Author Topic: Compulsory patriotism  (Read 5861 times)

Compulsory patriotism
« on: April 18, 2021, 09:37:42 PM »
Was checking to see if my local was open yet as my mum wants ot visit and when I looked at their Facebook page, I saw this...



...and it just made me feel so uneasy. Also made me feel quite down really.

Then there were these lot yesterday...



I know this is stating the obvious and there are probably several threads already on the subject but it really feels like we're moving to quite a dodgy place. I know there's been a royal death so people are quite flag happy anyway but that post from the Shepherd Rest really troubled me. What are 'true brits' and can you only be on if you stand up in a pub beer garden while a boring piece of music plays? Sometimes you can sense when certain debatable beliefs start to crystalise and now seems like one of those moments. I was thinking about this on the way home from meeting friends today and how increasingly it feels like not being patriotic or buying in to all the Philip bullshit is almost an 'alternative' or counter-culture view point. Doesn't help when you can easily imagine the leader of the Labour Party approvingly retweeting the above image/ comment. Does anyone else feel that there's something weird going on?

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 09:39:41 PM »
Not just you. I find it all a bit sinister. There's being patriotic and then there's this, and I hate having my arm twisted. I'll do the Remembrance Day silence, sure, I lost family in WW1 myself, but no way was I doing a silence for Phil.

I'm well aware I'm not a 'true Brit' in the eyes of many.

Butchers Blind

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 10:04:25 PM »



The one in the flat cap looks like he's having a standing kip.

Cuellar

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 10:05:16 PM »
Look at those two PRICKS sitting down. Scum.

bgmnts

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 10:07:16 PM »
If you all dont like it you can move to a sensible nation.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 10:07:27 PM »
The younger fella having a chuckle is the hero of the hour

Butchers Blind

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 10:08:54 PM »
I bet the one in the white top and fat legs is a fucking nuisance in that pub.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 10:17:55 PM »
to quite a dodgy place. I know there's been a royal death so people are quite flag happy anyway but that post from the Shepherd Rest really troubled me.

What; because some pub landlord thanked a load of people for entertaining his request for a minute silence.  I mean I get your point but "really troubled" seems a bit OTT.

Quote
What are 'true brits' and can you only be on if you stand up in a pub beer garden while a boring piece of music plays? Sometimes you can sense when certain debatable beliefs start to crystalise and now seems like one of those moments. I was thinking about this on the way home from meeting friends today and how increasingly it feels like not being patriotic or buying in to all the Philip bullshit is almost an 'alternative' or counter-culture view point. Doesn't help when you can easily imagine the leader of the Labour Party approvingly retweeting the above image/ comment. Does anyone else feel that there's something weird going on?

No; an old monarch died and lots of people transpose their own parents mortality and ultimately their own mortality on to these things as it is easier to deal with death this way.  Of course there were are always going to be sycophants in the media boring us all with everything royal; it really is no different from all the other bollocks.  Brits sitting in pubs and getting misty eyed at British history really isn't anything unusual or new.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 10:18:36 PM »
This inarticulate longing for empty gestures, flags and so on is tied into loss of identity and purpose as a consequence of post-industrialisation's effect of the nature of work and housing, along with globalisation's imposition of debt-fuelled disposable consumerism and sink or swim neoliberal economics that has not redistributed wealth or delivered democratic accountability.

The multi-faceted identity people used to have by consequence of their strong roots to an area, to a type of work, and to a community around them has all gone.

Buying pointless shit and getting jealous that other people seem to have more pointless shit than you does not fill that void. Watching while your environment around you decays through austerity and lack of ambition adds to the resentment, resentment that is taken out on whatever scapegoats are necessary.

Britain is in an unhealthy addiction to a system that it knows deep down is hollowing us out. In some ways the Leavers were braver than Remainers. They picked the wrong scapegoat but at least reached the point where they identified the rotten nature of the system.

As time goes on I find myself more inclined to defend their decision, catastrophically bad though it is, versus defending some liberal capitalists who just want their cosy bubble to go on forever apparently regardless of the cost to anyone else.

