Author Topic: Amazon  (Read 4468 times)

Re: Amazon
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2021, 12:06:45 AM »
Labour had this exact problem if you remember regarding Copeland where the attitude came across as fuck the workers we are anti-nuclear I don't need to remind you what happened next do I?
I guess one thing I'd add here is that (speaking from having numerous family and friends who worked there) Sellafield wasn't a bad place to work at. In fact, if you were there long enough, and it was pretty tricky to get binned off I gather, it became an absolute doss and then you could (at least when my dad did) retire at 60 on a nice pension. Add in that and the fact it was the only game in town for employment, it's easy to see why any anti-nuclear stance would never go down well there.

Tories are perhaps trying the same game in the same area with regards to coal, I guess.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2021, 12:26:31 AM »
Lots of other online companies have terrible employment practices. There have been press stories about Asos's fulfilment centres (for several years although Covid protection was terrible) (also mentions Boohoo, the other biggest fashion company, and their Pretty Little Thing was COVID central). Most couriers are struggling to make minimum wage. The Post Office and Royal Mail are increasingly shit too. And if you avoid the biggest names, other online shops use massive third-party fulfilment centres that are just as ruthless and shitty as Amazon, all competing on margins, but they have zero oversight because it's a company you've never heard of that you don't even know is involved. Buying online is just a nightmare, but it's effectively driven all the real-world shops out of business, so soon there will be no choice. I guess buy less?

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Amazon
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2021, 08:49:14 AM »
it's the same as recycling in the grand scheme of things it does little more than make you feel better about yourself.  Not that there is anything wrong with that, I recycle and feel good about it but I know it ultimately does nothing. There has rightly imo been quite a few green folk like Monbiot coming out and saying it can be harmful to think in these ways as problem that are large and systemic, need to be approached from a large and systemic angle i.e. voting; unionising; policy and of course collectivising (the stopping of which is of course the prime focus of the government and corporations in their pursuit of culture wars).

Individual "sacrifice" or whatever was co-opted by companies as a useful modern day repentance quite some time ago.

I'm going to steal this opinion and have it ready, word for word, the next time I get earache from the missus when I don't peel off the non-recyclable cellophane after putting the recyclable packet in the proper bin. Might try it tonight, wish me luck.

Chedney Honks

  • When life gives u no hair, ball spin
Re: Amazon
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2021, 08:51:38 AM »
The Bodleian library has every book published in the world and everyone says that's so great.

Not so great for the pallid subterranean untermensch who tend the shelves.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Amazon
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2021, 08:55:05 AM »
Not that it negates the gesture, but I do wonder how much people who are boycotting Amazon (the online retail shop) are aware of the vast amounts of the internet that run on AWS. Generating revenue for Amazon is largely unavoidable for anyone who spends any amount of time online. Though I do think the working conditions for those in the warehouses on the retail side of things are probably worse, generally, than those working in cloud services.

I've been railing against AWS for some time - guv like to use it (as well as Microsoft shit). For many, there is no alternative - at least in Academia there are other routes if you need heavy lifting and can wrap that cost into your grant applications.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Amazon
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2021, 08:59:01 AM »
It's a tricky one as Amazon is really just a logistics company for lots of other retailers (I know they make a bit of crap tech also); in essence that could be a good thing.

Regardless the most useful area to apply pressure would be to unionise the workforce; which could actually turn a giant loss into a giant win; just imagine a having a massive global union spanning across continents, how much influence it would have.

it's perhaps complicated but boycotting things like Amazon doesn't really work; these places are too big and diversified to make any difference[1]; it's the same as recycling in the grand scheme of things it does little more than make you feel better about yourself.  Not that there is anything wrong with that, I recycle and feel good about it but I know it ultimately does nothing. There has rightly imo been quite a few green folk like Monbiot coming out and saying it can be harmful to think in these ways as problem that are large and systemic, need to be approached from a large and systemic angle i.e. voting; unionising; policy and of course collectivising (the stopping of which is of course the prime focus of the government and corporations in their pursuit of culture wars).

Individual "sacrifice" or whatever was co-opted by companies as a useful modern day repentance quite some time ago.
 1. also look at past targets Shell & Nescafe

That statement is slightly incorrect. I don't know the figures on UK recycling, the last time I looked it was woefully low - however, in societies where recycling has been the norm it has had dramatic impacts on the environment, sustainability and resilience of the nation to the worst effects. However, recycling should be contextualised as a global issue not local - and that I think is where your crap opinion might hold weight.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Amazon
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2021, 09:14:13 AM »
I think everyone should watch this film from Double Down News, it touches on a lot of stuff that needs serious thought.  Cheers.

