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March 29, 2024, 09:05:59 AM

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Dawn of the Dead (1978)

Started by Chedney Honks, April 17, 2021, 11:34:33 AM

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BlodwynPig

The end credits of the 2004 remake are 1000 x gory than the actual film. Like they just went hog wild with a hi-res cannibal holocaust, rather than the muted "man-approved" tones of the main film.

Chedney Honks

Just realised I've actually been talking about Dawn of the GRAVERAPER.

Sorry, everyone. Will give this a whirl at some point.

Avril Lavigne

Quote from: Chedney Honks on April 17, 2021, 08:37:04 PM
I can see that angle, makes sense. Transposing the tautness of Night to a massive mall would lose the impact, I agree. Perhaps it'll be one like Blade Runner which didn't properly click with me until very recently despite several viewings over the years. I finally saw it for what it was, not what I wanted, and loved it. I will have definitely come to Dawn the first couple of times with far fewer expectations. I suspect that a recent rewatch of the Night didn't help, in fact.

Good call about Blade Runner, that's a movie I really like yet can always see why people would find it overrated or not gel with it on first viewing. I was going to mention coming to Dawn of the Dead after recently watching Night wouldn't help because Romero seemed really set on making every entry in his Dead series quite different to the last, in a way that reminds me of Sam Raimi's Evil Dead trilogy going from straight low-budget horror, to more ambitious slapstick horror-comedy, to medieval fantasy action.

Has anyone else seen Romero's Diary of the Dead? Possibly the worst movie I've paid to see in a cinema.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: Johnboy on April 17, 2021, 08:15:20 PM
I love the way there's no beginning, it's just straight into it, pure chaos and dread throughout.

It's way up there for me.

Still driving me mental where your avatar is from Johnboy, go on, tell us, tell uzzzzz.

Egyptian Feast

It's Odd Ball from Whizzer and Chips. Top avatar.

druss

I watched the first 3 Romero zombie films last Halloween and had a very similar experience to Ched. Absolutely blown away by NOTLD, expected to be even more impressed with Dawn as I'd watched it in my teens and thought "meh", thought age might increase my appreciation for it but it just didn't click.

Day was fantastic, although not quite as good as Night. Contrary to the poster who thought Night had aged badly I was amazed by how scary it was, other than the first few minutes which don't really give much of a clue as to the horrors later in the film.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on April 17, 2021, 09:09:24 PM
It's Odd Ball from Whizzer and Chips. Top avatar.

Knew it was something like that, I must have come across it from reprints in the 90s. Thanks!

St_Eddie

Quote from: Avril Lavigne on April 17, 2021, 08:56:29 PM
Has anyone else seen Romero's Diary of the Dead? Possibly the worst movie I've paid to see in a cinema.

Yes.  I don't like any of the entries in Romero's latter day trilogy.  Land of the Dead is a farcical overblown epic, which clearly suffered from studio interference.  It's just a shitty generic action flick.  The character of 'Big Daddy' also demonstrates how easily Bub in Day of the Dead could have been a failure, had it not had an actor like Sherman Howard to give such a superb and nuanced performance.

Diary of the Dead is a film made by an old man jumping on the found footage bandwagon without understanding what makes it work, whilst also making an embarrassing statement about his fear of the technology used by a new generation.  It's essentially 'Old Man Shouts at Cloud: The Movie'.

Survival of the Dead has sporadic moments which work but also many more moments which fall flat on their face (for example; the opening gag with the top of the zombo's head being blown off with cartoon physics; military woman masturbating in a jeep; the fishing for zombies scene; dead girl on a horse; MASSIVE FUCKING GREAT BIG FUCK OFF MOON that's bigger than THE FUCKING DEATH STAR looming in the sky).

I always got the distinct impression that Romero was disinterested in making zombie films during his twilight years but that it was all he could get funding for.  That disinterest translates to the films themselves.

Quote from: druss on April 17, 2021, 09:11:17 PM
Contrary to the poster who thought Night had aged badly I was amazed by how scary it was, other than the first few minutes which don't really give much of a clue as to the horrors later in the film.

The 1990 remake has become my go-to choice for when I feel like revisiting Night of the Living Dead.  I much prefer the strong Ripley-esque take on Barbara to the catatonic wilting violet from the original.

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 17, 2021, 08:43:00 PM
Its certainly dated.

I saw it in the pictures before all the hype and thought it was dismal then.

All the Romero Zombie films and remakes just blend into one for me. I think "day" is the one I liked best.

Quote from: petercussing on April 17, 2021, 07:31:47 PMi love that film like a lunatic, as with mmost of Argento's films.

Even Deep Red? I watched that over the last two nights and bar the odd unintentional laugh, that's 2 hours I'll never get back.
Some of it looked nice but it was really long and boring. Far too many shots of the Rik Mayal/Paul McCartney hybrid wandering around, looking bewildered.