My point? Give these people something tangible to be proud of and to identify with and they will no longer need cheap vacant props like this.


TrenterPercenter

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 10:19:49 PM »
My point? Give these people something tangible to be proud of and to identify with and they will no longer need cheap vacant props like this.

Exactly.

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 10:23:01 PM »
I'm just glad they don't get up to that shit here.  Also, where are the women?

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 10:27:18 PM »
I'm just glad they don't get up to that shit here.  Also, where are the women?

Probably "at home where they belong."

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 10:36:30 PM »
What; because some pub landlord thanked a load of people for entertaining his request for a minute silence.  I mean I get your point but "really troubled" seems a bit OTT.


No. Describing himself and the people who stood for the national anthem as 'true brits' troubled me.

I fear that the tory desire to plant union jacks everywhere they can and simultaneously ratchet up the right wing Britain First side of things, combined with this current wave of dewy-eyed patriotism is leading us somewhere rather dangerous. Whereas once, quite recently, it was something to possibly mock or tut at, it's now not only mainstream but seems to be solidifying in to something more concerning. I worry the Philip stuff is a catalyst for something more malign rather than the relative harmlessness of much of the last week's sob-fest.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2021, 10:40:32 PM »
This inarticulate longing for empty gestures, flags and so on is tied into loss of identity and purpose as a consequence of post-industrialisation's effect of the nature of work and housing, along with globalisation's imposition of debt-fuelled disposable consumerism and sink or swim neoliberal economics that has not redistributed wealth or delivered democratic accountability.

The multi-faceted identity people used to have by consequence of their strong roots to an area, to a type of work, and to a community around them has all gone.

Buying pointless shit and getting jealous that other people seem to have more pointless shit than you does not fill that void. Watching while your environment around you decays through austerity and lack of ambition adds to the resentment, resentment that is taken out on whatever scapegoats are necessary.

Britain is in an unhealthy addiction to a system that it knows deep down is hollowing us out. In some ways the Leavers were braver than Remainers. They picked the wrong scapegoat but at least reached the point where they identified the rotten nature of the system.

As time goes on I find myself more inclined to defend their decision, catastrophically bad though it is, versus defending some liberal capitalists who just want their cosy bubble to go on forever apparently regardless of the cost to anyone else.

My point? Give these people something tangible to be proud of and to identify with and they will no longer need cheap vacant props like this.
Is the rest of Europe like this? Apart from the whole leaving the EU bit.

Also, this is a weird question but has loss of religion got anything to do with it? Like, people aren't going to church as much these days so they need something to fill the void?

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2021, 10:44:27 PM »
I think a lot of places in Europe are affected similarly by the ravages of capitalism, the effects of lockdown, post-industrial bleakness, debt and so on.  Places like Hungary are also similarly affected by flag-worship. 

I'm not religious, I never feel the need to wave a flag either.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2021, 10:47:46 PM »
I think a lot of places in Europe are affected similarly by the ravages of capitalism, the effects of lockdown, post-industrial bleakness, debt and so on.  Places like Hungary are also similarly affected by flag-worship. 

I'm not religious, I never feel the need to wave a flag either.
Is France like us in terms of flag-worship/patriotism? Although they don't have a royal family so not sure how much of a difference it makes.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2021, 10:48:12 PM »
No. Describing himself and the people who stood for the national anthem as 'true brits' troubled me.

Yeah he is the landlord of a pub, on Facebook, its the kind of things some people say; I wouldn't over think this too much.


Better Midlands

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2021, 10:49:54 PM »

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2021, 10:53:11 PM »
Is France like us in terms of flag-worship/patriotism? Although they don't have a royal family so not sure how much of a difference it makes.

I don't think so.  I live out in the sticks, people might be different in the cities (but I doubt it very much).  There are fascists of course, in every country, there are some fascists.  But Britain - eight days mourning?  No, don't think anyone outside of places like North Korea would think that's normal.  And all this poppy-flagshaggery is just incredibly unhealthy - has there ever been a time where that kind of change in behaviour from a nation was not the forerunner to some deeply ungood shit?

