Disproportionate sentences

[Fambo Number Mive]

I'm not defending stealing from supermarkets, but it's ridiculous that these people even went to prison for what is basically shoplifting on a large scale, let alone got 42 months. It's not like they stole from a small business either, £160k worth of thefts won't affect Asda that much, surely.

Again, I would never shoplift and I am not defending what these men did, but given how people can do terrible things and only get suspended sentences, how is this justice? Imagine how much it will cost the public to keep these people locked up for 42 months in our overcrowded prisons. Won't these people just come out even more hardened? A criminal conviction will make it harder for them to find a job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-56743693

Another case is the Millennium Dome raid. It's laughable how much police time and effort was invested in preventing the robbery of a big diamond when you consider how stretched the police are:

The precautions taken by the Flying Squad included replacing the priceless gems with replicas of the same size, allowing the originals to be stored elsewhere, as well as installing a false wall inside the exhibit room, behind which 20 police were waiting in full tactical gear

Really does show how the justice system cares more about protecting the rich than ordinary people. People got 15 years for trying to steal a big diamond. How does that help? Who cares if that big diamond was stolen, when you consider how people get far less for far worse crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome_raid#Trial

I suppose more people aren't angry about this because our whole culture is about praising the wealthy and making people think they might be wealthy one day.

From the National Lottery to reality shows looking at the super-rich, we're told we might be wealthy and that wealthy people are better than us. We must defend the super-rich because they create jobs while poor people are to blame for being poor, is the message sent out.

[bgmnts]

I mean I cant say i'd never shoplift as I've been desperate and hungry enough to have to but i'm sure it'd be easy to justify it when you think yeah its a drop in the ocean for a huge disgusting corporation like ASDA.

But yeah, just another example of a shitty society wielding a shitty justice system.

[Butchers Blind]

In fairness it wasn't tryng to feed themselves shoplifting, it was organised with the intent of selling on. Proper crims.

[steve98]

"They traveled here [From Romania] with the sole intention of committing crime." So fuck 'em.

[bgmnts]

In fairness it wasn't tryng to feed themselves shoplifting, it was organised with the intent of selling on. Proper crims.

Sorry yeah I was just coming at shoplifting from my own point of view.

As far as i'm concerned, if a group of lads were nicking stuff to sell on much cheaper, then fuck it I dont care. Absolutely nothing compared to the financial crime higher ups get away with on the daily.

[Icehaven]

When I had a holiday job in Safeway we were told to let certain known shoplifters get away with it as the fuss they kicked up when they were apprehended wasn't apparently worth the bother. They'd previously claimed they'd been assaulted by the guards, threatened to sue and made a huge scene, so we were told when they kicked packets of nappies under the checkout or hid joints of meat in their bags or trollies to just let them do it. I expect it was the guards just not wanting the hassle. 

[Sebastian Cobb]

In fairness it wasn't tryng to feed themselves shoplifting, it was organised with the intent of selling on. Proper crims.

Still morally less bad than supermarket chains.

[Paul Calf]

Detectives examined CCTV footage, number plate recognition and credit card data which led them to a house in Oldham.

Silly criminals didn't realise that you don't have to pay for stuff if you've nicked it.

[Endicott]

Used their own car too, without sorting out replacement plates! More or less caught themselves.

[JamesTC]

How exactly are sentences determined? I assume each judge decides what is relevant within a particular minimum or maximum time.

They've surely already studied rehabilitation and re-offending rates to determine the optimum time in prison so why not use that rather than leaving it to judges to decide in each individual case.

[JaDanketies]

I think the Millennium Dome heist had an implicit threat of violence about it, if I remember the documentary. So that escalates it to a robbery.

The function of that police action, those interventions in central America and the middle-east. The function is system sustaining, it is to contain that overall system, and you don't look at the particular cost. I could demonstrate to you that every single bank robbery, that in every single case, practically. The cost of the police was more than the actually money that robbers took from the bank. Does that mean OH you see there's no really no economic interest involved then. They're not protecting the banks, the police are just doing this because they're on a power trip, or they're macho, or ah they're control freaks, that's why they do it. NO of course it's an economic, of course they're defending the banks, of course, because if they didn't stop that bank robbery, regardless of the cost, this could jeopardize the entire banking system. You see there are people who believe the function of the police is to fight crime, and that's not true, the function of the police is social control and protection of property.

maybe if you didn't throw the book at the Millennium Dome heist people, or these shoplifters, then we'd all be at it. Steal a diamond worth millions and the biggest risk is a rehabilitation order? Makes it seem a lot more worthwhile.