Absolute plight of this - https://streamable.com/w0kfm5

checkoutgirl

Quote from: druss on April 17, 2021, 09:11:17 PMContrary to the poster who thought Night had aged badly I was amazed by how scary it was

The story of how Night was made, the cultural importance of it and what happened to it over the years is very interesting. It shows up here an there in various documentaries like Midnight Movies: From the Margin to the Mainstream (2005) which is on youtube and it's also got its own documentary Birth of the Living Dead (2013).

Worth checking out if you're that way inclined.

lipsink

Quote from: Avril Lavigne on April 17, 2021, 08:56:29 PM
Has anyone else seen Romero's Diary of the Dead? Possibly the worst movie I've paid to see in a cinema.

Yeah I saw it in the cinema too. It's bad.

I still prefer the gore and effects in Day of the Dead as it's way more brutal and disgusting. Though Dawn is the better film IMO.

petercussing

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on April 17, 2021, 10:20:07 PM

Even Deep Red? I watched that over the last two nights and bar the odd unintentional laugh, that's 2 hours I'll never get back.
Some of it looked nice but it was really long and boring. Far too many shots of the Rik Mayal/Paul McCartney hybrid wandering around, looking bewildered.

Absolute plight of this - https://streamable.com/w0kfm5

Especially Deep Red, that's super good, one of my favs, and i seriously don't even know what you are getting at with that clip, does that seem bad to you then? That bit's great in the film. Have you not watched many giallo or Italian horror films? That's really interesting, I think if that is objectively crap to everybody then my crapness radar has permanently been broken by me watching shit loads of them for the past 30 years.

Argento is defo a director that takes some getting used to, i was really non-plussed by him for ages and am a massive horror fan, but you find a film of his that clicks and then you tend to warm to most of the rest. Lots of his films are full of plot holes and have daft plots, but are super stylish and broadly enjoyable. If there was one thing Biggy got right before he left was that Phenomena is amazing.

greenman

Watching such films does I think need an acceptance that the acting will be a bit over the top and cheesey but even at the time I think those making them were aware of that.

I like lots of his stuff, I even found stuff to like in mother of tears! but eesh, this one really tested my patience.

I looked into it and apparently I watched the wrong, baggy cut, so that's on me.
Far too much arsing around in the one I saw. I just stopped caring what was coming next, there was no tension at all. Just waiting for something to happen and invariably nothing ever did.

There were some good bits, when they were bouncing that fat lads teeth off the corners of furniture, that was fun "eat this! Now eat this!"
and that ludicrously silly bit with the van.
It's hard to tell what is intentionally meant to be ridiculous and what is just ridiculous.

Loved the goblin soundtrack and it's great whenever that kicks in and it's right up high in the mix.

Honestly, I was hoping you were just gonna go "oh yeah, deep red's a bit of a shiter" and I'd feel a bit better.

That bit where he's on the phone, he's shitting himself, he's picked up a heavy ornament to defend himself then he runs over to lock the door, the killer whispers to him through the door and he picks up the phone and is like "there's somebody in the house, he's like ....... a-absolutely tryna kill me, you know?"
I burst out laughing for ages. I don't know how anyone couldn't find that funny.

petercussing

It did take a couple of watches to really like lots. It's generally considered one of his best ones though isn't it? That's what i'd heard anyway. Again, though, it's fine if you don't dig it, whether you like films or not is super personal and a reflection of yourself at the exact point you watch the film so i wouldn't want you to feel like i'm making you feel like you're doing a wrong think, as with Chedly.

Kudos for finding stuff to like in MOT, that film made me deeply sad when it came out lolz, but yeah there's a couple of good bits of stuff in it.

Yeah, I probably wasn't in the right mood for one of his films, to be fair. You have to be patient don't you?
The fact that I only had time for an hour and had to watch it over two nights says everything really.

Egyptian Feast

Deep Red is the best Argento and the finest giallo of all. Another one I caught as a teenager (still have my old Redemption video of it) and fell in love with. I even recorded bits of the soundtrack off the telly and used them as filler in compilation tapes for years to come (the bit where Hemmings has a mishap climbing the old house was a favourite). It's not to everyone's taste though, I've loaned it to a few people over the years who thought it was catshit. Ahh well.

druss

Quote from: checkoutgirl on April 17, 2021, 10:27:04 PM
The story of how Night was made, the cultural importance of it and what happened to it over the years is very interesting. It shows up here an there in various documentaries like Midnight Movies: From the Margin to the Mainstream (2005) which is on youtube and it's also got its own documentary Birth of the Living Dead (2013).

Worth checking out if you're that way inclined.
Good shout, checking out the youtube one now.

lipsink

There's also a great documentary called 'American Nightmare' about US (and Canadian) horror films of the late 60s and 70s. It focuses on Night, Last House on The Left, Texas Chainsaw, Shivers, Dawn of The Dead and Halloween. It doesn't seem to be on YouTube but I remember it was on the DVD for 'The Hills Have Eyes'.

Chedney Honks

Quote from: petercussing on April 17, 2021, 12:53:31 PM
For all the dumb bleating about it being painfully obvious metaphor on the evils of consumerism it's a really fucking good illustration of how empty it is and how miserable it makes you and also Satres point about hell being trapped with a group of other people you know with no avenue to meet anyone else.

