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Dawn of the Dead (1978)

Started by Chedney Honks, April 17, 2021, 11:34:33 AM

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Chedney Honks

It's a film I've seen a couple of times previously (probably 25 years ago and 15 years ago) and enjoyed to a degree without remembering too much about it. I waited eagerly for the 4K UHD release but only just got around to watching it last night. Having recently watched Night of the Living Dead, which I thought was tremendous, lean, tense, atmospheric, bleak, with some great characters, I was really looking forward to rediscovering this, the pinnacle of the genre. Unfortunately, it didn't do much for me at all.

For starters, I couldn't follow or understand what the characters were doing or why. Things seem to happen simply to allow some fuck up but none of it makes sense to me. There's a scene where they take two trucks out and the other guy follows them with the helicopter. I didn't understand what was happening there at all. One of them drops his bag so he drops down into a load of zombies to try and recover it. Just fuck it off. Why waste the fuel for the helicopter? What were they trying to achieve at all there? The scene where the guy is in the wheelbarrow. It's obviously a shit plan. Why do they take the car? Leaving the woman without a gun.

I enjoyed the music and some dialogue and some of the action but the events of the plotting were distracting in how illogical they were. I'm not saying hur hur hurrr and I can suspend disbelief that characters in horror movies do silly things to heighten the tension but it seemed so rambling and purposeless.

Anyone want to explain why I'm an idiot?

BlodwynPig


Chedney Honks

I had to press Post because I was getting in the bath. To be transparent, I actually turned it off after an hour or so so I will finish it and come back to the thread. I know it's daft to make an assessment from only half the film but I wouldn't have been able to pause Night Of, to put it that way.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

It's one of the most over rated films I've ever seen.

lipsink

Haven't seen it in a while but don't they drive the buses and park them next to the entrances of the mall so the zombies can't get in?

Dawn of The Dead probably hasn't aged as well as Night of the Living Dead but I still absolutely love it.

Avril Lavigne

It's a movie I love but I've never really enjoyed it for the plot. I couldn't even tell you what happens point-by-point. I just love the atmosphere, music, setting, slow pace and the creeping dread. For me the zombos in Dawn remain the definitive take, even though they're so clearly low-budget and in a lot of cases just regular-looking extras in blue face paint. I guess that stylistic touch makes them more visually striking and memorable than a lot of later, more realistic takes on the living dead. Day of the Dead is better though, in most respects.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Shaun of the Dead is better in most respects.


El Unicornio, mang


petercussing

They are securing the doors with those trucks to stop there being enough zombs in front of the doors to collectively push them in. They are being shadowed by the copter man cos he's looking out for the zombies for them when they are far off by the trucks out of sight of the lady, and presumably they went to the trucks in the first place in the chopper as they can't exactly walk out there, plus they can escape in the choplifter if they get stuck. The lady is on the roof shooting at the zombies and spotting them nearby. Simple plan and obvious, man.

Also, bear in mind the folks haven't slept properly, are terrified of getting attacked at any minute and have no idea how safe they are AND are dealing with a hideous pandemic. I mean, imagine if when dudes got covid they immediately went seeking out other people to infect and you never got better, coupled with the government losing all semblance of control. Everyone's lost their fucking minds right now let alone that happening.

Also, it's awesome, no way is Day or Night better, Night is far more hokey 60s horror and has aged worse imo and Shaun hasn't held my imagination in the same way this does, which is more damning as it had the advantage of all of what Dawn set up to work with, plus being directly relevant to me as a Britisher. I think it does help if you saw it as a teen and also if you saw it before the idea got absolutely rinsed to fuck by everybody from the Dawn remake/Shaun era onwards and lots of the dialogue is pish.

For all the dumb bleating about it being painfully obvious metaphor on the evils of consumerism it's a really fucking good illustration of how empty it is and how miserable it makes you and also Satres point about hell being trapped with a group of other people you know with no avenue to meet anyone else.

Also, it's fine not to like it

mothman

I've never seen the Z*** S***** remake, should I?