I guess in relation to OP, I've shoplifted more times that I can remember, and only ever for the thrill of it. I wouldn't do it now because I've got a kid and the social might get involved if I got busted.

[imitationleather]

How exactly are sentences determined? I assume each judge decides what is relevant within a particular minimum or maximum time.

There's sentencing guidelines depending on the specifics of the case and how serious it is.

Sometimes I like to look them up on the internet and pretend I am Judge Rinder.

[BlodwynPig]

I stole a big diamond from Fine-Fare in '82. Got off Scott free after I pointed out the owner had himself stolen it from subterranean Botswana causing the death of hundreds of natives and several large, endangered animals. Judge was appalled at that news and quite rightly gave me a medal.

[madhair60]

How exactly are sentences determined?

D20

[chveik]

I'm not defending stealing from supermarkets

it's a victimless crime who cares

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

They should just let them off and tell them not to do it again.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

I thought this thread was about my posts

[rue the polywhirl]

Can't see how it's ridiculous that people who steal 160k worth of stuff get sentenced to prison. Disproportionate OPs?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Det Con Paul Matchett said it was clear the men "travelled to the UK with the sole intention of committing crime".

He said they "set up their base in Oldham" and believed they could "evade justice by spreading their crimes across the country in a bid to keep a low profile."

It worked the last 80 times I suppose.

That averages out at 2k worth of stolen goods on each raid though... Quite impressive to be taking that volume of stuff from ASDA and so on

[kittens]

it is morally correct to steal from supermarkets. i applaud these enterprising gentlemen. the only reason i do not do it myself is because society has drilled a hole in my skull through which they whisper fears of reprisal which embed themselves irrevocably in my soft brains.

[imitationleather]

Also no wants to see a crying thirtysomething in loud clothes and a cap being marched into the manager's office by security.

[Icehaven]

I stole a birthday card from Asda last year. It was in the bottom of the trolley and I forgot about it when I was scanning and bagging the shopping, but when I was putting the trolley back in the trolley bay thing outside, there it was. I should have taken it back in or left it but I just thought 'fuck it, they're overpriced anyway' and popped it in one of my bags. No regrets, I'd do it again.

[Icehaven]

I'm not defending stealing from supermarkets, but it's ridiculous that these people even went to prison for what is basically shoplifting on a large scale, let alone got 42 months. It's not like they stole from a small business either, £160k worth of thefts won't affect Asda that much, surely.

Again, I would never shoplift and I am not defending what these men did, but given how people can do terrible things and only get suspended sentences, how is this justice? Imagine how much it will cost the public to keep these people locked up for 42 months in our overcrowded prisons. Won't these people just come out even more hardened? A criminal conviction will make it harder for them to find a job.

Bear in mind they'll only serve half their sentences in prison, so they'll actually serve less than 2 years, and they could be released on tag even before that (there's also a new GPS tag trial going on at the moment which has seen some non-violent offenders released early). Then depending on their immigration status if they're entitled to stay in the UK they'll be on released on licence which will last the second half of their sentence, or if they're not they'll be deported on release. I've known at least two prisoners that this happened to that hadn't lived in or even visited their country of origin for decades, I think they'd rather have stayed in prison in the UK

[JaDanketies]

First time I deliberately shoplifted was when I got to the self-service counters buying two of them cupcake oven dishes and one of them didn't have a barcode on it. In retrospect I could've quite easily scanned the one that did have a barcode on twice and put the unbarcoded one in the bagging area first. But at the decisive moment, shoplifting it felt like the only option.

The Duty Free lounge at the airport is ridiculously easy to shoplift from. Once I stole a bottle of vodka and then was a little bit nervous that I'd get arrested on returning to England for the rest of the holiday. Because they force all passengers to walk through Duty Free at my local airport, it feels like it's easy to say "oh I just picked up this bottle and left the shop without even thinking about it," but the staff monitoring Duty Free are just looking for rich folks to sell cigars and perfume to, they're not looking for people pocketing 250mls of spirits. I think I've shoplifted from Duty Free so often because I hate the whole process of getting a flight, so I used to try to take benzos when I get the opportunity to, and they make me a dickhead klepto.

