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March 28, 2024, 07:18:33 PM

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LOKI

Started by Butchers Blind, April 05, 2021, 08:48:03 PM

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Mr_Simnock

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 10, 2021, 09:32:25 AM
I think the TVA are talking a load of crap and it's some kind of trap. There's no sacred timeline bollocks. Probably Kang behind it.

It is absolute bollocks isn't it, the amount of times it contradicted itself was a bit sad. So Loki is told he doesn't have a free will but somehow managed to make a decision that wasn't part of the sacred time line, er, hold on, that shouldn't be possible. If your future is set and on rails then he was meant to do that, apparently the Avengers were meant to give him the tesseract accidentally but his escape (apparently set in stone anyway) did something wrong, so then he can't be tried for a 'crime' as everything was meant to happen, utter garbage. Oh and policing the sacred time line for when something veers of it? You would infinity staff to amend infinity changes, be interesting to see what this bonkers facade really is. Wouldn't surprise me if they have got him to help destroy himself, bet £5 the bloke he is after is himself.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Was anyone else at all distracted by the TVA's holograms of Loki and The Avengers being the actual footage from the films? It seems odd that a bunch of bureaucratic functionaries, who use infinity stones as paperweights, would bother making the camera circle dramatically around The Avengers.

The real world reasons are obvious, but it still took me out of things for a second. No doubt some bunch of filthy nerds are rushing off to Youtube and TV Tropes to speculate with undue certainty about what it means.

Also, the TVA agents are all powerful - as long as they can pull their magic stopwatch out of their pocket in time. We've had watches on wriststraps for dozens, if not hundreds of years and that was without the help of omnipotent creators.

Lord Mandrake

They don't appear to have any ranged weapons either, having to be literally within touching distance to put on the time twister collar.
Spoiler alert
Hence the unit at the end getting roasted.
[close]

With the iconic Avengers pan, can we assume that news teams were on the ground and the TVA used that footage aswell as pov Loki? It's a reach for sure but I can live with it.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Credit where it's due: the image of Loki reacting in slow motion after he was twatted with the time truncheon was highly amusing.

beanheadmcginty

Surprised that people as powerful as they're meant to be didn't have flame retardant armour either.

Lord Mandrake

#35
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on June 10, 2021, 07:45:29 PM
Credit where it's due: the image of Loki reacting in slow motion after he was twatted with the time truncheon was highly amusing.

Yeah, not sure how you get that without Hiddleston at least taking a football or something to the face.


Edit; Apparently he just blew a raspberry.

mothman

I'm no longer really understanding how time travel is meant to work in this. As I understood it, the Avengers couldn't go back in time and change things. So they went back and borrowed the Infinity Stones. Doing so created potential tangent timelines that collapsed back into the prime ("sacred"?!) timeline when they were returned, or something like that.

But what happened with Thanos? An older version of him discovered the Avengers' plan and came forward in time, and then was defeated. So does that mean there's now a timeline where Thanos just vanised and everyone lived happily ever after? Or did the TVA presumably de-rez that one?

And, more importantly, what about Loki? They created a timeline where he escapes after New York, but... that variant then stays in a timeline where he didn't escape and everything proceeded as seen in subsequent MCU films? So briefly there are two Lokis in 2012 before the TVA scoop up the extra one..? We can't be viewing an alternate MCU timeline, because the TVA say there aren't any alternate timelines.

I'm probably overthinking this. But it's a bit cheeky them saying there isn't a multiverse when literally the next(ish) MCU has the word in its title. Unless there won't be a TVA by the time Loki is thrpugh with them!!


beanheadmcginty

Yeah, my assumption is that Loki fucks the TVA right up by the end of this series, which unleashes the multiverse and gives Dr Strange something to deal with in his film.

Hobo

Loki hated the idea of a sacred timeline and manifest destiny, but seemingly accepted it by the end of the episode. That's his grift, he saw his own death and so will be wanting to break this idea of destiny to avoid this fate and remain an immortal 'God'. He either succeeds and multiverses are again possible (evidenced by the upcoming film), or he does his part in stopping alternative versions of himself and is reset back in the prime timeline.

Somehow they want to merge the various films (Xmen, Deadpool, Spidey variants) into the continuity (even if not the same 'universe') so we know that at some point these alternate timelines must exist?

Sorry for incoherence, I'm on a TEAMS seminar about the NEC contracts.

Blumf

Has anyone posited any significance to the blue bubblegum the medieval French girl had? Why leave that as a calling card?

Lord Mandrake

It's
Spoiler alert
Tobias Funke, he must have escaped the Collectors vault during Infinity war.
[close]

The Culture Bunker

I was quite amused they went out of their way to avoid using Robert Redford's likeness when re-using the scene where SHIELD and the Avengers argue over who gets custody of Loki. But I did enjoy the episode - yer man Hiddleston plays the role very well.

letsgobrian

Quote from: Blumf on June 11, 2021, 06:58:39 PM
Has anyone posited any significance to the blue bubblegum the medieval French girl had? Why leave that as a calling card?

I assume at some point we'll see "our" Loki pocket the gum in another timeline  and it'll be the viewer's clue that the "bad" Loki is a future version of this Loki, rather than a seperate variant.

Dr Rock

'Some robots don't know they're robots' - is that going to pay-off later?

Dr Rock

On Loki's file it said 'genderfluid'

Butchers Blind

Enjoyed it even though it was mostly scene setting.  Think the thing with doing time travel as a basis to the story, you have to stick rigidly to your own internal logic of what time travel is and how it works otherwise narratively it quickly falls apart.

