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What is indigenous white British culture?

Started by Chedney Honks, April 14, 2021, 12:48:35 PM

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The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2021, 02:11:59 PMBut if that was all that was needed, the US wouldn't be so  full of people trying to claim they were anything but American. They take their heritage, whether it is German, Polish, Chinese, Irish, Mexican, etc and cling to it like a little baby.
Very rare to ever hear of someone from over there describing themselves as "English-American", though. Presumably because we were the enemy back in the day.

I'm not sure the reasons why they all like to tell themselves they are Irish, Italian, Polish or whatever. Perhaps America is too huge to have a unifying national identity beyond the flag? Maybe people are just lonely and want to be part of something: "Yes, I am Belarusian-American. Pass me some clogs and let's have a square dance."

Inspector Norse

Quote from: Thomas on April 14, 2021, 01:25:14 PM
After several years away, the only things I miss are the few perfect square miles of peaceful village, forest, 'n' countryside where I used to live - though I'm sure all European countries have their near-precise equivalent locales.

Also Caramacs and the time I saw a Morris dancer in blackface on the bus to Derby.

There are certainly things I miss about the UK but not sure how many of them could be described as "indigenous white British culture". I miss the landscape and our particular attachment to it, but is that a consideration of yer average beer-bellied skinhead Millwall fan?
Likewise I miss proper curries but is that something Jacob Rees-Mogg thinks of when proudly polishing his flagpole?

I miss a lot of the historical stuff about my own country, I can spend hours browsing The London Companion and finding out what some 15th-century bloke did on a particular street once[nb]you can guess the answer from the name Gropecunt Lane[/nb], but again it's not really "indigenous culture" is it?

I think it's natural to feel strongly about the place and culture in which you were brought up, but that's usually a chaotic hodgepodge of things anyway.

bgmnts

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2021, 02:11:59 PM
The USA is an interesting case study about how to shore up your identity.

There are some basic abstract concepts and symbolism representing the US, and the basic shitty idea that 'Fuck you, we are USA, I haven't looked into it properly but this means we are the best and you suck'.

But if that was all that was needed, the US wouldn't be so  full of people trying to claim they were anything but American. They take their heritage, whether it is German, Polish, Chinese, Irish, Mexican, etc and cling to it like a little baby. There are people Live Action Role Playing being Irish or German, not actually being either. There are Czechs in Texas that think dressing up and eating the same food and having traditional dances means they are Czech. Fuck off. Having a heritage and enjoying that from time to time is fine, but trying to exist through it and defining yourself around it every single day of your life when you're American and your parents are American is exposing a hollow reality and that needs concealing.

Why do they do that? What is absent about America that they need to shore things up in this way?

Not that I wish to single the US out here. A lot of newly independent states were under imperial rule for so long that their own nationalism takes on some rather alarming and disingenuously phoney elements too. Yugoslavia 'a multi ethnic multi race multi faith brotherhood working for a common betterment', is far more desirable than Serbia's 'we define ourselves by our devotion to god and being on the historic front line against the Muslim hordes'.

I suppose whatever the fuck it is, it all comes back to a yearning for the roaring hearth, song, dance, stories, belonging, purpose, etc.

Probably because America was built on slavery and imperialism fairly recently, yet was also founded on freedom and equality, its a bit of a cognitive dissonance so its probably easier to trace back your lineage?

Probably why there is a black culture in America but no white culture, black African-Americans do not know their roots or lineage so created their own culture. Whites did not.

Blue Jam


Video Game Fan 2000

The notion that abstract things like nations, towns and geographical regions need a 'culture' or 'identity' is an American trap don't do it. Its the carrot to austerity's stick.

Blue Jam

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 14, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Very rare to ever hear of someone from over there describing themselves as "English-American", though. Presumably because we were the enemy back in the day.

I'm not sure the reasons why they all like to tell themselves they are Irish, Italian, Polish or whatever. Perhaps America is too huge to have a unifying national identity beyond the flag? Maybe people are just lonely and want to be part of something: "Yes, I am Belarusian-American. Pass me some clogs and let's have a square dance."