AllisonSays

  • disappointed bridge
Re: Amazon
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2021, 09:21:17 AM »
I guess I agree with Trents that too much focus on individual behaviour is a malign tendency, and that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. But on the other hand, it's probably quite a good way to recalibrate your own thinking, recycling, boycotting and so on. Thinking more closely about how you live in the world could be a precursor to collective or political action not an alternative to it.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Amazon
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2021, 09:27:15 AM »
I guess I agree with Trents that too much focus on individual behaviour is a malign tendency, and that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. But on the other hand, it's probably quite a good way to recalibrate your own thinking, recycling, boycotting and so on. Thinking more closely about how you live in the world could be a precursor to collective or political action not an alternative to it.

Precis

Wet Blanket

  • I am the Colour Blind Dog-Thief
Re: Amazon
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2021, 09:34:14 AM »
Does anyone click on the Amazon link on the front page here?

I do, all the time, because there’s a slight lag in that link’s appearance and it’ll suddenly appear in the same spot as the ‘Comedy Chat’ link I meant to hit.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Amazon
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2021, 09:38:32 AM »
I think everyone should watch this film from Double Down News, it touches on a lot of stuff that needs serious thought.  Cheers.

Monbiot has been a powerhouse recently. I just wonder if it is even possible to address this issue. The BBC even had an article the other day mentioning how models are now being replace by 'influencers'.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Amazon
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2021, 09:43:47 AM »
Yes, I think it's very important to think about these things.  And to think about what we need.  Why we need it.  What's driving that.

When we're talking about Amazon - are we saying we have to or choose to, ignore what it's doing because we're obliged to consume and consuming via Amazon is the most efficient method of consumption for most of us?  We need to think about that.  Really question the way our lives our going, are these choices (are they choices) we're making taking us somewhere we really want to go?

Is it possible to live our lives, happy and fulfilled, with less shit?  No shit?

Re: Amazon
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2021, 09:49:03 AM »
I give a fiver a month from Amazon to Limmy, right out of Bezo's pocket. He must be fuming.

Blue Jam

  • Last of the great avuncular magicians
Re: Amazon
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2021, 10:05:01 AM »
Over lockdown I've made an effort to buy things directly from smaller retailers but it's just been depressing to see how often they fuck things up. Orders arriving damaged or with the wrong items, items missing, or parcels being "left securely" in the "porch" we don't have and then stolen. Then having to phone customer services and piss about taking photos of damaged items and emailing them to customer services and still having to wait a month for a refund, or having to repack the wrong item and print a returns label and trudge over to a post office or DPD/Hermes collection point then just praying they don't lose it and that I actually will get a refund in the end somehow.

Then you order from Amazon and Amazon Logistics deliver exactly what you ordered with no problems. The parcels may have traces of piss on them but I guess a pissy parcel is just the price you have to pay.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2021, 10:55:19 AM »
Amazon logistics are mad. They've raised the bar for the entire country and the fact that they're so massive means that they can afford never to quibble about anything and just give you your money back instantly.

bgmnts

  • Depressed to the point of poisonous toxicity.
Re: Amazon
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2021, 11:26:52 AM »
I dont understand how you can think that taking an individual stand or changing your individual behaviour does 'nothing'. It's does something, no matter how small the change is.

Blue Jam

  • Last of the great avuncular magicians
Re: Amazon
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2021, 11:47:55 AM »
Amazon logistics are mad. They've raised the bar for the entire country and the fact that they're so massive means that they can afford never to quibble about anything and just give you your money back instantly.

It’s mad that other companies are still using Hermes and DPD and the business model of "The savings made by using a cheap, shit courier company are greater than cost of giving out refunds for all the stuff that gets lost or stolen or damaged, fuckit". Do they not factor in the losses made with all the customers they lose? There are at least three companies who have lost a customer here because they all use Hermes and I just don't want the hassle of dealing with them ever again, and there's a TK Maxx Facebook group. I'm in which seems to get endless posts about all the stuff Hermes have smashed up in transit, all from people saying they won't be ordering from them again. They're like HDNL/Yodel before they pulled their socks up, when I get an email or text with a delivery notification and see it will be made by Hermes my heart sinks.

Been ordering stuff direct from Adidas lately. They actually use Royal Mail which seems like a breath of fresh air now, which is mad when I can remember it used to be the norm.

How does Amazon Logistics work so well? I can't believe their drivers are under any less pressure than the Hermes ans DPD drivers with their impossible targets which basically force them to cut corners and fuck up deliveries.

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Amazon
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2021, 12:51:29 PM »
I dont understand how you can think that taking an individual stand or changing your individual behaviour does 'nothing'. It's does something, no matter how small the change is.
If absolutely nothing else, the act of trying to remove yourself from something you consider unethical - rather than surrendering to it - presumably bolsters your own moral fortitude and enables you to deal better with other choices.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2021, 01:09:58 PM »

I've bought five things off Amazon and haven't used it since 2005.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2021, 01:13:57 PM »
Haven't knowingly used Amazon for the past ten years, just imagine that cunt bezos roaring with laughter cause you saved 50p on a lawnmower that you absolutely had to have next day whilst dropping your pants and shitting on some minimum wager sweating their nut off in his warehouse fulfilment centre




Re: Amazon
« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2021, 01:40:28 PM »
Monbiot has been a powerhouse recently. I just wonder if it is even possible to address this issue. The BBC even had an article the other day mentioning how models are now being replace by 'influencers'.

