same level of investment in attacking them.

[Buelligan]

I agree, Hartlepool will be the watershed, although I also think it's true that there are some, the Cunt Akehurstians of this world, who stamp on anything that's not theirs and might ask questions after if they can be bothered.

[ZoyzaSorris]

And also because Labour under a left wing leadership were a credible threat to the establishment. NIP aren't, so you won't see the same level of investment in attacking them.

They will be if they start to damage a pro-establishment Labour.

[Johnny Yesno]

They will be if they start to damage a pro-establishment Labour.

In which case, the antisemitism smear campaign will be stepped up. Don't make the mistake of being complacent this early on.

[BlodwynPig]

In which case, the antisemitism smear campaign will be stepped up. Don't make the mistake of being complacent this early on.

Are you saying the root of the antisemitism 'smears' come from within the Labour Party?

[Johnny Yesno]

No.

[jamiefairlie]

Are you saying the root of the antisemitism 'smears' come from within the Labour Party?

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Infighting is always dirtier and more vicious.

[BlodwynPig]

No.

3-2-1 "then where from?"

[Buelligan]

If you haven't watched Owen Jones interviewing Philip Proudfoot, do it, I think you'll like it.  Starts, maybe, a little slow but the pace picks up, it surely does.  Addresses many of the questions being asked in this thread.  Inspiring and exciting.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I assume the earlier interview with Bastani is in the thread somewhere too.

[Buelligan]

Heheh.  Yes, I think I posted in the first few posts and subsequently.

[Buelligan]

Unlike Labour, the Northern Independence Party will never allow the human rights of anyone to be diminished or debated.

Says it all.

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1378318228825456642

[BlodwynPig]

Says it all.

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1378318228825456642

Common sense. Normal. Should not need to be stated.

[king_tubby]

The antisemitism slurs have ramped up today, but Phil ain't shook.

https://twitter.com/PhilipProudfoot/status/1378793247405916162

[ZoyzaSorris]

As I say, I think such slurs will not be nearly as effective outside of the Labour context because a) many of the attacks were coming from within Labour itself which made them seem more plausible to outsiders and b) Corbyn and co made the fatal error of giving them any level of credence at all rather than laughing them off and pointing out the craven nature of the key accusers from the very start. Doubt anyone else is likely to make the same mistake and won't be weighed down by a) either.

[Buelligan]

And I think he's absolutely on the button blocking these cunts.  They thrive on being fed as we all know.  Block the fucking lot.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

https://twitter.com/freenorthnow/status/1378479663941615618?s=21

Enjoyed this simpsons shitpost from yesterday

[jobotic]

And I think he's absolutely on the button blocking these cunts.  They thrive on being fed as we all know.  Block the fucking lot.

Who are "they" in this case? the usual cunts?

[BlodwynPig]

Who are "they" in this case? the usual cunts?

Was going to ask the same thing. Would bloody love to see them with egg on their faces!

[king_tubby]

I think he used a block list which blocked everyone who followed the banned 'GnasherJew' account.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

And I think he's absolutely on the button blocking these cunts.  They thrive on being fed as we all know.  Block the fucking lot.

Absolutely correct, and should be adopted by all.

[Buelligan]

Yes, had a brief look last night, lots of them posting (some, multiposting) about being blocked and not knowing who he/they are (despite some having posted trolly stuff at re;NIP beforehand).  I mean, really dreadful people, some of the people that poisoned Labour under Corbyn and are now turning their malice on NIP.  Time they were pulled up, they're not in charge of democracy and they can't trample humans just because.  Vile, cruel, should never be fed.

VOTE NIP, if you possibly can, what better endorsement can NIP have than to be attacked by these individuals?  But there's so much more.

People sometimes wonder what's the future for the "UK" if NIP is pioneering a future trend?

I like the idea, personally, of a coalition of "independent" parties that all support progressive politics, decentralised power, more local democracy, and community wealth building.

A vote for Thelma Walker is

A chance to put a socialist in Parliament
A vote against the war in Yemen
A vote to give nurses a proper pay rise
A vote for Wealth Taxes
A vote to give the north a stronger voice

https://twitter.com/PhilipProudfoot/status/1378694015604916225