Author Topic: Compulsory patriotism  (Read 5931 times)

mothman

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2021, 11:42:35 PM »
Also, this is a weird question but has loss of religion got anything to do with it? Like, people aren't going to church as much these days so they need something to fill the void?

Well... I’ve wondered this myself on occasion. There are those who like to draw some correlation between the decline in church attendance and anything that these sorts of people consider a “moral decline.” But (Adam Curtis alert)this was a fantasy. Religion was only ever a stick the ruling class used to keep the lower orders in line. It’d be great to think that people are more enlightened, but the truth is that they’re not, and the people in charge just found other sticks (and carrots) to use. Now, instead of going to church, people worship at the altar of the box in the corner of their living room - or, these days, the large sheet of black glass on the wall or the smaller one you’re probably holding in your hand reading this right now.

Paul Calf

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2021, 11:45:13 PM »
What; because some pub landlord thanked a load of people for entertaining his request for a minute silence.  I mean I get your point but "really troubled" seems a bit OTT.

No; an old monarch died and lots of people transpose their own parents mortality and ultimately their own mortality on to these things as it is easier to deal with death this way.  Of course there were are always going to be sycophants in the media boring us all with everything royal; it really is no different from all the other bollocks.  Brits sitting in pubs and getting misty eyed at British history really isn't anything unusual or new.

Come on mate. Silence for the dead decaying cunt, a round of applause for the national anthem? This is forelock-tugging, boot-licking bullshit, the toleration of which is leading us down a very dark path to chauvinism and pretending otherwise is beneath all of us.

bgmnts

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2021, 11:48:10 PM »
It's just a societally pressured minute's silence for a dead old racist member of an archaic as fuck ruling class. Whats the big deal?

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2021, 11:54:53 PM »
We have a government determined to ban any form of dissent, whilst criticising that government for the thousands of needless deaths caused by its inept handling of the pandemic is deemed unpatriotic. Meanwhile the Labour Party is draping itself in the Union flag and suspending members who call out HRH's racism. But, yeah, everything's fine.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2021, 12:01:25 AM »
Meanwhile the Labour Party is draping itself in the Union flag and suspending members who call out HRH's racism.
fucking hell

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2021, 12:04:51 AM »
Got two tins of these yesterday. Rest of you are probably communists or labour voters or some shit.


Rich Uncle Skeleton

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2021, 12:29:57 AM »
Is there any noticeable difference? When i was living in Melbourne I'd buy a few tins of both regular (aussie) heinz beans and the "British recipe" and they taste exactly the same. Given they cost the same I just assumed they were printing different labels for the hell of it. But maybe Canadian heinz is shit in a tin.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2021, 12:34:38 AM »
This thread has inspired me to watch the laugh a minute 1970 film Joe, thanks all.

JesusAndYourBush

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2021, 01:03:37 AM »

Why has the bloke second from the right stolen the trouser legs of the guy in the white t-shirt?

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2021, 01:47:14 AM »
Is there any noticeable difference? When i was living in Melbourne I'd buy a few tins of both regular (aussie) heinz beans and the "British recipe" and they taste exactly the same. Given they cost the same I just assumed they were printing different labels for the hell of it. But maybe Canadian heinz is shit in a tin.

Yeah they’re more British.

Honestly.

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2021, 06:04:35 AM »
No-one has compared it to North Korea.

Oh, why's that then?




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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2021, 06:32:12 AM »
Quote
Also, this is a weird question but has loss of religion got anything to do with it? Like, people aren't going to church as much these days so they need something to fill the void?

Also in part, yes. Religion acts as social glue, while also being lots of other, far shittier things.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2021, 06:46:13 AM »

"There you are, you little so-and-so's!  Which one of you left the bathroom in such a state this morning?  Come on, own up"
"Sorry Gran"


Zetetic

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2021, 07:26:06 AM »
Also, this is a weird question but has loss of religion got anything to do with it? Like, people aren't going to church as much these days so they need something to fill the void?
The causal direction is probably the other way around - it's only because of the growth of the state that people stopped going to church. Why else? It's not as though there's any more or less evidence for the existence of God than there was in 1500.

The nation-state supplanted religious institutions over the last few hundred years in Western Europe, taking over the roles of providing a shared moral code, a way to signal allegiance to that code, and a mechanism to enforce that code.

