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European 'Super' League

Started by Chedney Honks, April 19, 2021, 05:21:21 AM

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Chedney Honks

When are the FA going to order hitmen on all the clubs, owners, players, staff and all fans for letting this happen?

badaids

Even with all the trams pulling out, it hasn't gone away.  The idea crops up every 2 years or so (39th league game anybody), and gets closer each time. It's inevitable in the end.

jobotic

Quote from: checkoutgirl on April 21, 2021, 12:53:42 AM
If they were heavily sanctioned wouldn't that motivate them more to plot their escape again. Like fining Germany billions of quid and not allowing them to do certain things after world war 1. That'll teach 'em and definitely won't piss them off and encourage them to start another world war with better guns and more dead bodies.

So welcome back and thank you? can we get you anything?

checkoutgirl

Quote from: jobotic on April 21, 2021, 07:02:37 AM
So welcome back and thank you? can we get you anything?

They clearly have or at least believe they have as much or more power than UEFA etc. This whole thing is about them freeing themselves from these bodies so they can use their global brand as a money printing machine, unhindered by having to kick back a single penny to Acrington Stanley or whoever. They hate that. Any sanctions would just antagonise them.

Then again they will leave eventually and by the time they do the fans will be conditioned not to care. They just forgot the propaganda campaign to soften people up this time around.

Bernice

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 20, 2021, 11:12:35 PM
Worked out as planned. They have completed the sounding board while keeping fans onside and softening UEFA up for further concessions.

No, it didn't. They're dumb billionaires who know little about the sport and care less. This wasn't some move in a 4D chess match, it was a genuine attempt at a coup and it has failed miserably.

UEFA are striking a conciliatory tone now, after branding them all snakes. Personally, I hope that the strength of this backlash can be harnessed in a continued pushback against the forces that got us to this sorry state. I won't hold my breath, but right now the billionaire owner class looks weaker than it has done at any point in well over a decade.

Quote from: checkoutgirl on April 21, 2021, 07:45:39 AM
Then again they will leave eventually and by the time they do the fans will be conditioned not to care. They just forgot the propaganda campaign to soften people up this time around.

I know you lot on here love a bit of reflexive miserablism, but I'm amazed at how many of you are seeing an unambiguous victory as evidence of deferred defeat.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteI'm amazed at how many of you are seeing an unambiguous victory as evidence of deferred defeat.

It must be our interpretation of the evidence instead of yours.

If any military metaphor applies here it's that some forces called off an assault after a show of might and some reconnaissance. 'We' didn't wage any war and have not won anything in order to be victorious. We were attacked, we know they will be back, we know there will always be the same intentions and we know eventually they will find a way to make the defeat palatable.

The billionaires didn't cook this up in a vacuum. They will all have advisors and connections across all aspects of the industry, and been war gaming tactics for years. If you honestly believe they are the stupid ones then that is so obviously laughable as to not even be worth responding to.

checkoutgirl

It's not really victory for me as I watch very little football but the current system leaks money from an accountant perspective and accountants are paid to think of ways to avoid money leakage. Make no mistake, every penny going to help grass roots and the lower leagues is seen as a problem. They've made that very clear.

Bernice

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 21, 2021, 08:03:54 AM
The billionaires didn't cook this up in a vacuum. They will all have advisors and connections across all aspects of the industry, and been war gaming tactics for years. If you honestly believe they are the stupid ones then that is so obviously laughable as to not even be worth responding to.

And yet, here you are.

The powerful make no tactical errors, all is in their plan, they suffer no defeats. Resistance peaks with doom-laden, online snark.

Vitalstatistix

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 21, 2021, 08:03:54 AM
The billionaires didn't cook this up in a vacuum. They will all have advisors and connections across all aspects of the industry, and been war gaming tactics for years. If you honestly believe they are the stupid ones then that is so obviously laughable as to not even be worth responding to.

I think you're giving them too much credit. This launch was fucking Tinge UK tier. An embarrassment. Kendall going after Logan but being stuck in traffic. A coup attempt scrawled on the back of a cocaine-encrusted beermat. Yeah, they'll come again. The world is still fucked. But they shit the bed.

Head Gardener

 https://thesuperleague.com/ still got the English clubs listed on it's front page




BlodwynPig

Quote from: Head Gardener on April 21, 2021, 08:30:01 AM
https://thesuperleague.com/ still got the English clubs listed on it's front page



Yes, but now its Everton, Southampton, Burnley, Leeds, West Brom and Salford

Fr.Bigley

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 21, 2021, 08:37:49 AM
Yes, but now its Everton, Southampton, Burnley, Leeds, West Brom and Salford

How dare you sully the good name of my beloved LUFC!

DrGreggles

Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has welcomed the news that more clubs have withdrawn from the planned breakaway league and appeared to rule out any sanctions...

"I said yesterday that it is admirable to admit a mistake and these clubs made a big mistake. But they are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.

"The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together."


Cowards.

jobotic

The snakes have transformed into beautiful flowers.

Give them money.

phantom_power

I think part of the problem is that in most cases it seems that the owners were the ones driving the participation rather than the clubs, though obviously in some ways those things are indistinguishable. If you punish the club you also punish the fans, players and everyone else who played no part in these decisions. I am not sure there are any adequate, likely punishments that the owners would give much of a shit about anyway

I think the important thing, maybe, is that they now know there is a limit to how far they can push it, and the fans have seen that direct action can have a positive effect. I have doubts that either of those things will see an overall change in the football landscape of how fans are treated but you can but hope

Quote from: Vitalstatistix on April 21, 2021, 08:26:30 AM
I think you're giving them too much credit. This launch was fucking Tinge UK tier. An embarrassment. Kendall going after Logan but being stuck in traffic. A coup attempt scrawled on the back of a cocaine-encrusted beermat. Yeah, they'll come again. The world is still fucked. But they shit the bed.