Egyptian Feast

It's alright. The first time I watched it I was pleasantly surprised, but it wasn't as good the second time. Probably the best film of his I've seen (haven't watched anything after Watchmen).

Egyptian Feast

Quote from: petercussing on April 17, 2021, 12:53:31 PM
I think it does help if you saw it as a teen and also if you saw it before the idea got absolutely rinsed to fuck by everybody from the Dawn remake/Shaun era onwards and lots of the dialogue is pish.

I first saw it and Suspiria (in heavily BBFC-censored versions) on the same night when I was thirteen and both inspired me to such an extent I am completely blind to their failings. This is possibly the reason I like the Cannes version of Dawn best, though many fans prefer the tighter edits. Which reminds me, I've yet to see the even longer version. I bet I'll love it.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

A recent thread of people spunking themselves silly over it (and me being the voice of reason).

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,83207.0.html

madhair60


greenman

#15
Quote from: petercussing on April 17, 2021, 12:53:31 PMFor all the dumb bleating about it being painfully obvious metaphor on the evils of consumerism it's a really fucking good illustration of how empty it is and how miserable it makes you and also Satres point about hell being trapped with a group of other people you know with no avenue to meet anyone else.

Yeah that's really films main strength for me, it might be an obvious idea but its I think fleshed out well beyond just an idea and you get I think a very nice sense both the desireto build up this safe little world and how listless and empty it becomes.

The sense that personal safety and comfort don't cover from the loss of society as a whole.

Chedney Honks

Yeah, that's definitely a point which resonates pretty quickly, very well done and bleak. Their excitement at having access to a load of shit but nothing else rang so hollow and made me feel a bit sad.

Apologies I'm a thick cunt and didn't realise why they were doing the trucks thing but it seemed like a shit plan.

I'm pissed now but will watch the rest tomorrow.

Gulftastic

Quote from: Chedney Honks on April 17, 2021, 05:19:37 PM
Yeah, that's definitely a point which resonates pretty quickly, very well done and bleak. Their excitement at having access to a load of shit but nothing else rang so hollow and made me feel a bit sad.

Apologies I'm a thick cunt and didn't realise why they were doing the trucks thing but it seemed like a shit plan.

I'm pissed now but will watch the rest tomorrow.

The truck plan would have been great if they hadn't had one of my favourite zombie movie cliches, namely one thick twat who fucks it up for everyone.

greenman

Quote from: Chedney Honks on April 17, 2021, 05:19:37 PM
Yeah, that's definitely a point which resonates pretty quickly, very well done and bleak. Their excitement at having access to a load of shit but nothing else rang so hollow and made me feel a bit sad.

Apologies I'm a thick cunt and didn't realise why they were doing the trucks thing but it seemed like a shit plan.

I'm pissed now but will watch the rest tomorrow.

I would say its perhaps not the film people might expect? for something that arguably launched the genre as a horror mainstay its not as focused on zombie action as might be expected.

Not really something I'd consider a "fun horror viewing" like say Demons.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: Gulftastic on April 17, 2021, 05:23:21 PM
The truck plan would have been great if they hadn't had one of my favourite zombie movie cliches, namely one thick twat who fucks it up for everyone.

You can forgive him for being mistaken that they had it by the ass, I think.

Glebe

It's a cracker of a film, no doubt about it. Top soundtrack too.

petercussing

Again, not meaning to be mr contrarian, but i'd say that Roger wasn't being dumb as such when he gets got on the trucks, it's like day 3 or 4 of being there and they've not been sleeping properly as they ain't got beds or nowt in the base so it must be shitty sleep. They are all prang anyway cos of the situation, he''s clearly supposed to be going a bit radge and he's just got a bit glib and cocky, as well, cos they are so slow and they are doing well. All he can think of is how much awesome stuff they are going to secure, which is re-enforced when he's going on about how they've beat them and got it all even though he's fucked and it's virtually useless to him, he's just focused on that empty prize.

Quote from: Chedney Honks on April 17, 2021, 05:19:37 PM
Apologies I'm a thick cunt and didn't realise why they were doing the trucks thing but it seemed like a shit plan.