I mean from the models own perspective this maybe isn't a big thing? not sure what the shift in pay is but I'd guess the big losers here are more the other people supporting them, they probably still hire photographers but not the same big workforce putting together advertising.

I would agree somewhat with Trenter that focus on personal action does seem like it can be used to deaden desire for political involvement and play up personal guilt rather than anger at those at the top.

RDRR

  • i'm going to start dating you i've decided
Re: Amazon
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2021, 02:06:51 PM »
Maybe worth mentioning that positive measures aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I've found that by avoiding Amazon I do tend to order less online precisely because it is a bit of a faff and costs a bit extra. Google something, see it's on Amazon 10-20% cheaper, get mildly annoyed (despite the fact that most of the time paying an extra few pounds wouldn't really be an issue), realise I don't need it anyway.

Justifying not boycotting a company because it's inconvenient is a bit weak. With that said I haven't managed a total boycott (last ordered a cable I needed back in January), which is a bit weak.

TrenterPercenter

  • Rock the CABLADs
Re: Amazon
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2021, 02:46:14 PM »
I dont understand how you can think that taking an individual stand or changing your individual behaviour does 'nothing'. It's does something, no matter how small the change is.

I'm not saying it does nothing; I think people should do it; I do it and as Zetetic says if not for moral fortitude than anything else. 

Unionising Amazon should be the real target and could be a massive win for workers and the environment; Amazon has a monopoly and there should be interest in controlling and shaping what that means.

The Mollusk

  • A number of deceased arachnids... and beans
Re: Amazon
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2021, 05:22:41 PM »
My mum got me a leather-bound journal from Amazon for my birthday. So as a vegan and general advocate of human rights I was bummed out on two different levels by this gift.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2021, 10:30:25 PM »
I haven't bought anything from Amazon in yonks BUT a huge part of my job is essentially enabling people to buy things (books) from Amazon, so any good done by my own personal boycott is undoubtedly negated tenfold by my work.

Their algorithms, procedures and vendor services are often absolutely maddening to deal with but it's very depressingly evident that they have such absolute power and monopoly that they can afford to completely mangle your data and it's not even close to a drop in the ocean for them. The site was of course originally just a bookshop, so the "books" part of the site is actually very old and clunky compared to newer areas (as it hasn't really been developed much since its advent AFAIK), and there are countless things that break all the time, which seems mad for such a massively high profile service, then you realise they can get away with it because they're so successful they don't even need to have a website that works properly.

If anyone's looking for alternative online bookshops which support local businesses, Hive and Bookshop.org are both a good shout. Also Netgalley allows users to download ebook proofs and audiobook files.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Amazon
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2021, 10:50:40 PM »
I've bought a few cheap ebooks off hive but every bookshop that uses epubs is way more convoluted than Amazon since it requires tools to manage the drm.

In practice I bought books off hive then downloaded copies with the drm stripped off from pirate sites since it was way easier.

Even Amazon's cloud stuff which is a massive industry is quite inconsistent 'under the hood', with different tools having slightly different names/formatting for the same thing.

katzenjammer

  • Now we know...
Re: Amazon
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2021, 09:12:36 AM »
Maybe worth mentioning that positive measures aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I've found that by avoiding Amazon I do tend to order less online precisely because it is a bit of a faff and costs a bit extra. Google something, see it's on Amazon 10-20% cheaper, get mildly annoyed (despite the fact that most of the time paying an extra few pounds wouldn't really be an issue), realise I don't need it anyway.

That's an excellent point and probably the best reason for boycotting them. Everybody should avoid buying shit they don't need, or  strongly desire, whether from Amazon or somewhere else. Be a citizen not a consumer as hard as that is to do.

Neomod

  • .. and HEAVY EQUIPMENT
Re: Amazon
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2021, 11:18:07 AM »
I've avoided Amazon for six years but recently bought loads of computer stuff from them (well not them, some other company through them). In those six years it hasn't been difficult to buy from other suppliers but I do see how ridiculously convenient Amazon is. I mean who needs same day delivery on a mouse mat. Apparently I did when I was offered a free month of Amazon Prime.

Closed the account today.

Re: Amazon
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2021, 01:36:00 PM »
Still use Amazon, still buy petrol from a Shell garage, would still gladly buy albums from a record shop I used to frequent that was owned by a cunt.

I'm sure most businesses are boycott-worthy somewhere down the line if you dig deep enough, so I avoid any potential hypocrisy by not boycotting any of them.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Amazon
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2021, 02:00:42 PM »
I quite like a boycott that requires me to not change my habits in any way. Boycott Soda Stream? Yeah why not, I've sort of been doing that  since the gas ran out in 1993.

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