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Excerpts from Burchill's book (it's as unhinged as it is antisemitic)

Started by Sebastian Cobb, April 16, 2021, 12:16:09 PM

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bgmnts

Quote from: willbo on April 16, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
I thought she was "rabidly" pro Israel and anti Palestine in the 00s?

Being pro-Israel definitely doesnt make you pro-Jew and vice versa.

Kankurette

This. A lot of Christian Zionists are raging antisemites.

Also, unrelated but Burchill said this about Thatcher at some point:
QuoteOf course the lady had her faults. She wasn't uncaring and cruel, as the liberals made out, but she was naive. She simply couldn't comprehend how absolutely useless, helpless and hopeless quite a lot of people are, often through no fault of their own, and was cursed with an almost surreal optimism and romanticism regarding the capabilities of the individual. If she kicked away the crutches, it wasn't for pleasure or profit — but because she genuinely believed that everyone had the ability to walk without them.
Where do we even begin.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Endicott on April 17, 2021, 12:22:56 PM
She still is. The point here is she is so ignorant that in her writings she is accidentally anti-semetic almost every other sentence.
Yeah, she says things that she thinks are in praise of Jewish people and how amazing they are as an ethnic/religious group but that sound incredibly fetishistic coming from a former Gentile, and almost identical to what an antisemite would say. Whereas if someone like Mel Brooks said them you would read it as ahh, this is an inside joke for other Jewish people.

greenman

Quote from: Kankurette on April 17, 2021, 01:32:48 PM
This. A lot of Christian Zionists are raging antisemites.

Also, unrelated but Burchill said this about Thatcher at some point:Where do we even begin.

By correcting the funereal arrangements for Maggie?




Kankurette

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on April 17, 2021, 02:59:26 PM
Yeah, she says things that she thinks are in praise of Jewish people and how amazing they are as an ethnic/religious group but that sound incredibly fetishistic coming from a former Gentile, and almost identical to what an antisemite would say. Whereas if someone like Mel Brooks said them you would read it as ahh, this is an inside joke for other Jewish people.
Not 'former'. She IS a Gentile. She never converted and never will, and I believe she's a Christian pastor now.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Kankurette on April 17, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Not 'former'. She IS a Gentile. She never converted and never will, and I believe she's a Christian pastor now.
oh, that's much worse

Kankurette

Like I said elsewhere, she was converting at a Liberal synagogue but ragequit because the rabbi was too nice to Muslims. She's never bothered since.

jobotic

Yes, in her mind Jews hate Muslims so can she use them to justify her racism.

Or it's all a game, I don't know. Imagine having to be as disgusting as you possibly can every day just to be noticed.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

I was laughing earlier but now I feel fucking dirty. "could I pass as a Jew???" GRODY.

Kankurette

Not having a go at you, or my brother, but this is one reason why I really hate Burchill: because her swanning around going on about how much she loves Judaism and Israel makes people genuinely believe she's Jewish, and it provides fuel for antisemites and/or people who think we're all raging hardcore Zionists who cheer when Palestinians get blown up or shot or have their houses demolished, and hate anyone who isn't Jewish, because hey, Burchill's like that and she thinks all Jews are, or at least should be. The stereotype of Jews she peddles is very harmful.

I wonder if it's part of some long game she's playing to get people to hate us.

Buelligan

I thought she was Jewish (in the past), I think because I read somewhere of her talking about converting (so assumed that she'd continued and converted).  Did that colour my feelings about Jewish people?  No, not at all.  That would be like deciding all French people were cunts on the strength of Marine le Pen or all historians (David fucking Starkey). 

Kankurette

She never completed her conversion.

I'm not coming across very well, I know. It's hard to articulate why what Burchill is doing is dangerous and makes me uneasy. I do know other Jews have called her on it.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Kankurette on April 18, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
She never completed her conversion.

I'm not coming across very well, I know. It's hard to articulate why what Burchill is doing is dangerous and makes me uneasy.

What you're saying is clear enough to me. She's acting as a gatekeeper and a fraudulent one at that.

Kankurette

Yes. I mean, it's one thing when Jews gatekeep Jewish identity. It's another when it's someone who ISN'T Jewish doing it.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

oh god no everything is so much worse now

wrapping herself in a "Jewish" flag my skin is crawling

I'm not doing a bit or trying to be funny I'm having a physical reaction now

fetishism is so much worse than the zealotry of a new convert (which is at least understandable)

all the baths

scalding hot

Buelligan

Quote from: Kankurette on April 18, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
She never completed her conversion.

I'm not coming across very well, I know. It's hard to articulate why what Burchill is doing is dangerous and makes me uneasy. I do know other Jews have called her on it.

Yes, I realise that and what you're saying is completely clear to me.  I really hope the vast majority of humans do not judge groups of humanity on the basis of one or two mad individuals who may or may not be part of those groups. 