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2021, 10:57:40 PM »
No one has actually done 8 days of mourning though have they.

I've had one person I know say RIP once; that's it.  Everyone else has very much been taking the piss or cigs mate.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2021, 11:01:43 PM »

Is that purple Chevrolet shirt some sort of sport team thing? 

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2021, 11:04:49 PM »
I'm in France but this - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-the-period-of-national-mourning/guidance-for-the-period-of-national-mourning - looks like eight days official mourning to me.  Not even the point though, is it?  Point is Britain's culture is changing in a very negative way, that much is obvious.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2021, 11:19:25 PM »
Yes it has voted to leave the EU and the government are a real bunch of arseholes even by Tory standards; still comparing it to North Korea because some landlord called his patrons true Brits is pushing it a bit.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2021, 11:21:13 PM »
Is the rest of Europe like this? Apart from the whole leaving the EU bit.
Ehhhh in Ireland it doesn't manifest itself quite like this (except the North). We did throw a massive parade in 2016 for the centenary of the Easter Rising, and a German acquaintance who was working here remarked on the overt display of patriotism - as a child he was taught in school to be wary of that sort of thing for obvious reasons. We'd be doing likewise for the War of Independence if the world hadn't ended. There's a degree of myth-making involved in how we teach our history, which sometimes obscures historical accuracy for political reasons (Catholics good, Protestants bad and also Brits).

Our far right groups don't have the same momentum as UKIP and so none of the three biggest parties have any reason to ally with them. We also pass power back and forth between two parties who represent opposite sides in the Civil War, who are both centre-right, and who usually rule in coalition with a smaller party or parties. When things go tits up the smaller coalition parties get blamed and are usually decimated in the next election while the real culprits get re-elected.

As far as the EU goes, Ireland was woefully underdeveloped at the time of the Government of Ireland Act, with the more industrialised six counties of Northern Ireland staying within the UK. There's no vast and wealthy empire we can hearken back to; indeed most people are aware that without EU membership we would've remained Britain's economic back yard. The people really fucked over by EU membership are the fishermen, and they were fucked over on purpose by our own government to make things better for the farmers. And the farmers ain't clamouring to leave the EU, too many subsidies (and exploitable Polish labour).

But it's always there, a rich vein of racism and xenophobia that's usually directed at Travellers because most of the black and brown people are shoved in Direct Provision centres. And we really don't like English people.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2021, 11:24:38 PM »
Is that purple Chevrolet shirt some sort of sport team thing?

Some kind of Man United change strip/third strip - one of the range of ever-changing multi-coloured numbers designed to extract cash from the gullible loyal fan base.

Chevrolet is one of the UK’s many successful indigenous car manufacturers, forming part of our vibrant manufacturing industry. Their cars are ubiquitous here - there’s a slight chance to you might find one that’s been exported to the US but there’s a low likelihood of that, I think it’s safe to say. 

bgmnts

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2021, 11:25:04 PM »
To be fair I dont think even English people like English people.

Butchers Blind

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2021, 11:27:28 PM »
I'm in France but this - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-the-period-of-national-mourning/guidance-for-the-period-of-national-mourning - looks like eight days official mourning to me.  Not even the point though, is it?  Point is Britain's culture is changing in a very negative way, that much is obvious.

Still not even sure what the public are supposed to do with 8 days of official mourning. Made fuck all difference to me.

idunnosomename

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2021, 11:28:53 PM »
big lad in the t-shirt looks like he's going to lay an egg

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2021, 11:30:51 PM »
Yes it has voted to leave the EU and the government are a real bunch of arseholes even by Tory standards; still comparing it to North Korea because some landlord called his patrons true Brits is pushing it a bit.

No-one has compared it to North Korea.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2021, 11:34:39 PM »
Some kind of Man United change strip/third strip - one of the range of ever-changing multi-coloured numbers designed to extract cash from the gullible loyal fan base.
Strictly speaking, it's a replica Man United goalkeeper's jersey.

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