Dumbest though was when I was drunk and on benzos and I stumbled into Tesco, grabbed a Get Out DVD, and then waltzed out again with the alarms going off. I think I might have gone to Tesco with the explicit intention of shoplifting something. It was about midnight and they were on a skeleton staff so there was no security. I need to visit that Tesco regularly, too. Being banned from it would be a nightmare.

My shithead ex once didn't pay her taxi fare and that led to my house getting blacklisted by the local taxi firm. I expected her to rectify the situation and encouraged her to do so but she never did. I kinda still feel a little bit guilty, because I know that the free journey came out of the taxi driver's pocket. I guess I feel responsible cos pretty much all of her expenses eventually came out of my pocket anyway. I'd make it right but I really don't want to have anything to do with her any more, let alone her debts.

Even lower than that, once I was very very poor - I remember my food budget was £1 a day. I went to Barclays and they had one of them coin machines. A guy put in a bunch of pound coins and then didn't check the tray at the bottom. He turned and left, and I swooped in and took about £5 from the coin return tray. I could've hollered at him, but I didn't. What's especially shitty about this is that the guy I stole £5 from was probably also very poor. And while I was very poor, this was my fault, as I could've quite easily called up my dad and he would've given me £100 that day no bother. So I stole £5 from a poor person because I was too proud to ask my dad for help.

[idunnosomename]

I've put leeks over the self-service scale with the full knowledge their full weight is not being conveyed on to it because of their length

[Icehaven]

How are you people stealing from self-service checkouts without sending the scale in the bagging area haywire? If I so much as put an empty carrier bag on it it starts having a paddy and calling for assistance, how are you pilfering oven dishes and parts of leeks?

[checkoutgirl]

42 months. It's not like they stole from a small business either, £160k worth of thefts won't affect Asda that much, surely.

If some white collar guy stole hundreds of thousands by fraud or that I'd probably be happy with 42 months so what's good for the goose. What's more annoying is when people scam millions and get away with and some unfortunate black lad in America steals a garden hose and gets 20 years. I was reading about Arthur Lee of the band Love, he got 5 years for discharging a firearm and it wasn't even him that did it. If you get 42 months for over a hundred grand of shoplifting, that's a lot of theft.

If you don't get a custodial sentence for that then you're almost arguing for jail just to be for violence of various types which might be a valid one. Jail seems to be mainly to protect the assets of the rich and the police are the physical manifestation of that societal will to keep poor people controlled and in their place.

I wouldn't be surprised if most laws for theft were initiated by people with a lot of shit they don't want stolen. Then again if you have a car or stuff like that and someone stole that shit on you would it be so wrong to want them in jail? I dunno.

[JaDanketies]

How are you people stealing from self-service checkouts without sending the scale in the bagging area haywire? If I so much as put an empty carrier bag on it it starts having a paddy and calling for assistance, how are you pilfering oven dishes and parts of leeks?

I believe I left the oven dish until last and then just put it straight in the trolley, bypassing the bagging area entirely.

[Icehaven]

Then again if you have a car or stuff like that and someone stole that shit on you would it be so wrong to want them in jail? I dunno.

A few years ago my Mum, in her late 70s at the time, woke up to find she'd been burgled. The thief/thieves had even been in her bedroom and stolen jewellery out of drawers and her mobile from her bedside table while she was right there asleep. They took a lot as well, the TV, laptop, mobile, handbag, jewellery (none of it worth much so ha), DVDs, even a lottery ticket that had a £75 win on it (they must have found it in a drawer and correctly deducted that she was keeping it for a reason) so it wasn't a quick smash n grab. The police said it was unusual for thieves to break in when someone's home and even more so to go into an occupied bedroom, but nearly every time I've told anyone about it they've said they know of someone who it's happened to as well, so it's not that fucking unusual. Also I think the thieves knew her, so knew it was an older woman that lived alone there so if she woke up they'd just scarper, it wasn't as if she was going to rugby tackle them.

The thought of someone breaking in, creeping around her flat, walking around her fucking bedroom while she was sleeping right there, is absolutely horrifying and although they probably would have just run off it's still hard not to consider what could have happened. It was probably an addict, and almost definitely someone whose life is already a total shitshow, and while it was massively inconvenient and expensive having to replace the essentials before the insurance came through and she lost several things of sentimental value, it's still just stuff and she wasn't hurt. But despite that, and even though I work in a clink myself and have seen the negative impact imprisonment can have I find it very, very difficult to be objective and not wish they'd got ten years. Obviously this is why victims and their families don't do the sentencing.