Quote from: Avril Lavigne on April 17, 2021, 08:33:17 PM
It definitely is [less tight than Night] but I think that works in its favour to convey the tedium of being in that situation. They secure themselves in the mall thinking they'll be safe and have everything they need to survive but then the boredom and complacency set in.

Quote from: greenman on April 17, 2021, 04:10:11 PM
The sense that personal safety and comfort don't cover from the loss of society as a whole.

I went back and watched it again and this is what stuck with me. It's a very sad film. The initial thrill of the decadence and materialism quickly becomes grotesque and meaningless, really sold that very well. Likewise, as you say, even though they got along OK, better than the characters in Night, their lives felt so sterile and pointless. The attempts at creating a home were more depressing than their sitting on boxes watching the broadcasts.

I won't suddenly claim it all clicked for me but I tell you this, once I'd finished it, I could hear my neighbour's grandkids playing football and I felt a bit grateful for the normal hubbub of life. I did somewhat remember the ending but I had forgotten the context. I like how it pretends to be stereotypically hopeful, even with the 'triumphant' music, but it's a total downer. I'd love to know what happens next, but I feel like I already do.


Quote from: greenman on April 17, 2021, 05:29:50 PM
I would say its perhaps not the film people might expect?

Not really something I'd consider a "fun horror viewing" like say Demons.

Definitely the case for me. I'd clearly misremembered what it was or only retained the action snapshots. I will keep hold of the set now I have a stronger sense of what it is.

The Mollusk

People who whinge about this film would do well to admit that it's objectively still a landmark bit of cinema in many regards. I personally think "The Man Machine" and "The Matrix" are shite but I can still admit they're game-changers and therefore hold some objective historical brilliance that's incontestable. It is certainly not an overrated film, it's rated very fairly for what it is.

madhair60


greenman

Quote from: Chedney Honks on June 20, 2021, 03:34:20 PM
I went back and watched it again and this is what stuck with me. It's a very sad film. The initial thrill of the decadence and materialism quickly becomes grotesque and meaningless, really sold that very well. Likewise, as you say, even though they got along OK, better than the characters in Night, their lives felt so sterile and pointless. The attempts at creating a home were more depressing than their sitting on boxes watching the broadcasts.

I won't suddenly claim it all clicked for me but I tell you this, once I'd finished it, I could hear my neighbour's grandkids playing football and I felt a bit grateful for the normal hubbub of life. I did somewhat remember the ending but I had forgotten the context. I like how it pretends to be stereotypically hopeful, even with the 'triumphant' music, but it's a total downer. I'd love to know what happens next, but I feel like I already do.

Yeah pretty much, I wouldn't say I find it an especially scary or thrilling film, more a melancholic one which I think is an effective way to sell the anti consumerism message. We have the bikers acting like bastards after "stuff" but mostly the idea that no amount of "stuff" will replace the feeling of being part of a wider society. It did feel very relevant watching the UHD release in lockdown.

Its also I think one of those films that ends up parodying the genre almost as its helping to invent it which maybe isn't what is expected.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: The Mollusk on June 20, 2021, 05:48:36 PM
It is certainly not an overrated film, it's rated very fairly for what it is.
By knobs.

The Mollusk


Goldentony

Count me in as someone who went into it maybe expecting something else, and instead getting a really grim, weird and look at consumerism until the biker riot. Like when we rented Texas Chiansaw Massacre expecting what I reckon we ended up getting with NIGHT BEAST or whatever. Of course then I started reading Total Film and jut blagged I liked it for ages - haha no i'm joking, pretty much every time i've seen it since i've liked it more and more.Slow burner perhaps. Then again it's got Ken Foree shooting people in the face.

Roxy Robinson

Just been watching the Theatrical Cut, never realised until recently the Cannes cut was a first pass kinda rush job to have something to screen. I will have seen the Theatrical ages ago but both times I'd previously watched this Second Sight 4K UHD release, I went Cannes. Theatrical seems much more engaging, I'm not sure exactly what's trimmed here but I've been gripped throughout. Only paused because I need to get to bed, 4am start.

I love this film more and more.

bgmnts

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on June 20, 2021, 09:23:42 PMBy knobs.

I think it's a fantastic film but I am a knob, so you may be right.

I still say 'we got this by the ass' at any relevant moment.

Capt.Midnight

Quote from: Johnboy on April 17, 2021, 08:15:20 PMI love the way there's no beginning, it's just straight into it, pure chaos and dread throughout.

It's an amazing intro - From the bright red fuzzy wall & logo, to them leaving in the helicopter. There's a palpable sense of dread and tension, and the feeling that society is falling apart. I like how the focus is on various characters who are escaping, such as the cops on the boat, the SWAT guys, the TV Staff. They can see everything going to shit and their focus switches to self-preservation. 

Sebastian Cobb

My hot take is it's good but Chopping Mall is better.