I'm pissed now but will watch the rest tomorrow.

Aw, I feel like a right count jerkula now, i wasn't shaming or nothing. I mean, it's fair enough, if you weren't gripped by it i can see why you might have missed out on Peter saying about them gathering at the doors being a threat and then the rest would seem like some nonsense they were doing for no reason, so you weren't being a little donnie dumb dumb or nowt.

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on April 17, 2021, 02:27:51 PM
I first saw it and Suspiria (in heavily BBFC-censored versions) on the same night when I was thirteen and both inspired me to such an extent I am completely blind to their failings. This is possibly the reason I like the Cannes version of Dawn best, though many fans prefer the tighter edits. Which reminds me, I've yet to see the even longer version. I bet I'll love it.

There's faults in Susperia? Lolz, no there clearly are, such as the abrupt ending, but i love that film like a lunatic, as with mmost of Argento's films.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Avril Lavigne on April 17, 2021, 12:30:01 PM
For me the zombos in Dawn remain the definitive take, even though they're so clearly low-budget and in a lot of cases just regular-looking extras in blue face paint. I guess that stylistic touch makes them more visually striking and memorable than a lot of later, more realistic takes on the living dead.

The blue faced zombies in combination with the bright red paint-like blood effects give the film a comic book aesthetic, which works for the tone as a whole.  Indeed George Romero always said that he considered it to be a comic book movie.

Quote from: Avril Lavigne on April 17, 2021, 12:30:01 PM
Day of the Dead is better though, in most respects.

Easily my favourite of Romero's zombo films.  Bub is fantastic.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Avril Lavigne

Quote from: St_Eddie on April 17, 2021, 07:39:29 PM
The blue faced zombies in combination with the bright red paint-like blood effects give the film a comic book aesthetic, which works for the tone as a whole.  Indeed George Romero always said that he considered it to be a comic book movie.

Great point Ed! Reminds me of how Walter Hill considered The Warriors a comic book movie and in the 2005 director's cut he had the scene transitions actually turn into comic book panels. I think that idea would have worked much better if done with traditional cel animation in 1979 during the original production, instead of clearly-CG stuff added in the '00s, but as a concept I do think it strengthens the movie. It would be too on the nose for Dawn of the Dead but as you say, the unnatural colours already help to set that comic book tone.

Chedney Honks

Cheers, Pedro, appreciate you filling in the blanks. I must have zoned out a bit to miss some of the motivation for different scenes. I am tempted to restart it with the Argento cut. I got the Second Sight release with several different cuts so I think I might just start afresh. Heard the Argento is a pretty punchy version.

On reflection, there's plenty I enjoyed about it. The tone and action and dialogue are very appealing, it just seemed much less tight than Night, which I didn't find hokey at all. I thought it was really oppressive and grim. I didn't get that from the first half of Dawn but I'll have another crack. I'm happy to hold my hands up and consider that I might not have been in the right frame of mind or mood, so I I'll have another go.

Johnboy

I love the way there's no beginning, it's just straight into it, pure chaos and dread throughout.

It's way up there for me.

Avril Lavigne

Quote from: Chedney Honks on April 17, 2021, 07:59:37 PM
it just seemed much less tight than Night

It definitely is, but I think that works in its favour to convey the tedium of being in that situation. They secure themselves in the mall thinking they'll be safe and have everything they need to survive but then the boredom and complacency set in. It's a different setup and really, if it did have the same tightness and urgency as Night it wouldn't be as interesting for me because it would be closer to a soft reboot of that movie instead of its own thing.

Chedney Honks

I can see that angle, makes sense. Transposing the tautness of Night to a massive mall would lose the impact, I agree. Perhaps it'll be one like Blade Runner which didn't properly click with me until very recently despite several viewings over the years. I finally saw it for what it was, not what I wanted, and loved it. I will have definitely come to Dawn the first couple of times with far fewer expectations. I suspect that a recent rewatch of the Night didn't help, in fact.

BlodwynPig