Just the other day I was wondering why Americans seem to have no idea where Wales is or that it even exists, and Mr Jam suggested it's because there are relatively few famous Welsh-Americans, or famlous people people describing themselves as such. I looked this up and while there are lots of Americans who can claim distant Welsh ancestry, like Barack Obama and Jeffrey Dahmer, it looks like the most famous ones with nearer Welsh relatives are Quincy Jones, Leslie Nielsen and Bob Hope. So yes, not very many. Maybe there's something in this.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Drawing men with big cocks on hillsides for a laugh.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Blue Jam on April 14, 2021, 02:49:03 PM
Just the other day I was wondering why Americans seem to have no idea where Wales is or that it even exists, and Mr Jam suggested it's because there are relatively few famous Welsh-Americans, or famlous people people describing themselves as such. I looked this up and while there are lots of Americans who can claim distant Welsh ancestry, like Barack Obama and Jeffrey Dahmer, it looks like the most famous ones with nearer Welsh relatives are Quincy Jones, Leslie Nielsen and Bob Hope. So yes, not very many. Maybe there's something in this.
Leslie Nielsen was Canadian rather than American, but I wonder if his family background inspired the line in Naked Gun:

Vincent Ludwig: (offering cigar) Cuban?
Frank: No, Dutch-Irish. My father was from Wales.

Though apparently it was his mother who was Welsh.

Ferris

I'd tell you but these days they'd throw me in jail.

Blue Jam

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 14, 2021, 02:54:34 PM
Leslie Nielsen was Canadian rather than American, but I wonder if his family background inspired the line in Naked Gun:

Vincent Ludwig: (offering cigar) Cuban?
Frank: No, Dutch-Irish. My father was from Wales.

Though apparently it was his mother who was Welsh.

Wikipedia has him in their list of Welsh-Americans and they have him down as Canadian-American but he was Canadian-born, you are quite right. Canadian-American-Welsh then. Does that still count?

idunnosomename

a tory kicking you in the balls and laughing over and over

Ferris

Quote from: Blue Jam on April 14, 2021, 03:04:11 PM
Wikipedia has him in their list of Welsh-Americans and they have him down as Canadian-American but he was Canadian-born, you are quite right. Canadian-American-Welsh then. Does that still count?

Canadian culture largely consists of reminding the world you/some celebrities aren't American so this seems about right.

(Hey Jim Carrey is from southern Ontario did you know? Did you did you did you huh huh huh?)




Ferris

To answer seriously: football & (Going To) The Pub

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on April 14, 2021, 03:09:32 PM
Canadian culture largely consists of reminding the world you/some celebrities aren't American so this seems about right.

(Hey Jim Carrey is from southern Ontario did you know? Did you did you did you huh huh huh?)

If they didn't want people mistaking them for Americans maybe they should have developed a more unique accent. Canadian just sounds like American with a few strange vowel sounds thrown in.


thenoise

Ironically, one of the things I associate with the British (white or otherwise) is an exaggerated praise of everything exotic/foreign - food, fashion, lifestyle, religion,etc - and a pathological contempt for everything home grown. I guess the Brexit crowd is a reaction against this, but even so, there does seem to be a section of society desperate for something to be proud of about Britishness, but absolutely no idea what it might be.

Ferris

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on April 14, 2021, 03:12:46 PM
If they didn't want people mistaking them for Americans maybe they should have developed a more unique accent. Canadian just sounds like American with a few strange vowel sounds thrown in.

I could answer that seriously but I'm already conscious of derailing, and it's not worth a thread just to hear "Ferris Presents: What I Have Learned At University".

Quote from: popcorn on April 14, 2021, 03:13:38 PM
???????

I'm trying to think of things that are unique to the UK, but also ubiquitous among the member nations.

Self-deprecating humour I suppose? Electing absolute cretins would be another.


Ferris

Rigidly-enforced class system that everyone is completely fine with for some reason, there's another.


touchingcloth


Blue Jam

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on April 14, 2021, 03:09:32 PM
Canadian culture largely consists of reminding the world you/some celebrities aren't American so this seems about right.

I thought Canadian culture was all about reminding people that you yourself are not American ;)

Same as us Welsh borders peeps reminding people that we're not English I guess.

Ferris


Blue Jam


Ferris

What's that sport with the hammers and wooden balls and horses? Polo?

Also what's the sport with the hammers and the wooden balls and lawns? Croquet?

So I suppose hammers and wooden balls used in a competitive manner, and horses/lawns are incidental.

Blue Jam

Polo is from Iran. Also I think Ralph Lauren is American.

I'd say snooker and IPAs, but they're British-Indian aren't they?

I'd say they're the only two good things to have come out of the British Empire but I don't like IPAs.

JaDanketies

Quote from: Blue Jam on April 14, 2021, 03:41:12 PM
Spanking.

hmm, I think you might be on to something there. bdsm definitely. Sexual depravity behind closed curtains.