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March 28, 2024, 10:49:56 PM

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Started by Shoulders?-Stomach!, April 11, 2021, 10:08:38 AM

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Shoulders?-Stomach!

Watched this again for first time in 10 years or so.

Classic early 80s tense splatterfest of science-done-a-wrong paranoia and mega intense neck convulsions and facial expressions to a near perfect synth soundtrack.

Somehow the almost laughably wooden Ralph Wiggum tier delivery of lines in the central performance actually adds to the weirdness rather than detracting from it. I've never seen someone act so badly that it feels like they are overdubbing themselves. The central character is meant to be a confused 'derelict' as they put it, but I'm not sure that moves across to the spying and espionage later in the film. He sure stares good though.

Obviously the famous
Spoiler alert
head exploding
[close]
scene grabs the headlines and latterly the memes, but in my view the ending is the part that endures, because that is one gloriously fucked up piece of carnage that peels off layers of reality until you're standing in a bath of blood, varicose veins and fire.

Takeaway thoughts immediately when the credits roll: '... Jesus...'

sevendaughters

I saw it for the first time recently and thought it was pretty good. The bit that stayed with me is when someone gets torched as they're up against a wall - it looked absolutely amazing. Based on this one watch it is one of my favourite scores, all manipulated source sounds through various tape effects, creating a cool whirlwind of reverbs and delays. I wish there were more films like this - entertaining and not trying to be particularly clever, but certainly not "dumb".

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2021, 10:08:38 AMI've never seen someone act so badly that it feels like they are overdubbing themselves.

Haha, that's brilliant :D

Dusty Substance


Used to sort of consider it the definitive Cronenberg when I first got into horror films but having seen all of of his filmography, it's kind of lower to middling tier.

Sure, it has cinema's greatest exploding head scene, and the finale is pretty great too, but the 80 minutes in between kind of drags.

Feels more like a TV pilot for an X-rated horror series that was never meant to be.

Brundle-Fly

I'll watch anything with Micahel Ironside in it.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2021, 10:08:38 AM
I've never seen someone act so badly that it feels like they are overdubbing themselves.

They probably are, automatic dialogue replacement is standard practice.

I like Scanners, it was probably in my top 3 Cronenbergs until I recently saw Dead Ringers, the other two being Videodrome and The Fly.

More on the exploding head scene, the way they did it was quite primitive in the end:
Quote
The iconic head explosion scene was the product of trial and error, eventually settling on a plaster skull and a gelatin exterior packed with "latex scraps, some wax, and just bits and bobs and a lot of stringy stuff that we figured would fly through the air a little better" as well as "leftover burgers." When other explosive techniques failed to give the desired effect, special effects supervisor Gary Zeller told the crew to roll cameras and get inside the trucks with doors and windows closed; he then lay down behind the dummy and shot it in the back of the head with a shotgun.

Sebastian Cobb


checkoutgirl

It's good but I find Videodrome has had a much longer lasting effect on my subconscious. Ironside is great value in Scanners for sure.

Dead Ringers is excellent!
"I need something to slow everything down"

I think "spider" was the last one of his I saw. It was shortly after seeing possum and they went well together. Really loved it!
Miranda Richardson is heartbreakingly beautiful and really good in it.

I was getting the urge to watch the fly again the other night and I couldn't figure out why and then I remember brundle fly talking to me in the horror thread :D

purlieu

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on April 11, 2021, 04:53:24 PM
They probably are, automatic dialogue replacement is standard practice.
Yeah, pretty much all film dialogue is overdubbed afterwards, for numerous reasons. Of course, once you know this, it's hard to ignore it when you're watching films and single-camera TV dramas.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on April 11, 2021, 04:28:22 PM
I'll watch anything with Micahel Ironside in it.

Ha, yes, he and the supporting cast are really good which unfortunately seems to draw attention to the weak (or at least mistakenly executed) central performance.


mothman

The backstories have always felt a bit disjointed - "Oh, I'm your father by the way and the baddie is your brother, but you don't remember any of that for some reason" - but maybe that's part of the sense of unreality that pervades it.

Dusty Substance

As we're talking about him, and I do love a list, here's my Top Cronenberg films ranked*

1. The Fly
2. The Dead Zone
3. Videodrome
4. Crash
5. A History Of Violence

6. Naked Lunch
7. Dead Ringers
8. Eastern Promises
9. Maps To The Stars (**)
10. The Brood

11. eXistenZ
12. Shivers
13. Scanners
14. Rabid
15. Crimes Of The Future (**)

16. Spider (**)
17. Cosmopolis (**)

* That I've seen - Still missing....
A Dangerous Method
Fast Company
M. Butterfly
Stereo

** Only seen once - Subject to change on a subsequent viewing


Famous Mortimer

I've seen all the Scanners series, and part 3 is really good. Scanner Cop 1 and 2 (part of the series, allegedly) are not so great.