Dr Rock

How did Loki know the Avengers used time travel? He says it's because he noticed Tony Stark's cologne on someone who wasn't Iron Man, as they tried to nick the briefcase. Still, quite a good guess.

Chairman Yang

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 12, 2021, 07:59:08 AM
On Loki's file it said 'genderfluid'

Ohhh maybe Loki will do a Doctor Who and we can cast someone much much cheaper for Season 2?

Lord Mandrake

Well Sophia Di Martino is already cast for this series.

Mister Six

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 12, 2021, 11:08:36 AM
How did Loki know the Avengers used time travel? He says it's because he noticed Tony Stark's cologne on someone who wasn't Iron Man, as they tried to nick the briefcase. Still, quite a good guess.

To be fair, he'd just been introduced to a whole department of time travel and told that something happened that knocked him off his timeline. Add to that the two Tony Starks and the possibility that The Avengers were responsible becomes rather more clear.

(But we're they called The Avengers at that point in Loki's personal timeline? And did he call them that first, or did Owen Wilson?)

Quote from: letsgobrian on June 12, 2021, 07:26:13 AM
I assume at some point we'll see "our" Loki pocket the gum in another timeline  and it'll be the viewer's clue that the "bad" Loki is a future version of this Loki, rather than a seperate variant.

Even if he doesn't, it's a simple and effective way to convey that something anachronistic took place, and raises the possibility that the enemy they're seeking isn't a total cunt (and to create a bit of tension over whether Owen Wilson is going to kill the girl).

Could also just be that without it, the scene is just someone saying to Wilson "The baddie killed our men" and Wilson saying "Yes".

mothman

The bubblegum also features in the end credits. So unless they were just really, really pleased with that bit of prop graphic design, suggests it could be significant. In fact...
Spoiler alert
it felt more anime-futuristic than atomic-age-Americana futuristic. More like something you'd see on Guardians of the Galaxy...

So I'm going to make an unlikely prediction. The baddie isn't another/future Loki, that's a red herring. Gonna say it's a... Yondu variant.
[close]

Dr Rock

Quote from: Mister Six on June 12, 2021, 04:17:49 PM
But we're they called The Avengers at that point in Loki's personal timeline?

https://youtu.be/MLDh8146L9M?t=19

Lord Mandrake

Apparently Waldron has also penned the forthcoming Dr Strange 2 from scratch after the original director left, sorry I forget his name. Marvel have given him free reign on story and apparently carte blanche on any contracted actor/marvel property - he has taken over the Russo's role of shaping the MCU at large.

I'm pretty sure we are going to get at least a glimpse of
Spoiler alert
Cap's stone returning adventures post Endgame and maybe clearing up some of that confusion.
[close]

Mister Six


touchingcloth

I liked it when Loki was defanged - all of the "and what sort of mischief is it that you actually get up to?" would make a great series of probing psychoanalysis.

Prediction:
Spoiler alert
the Loki Wilson was speaking to in their final scene when he said that they were hunting him is an illusion, and he escaped in the guise of the TVA woman he attacked.
[close]

Dr Rock

He can't use magic there though?

The TVA seem well-equipped to take down/kidnap human-level variants, and they got Loki pretty easily because he was under-estimating them, but do they never come up against an alien or superhuman who is easily their match and can make them explode by thinking it or something? And does the TVA place negate super-powers as well as magic? What if the variant is as big as Godzilla or Galactus, he wouldn't fit in their rooms?


Some of these questions are probably answered in the comics but I've not read any with them in it.

Lord Mandrake

Thinking about it Kablooie could relate to
Spoiler alert
Kang the Conquerer, usually blue, begins with K, time meddler.
[close]

Mobius saying time moves differently in the TVA brings to mind the quantum realm and the tiny, tiny city briefly spotted.

letsgobrian

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 13, 2021, 04:04:48 AM
Some of these questions are probably answered in the comics but I've not read any with them in it.

The TVA are essentially gag characters. Created in homage to first Judge Dredd (Justice Peace, replaced by the hunters here) and then the comic writer Mark Gruenwald (Mobius).

The Time Keepers were a throwaway cheeky nod to Doctor Who in an Immortus story, who were briefly turned into a mess, before being disposed of in Avengers Forever.

Very few appearances and I'm not sure they'd illuminate things here beyond the concept of the Time Keepers trying to keep the multiverse tidy to ensure their own births (though Avengers Forever retcons that appearance as being a different set of time guardians in disguise...).

On the other hand, Loki Agent of Asgard, that I suspect is a big influence on the plot here.

colacentral

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on June 13, 2021, 08:44:50 AM
Thinking about it Kablooie could relate to
Spoiler alert
Kang the Conquerer, usually blue, begins with K, time meddler.
[close]

Mobius saying time moves differently in the TVA brings to mind the quantum realm and the tiny, tiny city briefly spotted.

I have been thinking that they would build to a take on Avengers Forever* since they introduced time travel, and assumed that's what Kang was being introduced for. But I was wondering if Loki would basically take on the role of Kang and Immortus in that story, ie Loki being both hero and villain depending on which version of him from which era he's appearing. But there's always the possibility that they actually make Loki become Kang somehow (rather than the ridiculously named Iron Lad).

So yeah, I think you might be on the money there. Maybe Ant-Man 3 leads to the origin of the TVA.

touchingcloth

Which ones were Kablooie and Kang? I can't spot either on the cast list.