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2021, 06:31:01 PM
Yes, I realise that and what you're saying is completely clear to me.  I really hope the vast majority of humans do not judge groups of humanity on the basis of one or two mad individuals who may or may not be part of those groups.

That's not the issue, though, which is that she is influencing what is considered to be acceptable discourse by completely fraudulent means.

bgmnts

Surely on the fringiest of cunts are listening to this twat?

Johnny Yesno

I mention this as it's related:

I know a Labour member who has had attempts made to get them sacked from their day job for antisemitism. The member is Jewish and left wing. I always assumed their accuser was Jewish but a look at the accuser's twitter profile tells me they are an 'ally'. This is the unseemly place we're at now and I find the distorting effect on the discourse extremely worrying.

Buelligan

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on April 18, 2021, 06:33:14 PM
That's not the issue, though, which is that she is influencing what is considered to be acceptable discourse by completely fraudulent means.

I didn't get that from what Kankurette said, so I obviously didn't understand. 

I didn't even get Burchill influencing "acceptable" discourse from what I read Burchill wrote. 

I just got that Burchill behaving like a monster whilst banging on about Jewishness all the time might make people think that all or most Jews are like Burchill (which, hopefully, will not happen and it would be quite mad if it did).

Kankurette

More that she's perpetuating a lot of negative stereotypes about us.

Buelligan

Indeed but hopefully, most will see her as an individual who is unpleasant and deranged (rather than an example of womanhood, a Jew, a gentile or even one of the dreadful English).

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on April 18, 2021, 06:39:06 PM
I mention this as it's related:

I know a Labour member who has had attempts made to get them sacked from their day job for antisemitism. The member is Jewish and left wing. I always assumed their accuser was Jewish but a look at the accuser's twitter profile tells me they are an 'ally'. This is the unseemly place we're at now and I find the distorting effect on the discourse extremely worrying.

I agree, it is extremely worrying.  I think (obviously) there are real antisemitic things happening in the world and there are also people who are using antisemitism as a weapon.  We're at a point now where to even say that can be dangerous.  People like Burchill are part of the reason it's becoming increasingly impossible to even talk about it, I'd agree.  My feeling is the only way forward is to continue, quietly and reasonably, speaking the truth.  Speak out against antisemitism, speak out against lies.  Don't be intimidated into silence, always tell the truth (though I recognise this may result in personal loss one way or another). 

the ouch cube

Quote from: bgmnts on April 18, 2021, 06:35:00 PM
Surely on the fringiest of cunts are listening to this twat?

This is a big part of the problem with her - she has lots of friends in the media who think of her as an entertaining dinner party person, and many of them consider themselves sensible liberal guardians of moderation, etc. They defend her either by conveniently ignoring her outbursts, or simply by going down the "don't slag off my friend you awful little non-media prole" route.

She's not like Littlejohn, skulking in his Florida mansion, or Quentin Letts, who only associates with fellow Tories. She benefits hugely from surrounding herself with people who 'seem' like they'd have nothing to do with her, but do.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2021, 06:49:09 PM
I agree, it is extremely worrying.  I think (obviously) there are real antisemitic things happening in the world and there are also people who are using antisemitism as a weapon.  We're at a point now where to even say that can be dangerous.  People like Burchill are part of the reason it's becoming increasingly impossible to even talk about it, I'd agree.  My feeling is the only way forward is to continue, quietly and reasonably, speaking the truth.  Speak out against antisemitism, speak out against lies.  Don't be intimidated into silence, always tell the truth (though I recognise this may result in personal loss one way or another).

The thing is, the accuser might not even be aware of the accused's ethnicity. I've met the accuser and they are really fucking rude and ignorant, your typical bull in a china shop. If you're a lefty and secular, the existence of the likes of redwatch might make you decide on balance that it's not worth it to have a star in your twitter profile let alone wrap yourself in a flag.

Burchill's input contributes to the false narrative that Jewish people unfailingly wear their ethnicity on their sleeves, and I believe this false narrative has made it easier to kick Jewish lefties out of Labour for antisemitism.

Buelligan

I don't know.  I imagine, if you don't know any Jewish people it might be different.  I find the whole thing extremely weird.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Buelligan on April 18, 2021, 07:12:00 PM
I don't know.  I imagine, if you don't know any Jewish people it might be different.  I find the whole thing extremely weird.

It is weird but if you only know right wingers or so-called 'centrists', you get a different filter.

Mister Six

Quote from: Kankurette on April 18, 2021, 02:36:27 PM
I wonder if it's part of some long game she's playing to get people to hate us.

Julie Burchill weaponising her awfulness, attaching herself to people and groups she wants to destroy may having them become toxic by association, is a funny idea but credits her with too much self-awareness.

sevendaughters

I have a couple of books published by Unbound (both by Jonathan Meades, who is a contrarian but at least one who makes sense and isn't racist) but having delved through some of their publications (which are fan-funded, partly) there is more than a whiff of dogwhistly bollocks about it all, so no more.