I've only seen a few of his films (Scanners, The Fly, eXistenZ {my favourite}, Videodrome, Spider and A History Of Violence), but I really like the way they all jump straight into the story at the start with no preamble.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I've not watched it in years, but I do remember thinking that, aside from the gore effects, it was mostly cack (particularly the lead actor). Poor acting isn't entirely unusual in Cronenberg's films. I remember the son in A History of Violence being absolutely terrible and even Viggo Mortensen was rather wooden when he was playing mild mannered family man.

Was it ahead of its time/influential? My Youtube feed is currently being inundated with clips of that Invincible show and I'm thinking Scanners was doing superhuman antics with buckets of blood decades ago.

Pink Gregory

I enjoy that there is one and only one type of prop shotgun that is used throughout the whole film.

Dusty Substance

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on April 12, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
Poor acting isn't entirely unusual in Cronenberg's films. I remember the son in A History of Violence being absolutely terrible and even Viggo Mortensen was rather wooden when he was playing mild mannered family man.

I don't get that at all. I thought Viggo was outstanding in both History Of Violence and Eastern Promises. William Hurt got an Oscar nom for his very brief role in HoV, and Ed Harris was awesome.

Cronenberg got incredible performances from Walken in Dead Zone, Goldblum and Davis in The Fly, Irons in Dead Ringers (he won the Oscar the year after but it was suspected he actually kind of won for Dead Rigers), Oliver Reed in The Brood and James Woods in Videodrome.

It was thanks to Cronenberg that I first realised that there was more to Robert Pattinson than teen vampire films, due to his performances in Cosmopolis and Maps To The Stars. Speaking of Maps To The Stars, Julianne Moore is FUCKING AWESOME in that film!

Each to their own, but I really don't get this 'poor acting' thing at all.

I prefer De Palma's the Fury.  I like how it starts with sinister little things, like a nosebleed, then slowly ratchets up the nastiness, saving the best two bits for the bad guys at the end.   There's more emotional involvement with that film too.


Quote from: Dusty Substance on April 12, 2021, 06:47:16 PMEach to their own, but I really don't get this 'poor acting' thing at all.

I agree with what you said, but eXistenZ has got Jude Law in it, if we're starting the other column :D

Sebastian Cobb

I can't remember if I saw eXistenZ before or after stumbling into an already playing Videodrome on Channel 4, but at this point I had no idea who Cronenberg was or that these two films were connected.

The latter resonated with me instantly, I didn't know what it was but I knew I had to find out more about it, and see more things like it, it was dark, gritty and pulpy.

ExistenZ, I found out about the premise first and thought it sounded interesting, but I just found it camp and boring, it was also a bit hazy but also felt a bit polished. The first time I watched it I would've been about 15, literally over half a lifetime ago, so I reappraised it last year hoping I'd grown up and my relationship with both films in general and Cronenberg might result in me taking more away from it... still didn't like it.

Dusty Substance

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on April 12, 2021, 08:16:07 PM
I agree with what you said, but eXistenZ has got Jude Law in it, if we're starting the other column :D

True, he's never been a favourite of mine, but any 'bad' acting in eXistenZ can be eXcuseD by saying it's all part of the game within a game..... within a game? (or is it? OR IS IT?).

Ha! I didn't think of it like that. He's actually playing a really bad LARPer really well :D

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on April 12, 2021, 08:36:48 PMstill didn't like it.

Yeah, I enjoyed the theme and the ideas more than the execution, I think.
Still watchable and enjoyable, which is more than can be said for most films.

phantom_power

Jude Law has turned into a great actor. He was fantastic in The Young Pope and The Third Day and even stuff like AI. Not sure where Existenz falls in his development though

I'll have to take your word for that because if I see he's in something now I just write it off.
What was that film contagion or something where he had to do an Australian accent? Jesus, my fucking mouth fell open when he started speaking, it had to be some sort of prank, see if they could get away with it.

I watched Eastern promises the other night. I hadn't seen that one.
Viggo Mortensen was really good and looked sharp as fuck! Fight scene was great :D

phantom_power

He is fine in Contagion if you take away the accent. He has no problem playing morally ambiguous or downright cuntish characters, which is unusual for his type of actor

greenman

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on April 11, 2021, 05:20:32 PM
I think "spider" was the last one of his I saw. It was shortly after seeing possum and they went well together. Really loved it!
Miranda Richardson is heartbreakingly beautiful and really good in it.

That and Crash I do rate as up there with his best, History of Violence maybe becoming a bit too pulpy at points but he was I think able to make those stories "nicer" than you'd expect.