Buelligan

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Daddy's dead
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2021, 07:31:15 AM »
Also, maybe, enlightenment.  Education.  Maybe, with some people, an external authority laying out their path, mapping their personal choices, is not necessary or welcome.  Maybe they can shift their own shit and prefer it that way.  Maybe they like standing under the stars in the great empty universe, alone, deciding for themselves where to go next.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2021, 07:48:46 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/19/worship-national-symbols-culture-decline-flags-statues

Yes, once you appreciate that the behaviour is symptomatic of a sick, dysfunctional society I don't think any argument indicating it is harmless background noise works.

Additionally, saying 'let the proles have their moment' is a cynical milquetoast, bordering on negligent attitude. These moments are exactly the point where the most progress can be made.


Zetetic

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Re: Daddy's dead
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2021, 07:56:48 AM »
Also, maybe, enlightenment.  Education.
On what? Scree slopes? The hypotenuse? The citric acid cycle?

Quote
Maybe, with some people, an external authority laying out their path, mapping their personal choices, is not necessary or welcome.
The external authority tends to have its own views though. God or the Gendarmerie - the choice is not entirely yours.

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2021, 08:01:40 AM »
Education, as I'm sure you realise old bat, does not just teach one about oxbow lakes but also gives confidence in ones own ability to think.  Thinking, a key and a ticket to a world free of gods and pigs. 

As you say, of course the choice is not entirely ours, that's why it's important not to let some fuck astroturf the butcher's apron or any other ring-nose bullshit round here.  Or anywhere.

bgmnts

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2021, 08:07:22 AM »
Education, as I'm sure you realise old bat, does not just teach one about oxbow lakes but also gives confidence in ones own ability to think.  Thinking, a key and a ticket to a world free of gods and pigs. 

Ehhhhhh dunno.

Paul Calf

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2021, 08:22:56 AM »
confidence in ones own ability to think.

There's currently no shortage of this.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2021, 08:34:37 AM »
Yes it has voted to leave the EU and the government are a real bunch of arseholes even by Tory standards; still comparing it to North Korea because some landlord called his patrons true Brits is pushing it a bit.

Stop this. I see what you are doing.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2021, 08:38:02 AM »
Education, as I'm sure you realise old bat, does not just teach one about oxbow lakes but also gives confidence in ones own ability to think.  Thinking, a key and a ticket to a world free of gods and pigs. 

As you say, of course the choice is not entirely ours, that's why it's important not to let some fuck astroturf the butcher's apron or any other ring-nose bullshit round here.  Or anywhere.

Steady on!


Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2021, 09:01:51 AM »
We have a government determined to ban any form of dissent, whilst criticising that government for the thousands of needless deaths caused by its inept handling of the pandemic is deemed unpatriotic. Meanwhile the Labour Party is draping itself in the Union flag and suspending members who call out HRH's racism. But, yeah, everything's fine.

Quite. Some bloody weird takes on here.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2021, 09:35:39 AM »
Quite. Some bloody weird takes on here.

small p patriots sticking their hand-made loafers in.

Buelligan

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2021, 09:55:26 AM »
There's currently no shortage of this.

Well then, roll your sleeves up and help me burn down the Establishment please.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2021, 11:44:28 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/19/worship-national-symbols-culture-decline-flags-statues

Fucking hell the graun is in bad shape these days - I check in every few months when a link is posted on here. There’s an editorial on housing making the asset-rich even richer (presumably a source of great joy in the grauniad editorial meeting).

The comments are full of “I’m alright Jack” and one person literally arguing “housing is more unaffordable in Silicon Valley” so it’s fine and everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, along with the occasional perma-confused lefty who doesn’t realized they’re the only ones left reading a newspaper that hates them.

Desolate stuff.

Thomas

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Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2021, 11:45:39 AM »
Thatcher's greatest achievement was the Guardian's comments section.

Re: Compulsory patriotism
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2021, 01:13:56 PM »
Is there any noticeable difference? When i was living in Melbourne I'd buy a few tins of both regular (aussie) heinz beans and the "British recipe" and they taste exactly the same. Given they cost the same I just assumed they were printing different labels for the hell of it. But maybe Canadian heinz is shit in a tin.

Not sure about Canada but US baked beans are completely different to UK baked beans. The the sauce is made with brown sugar, molasses, not tomato style like we have. I used to pay a fortune for imported tins.

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