Tinge's legacy is that the centre regained control of the Labour party. They embarrassed themselves and fucked their own political careers but they got exactly what they wanted. Chuka's a higher up at JP Morgan now. Funny old game.

TSL will go away, recalibrate, rebrand, present an offering that's less repugnant, the fans of the clubs involved will fall for it and once it's up and running they'll amend the rules to get them back to where they originally intended to be.

amateur

Quote from: phantom_power on April 21, 2021, 10:39:03 AM
I think part of the problem is that in most cases it seems that the owners were the ones driving the participation rather than the clubs, though obviously in some ways those things are indistinguishable. If you punish the club you also punish the fans, players and everyone else who played no part in these decisions. I am not sure there are any adequate, likely punishments that the owners would give much of a shit about anyway

I think the important thing, maybe, is that they now know there is a limit to how far they can push it, and the fans have seen that direct action can have a positive effect. I have doubts that either of those things will see an overall change in the football landscape of how fans are treated but you can but hope

Unfortunately for there to be any consequences, the players, fans and everyone else involved in the club have to be punished. You need something to make other billionaires think twice about using football clubs as profit machines.

You need something to stop the escalation of wages and agent fees, and if that means a drop in the "quality" of the football, or the best players all go to China, then so be it. The alternative is this Super League and the death of football as we know it.

Competitive football, not quality football for me Clive.

bgmnts

Quote from: amateur on April 21, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Unfortunately for there to be any consequences, the players, fans and everyone else involved in the club have to be punished. You need something to make other billionaires think twice about using football clubs as profit machines.

You need something to stop the escalation of wages and agent fees, and if that means a drop in the "quality" of the football, or the best players all go to China, then so be it. The alternative is this Super League and the death of football as we know it.

Competitive football, not quality football for me Clive.

I've been saying this for years. The quality aspect of football is surely secondary and its just something people tell themselves to justify the obscene amount of money pissed away on it. If you had 20 pub teams on telly you'd still be into the drama and competition of it. A lot of people just like football for the hooliganism/fighting aspect of it anyway.

amateur

You want real cash into the grassroots, make all these teams start again at the bottom of the pyramid.

Every team they play for years will have more media interest, full houses, more money.

That's how you show solidarity.

ersatz99

I'm confused by what made them back out. The backlash was surely at the levels expected. The only thing it could be was completely misunderstanding their continued inclusion in domestic leagues which seems like utter incompetence because UEFA's rules are pretty clear.

Utter Shit

Quote from: badaids on April 21, 2021, 06:29:21 AM
Even with all the trams pulling out, it hasn't gone away.  The idea crops up every 2 years or so (39th league game anybody), and gets closer each time. It's inevitable in the end.

Doubt it. This was them playing their hand, and it fell apart within two days. Their best chance is to keep chipping away at the current Champions League until it resembles something similar to their ideal, but the breakaway they wanted so they could start to dictate their own rules and guarantee their financial success has just died in the water.

They have been planning this for at least twenty years (realistically much longer), only to see it die in 48 hours when they went public. This was their best plan and it failed horrendously - and they're in a much worse position now because they have turned everyone against them in a massive, active way.

jobotic

How is punishing the clubs punishing the fans? They might not win everything or get their rightful top six position for one season? Boo hoo.

No is saying that the clubs should be dissolved (apart from me, about Man City).

amateur

Quote from: jobotic on April 21, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
How is punishing the clubs punishing the fans? They might not win everything or get their rightful top six position for one season? Boo hoo.

No is saying that the clubs should be dissolved (apart from me, about Man City).

Good point - you're still going to support your club in League 2. I think people who haven't been relegated probably see it as the end of the world when really it's not that bad. Had a fine old time with Saints in League 1, personally.

dr beat

Quote from: amateur on April 21, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Unfortunately for there to be any consequences, the players, fans and everyone else involved in the club have to be punished. You need something to make other billionaires think twice about using football clubs as profit machines.

You need something to stop the escalation of wages and agent fees, and if that means a drop in the "quality" of the football, or the best players all go to China, then so be it. The alternative is this Super League and the death of football as we know it.

Competitive football, not quality football for me Clive.

But the ownership model is the same for most other league clubs it seems.  I don't see how punishing the big six will stop the other tinpot investors with delusions of grandeur using your Wigan Athletics of this world, to name but one example, as their playthings (or worse - I've heard more than one allegation of clubs being used as money laundering tools).  Neither would it put off the Mike Ashleys of this world.

Funnily enough, I don't want to be 'punished'.  Seriously I've experienced enough collective punishment in my life which has exerted some pretty major psychological scars well into middle age.  Though sport is no trivial matter, as I experienced when the Rugby League club I support almost went out of existence. 

Better instead to review the whole ownership model in English football, possibly looking elsewhere (Germany?) and look to one which will benefit all clubs.  I'm not against a more level playing field in financial and thus playing terms, just one that is sustainable, transparent and above all legal.

wooders1978

It's not done - the mind boggling figures are too alluring, they will have learnt a lesson from this and will rebrand and relaunch in a season or two

Utter Shit

Quote from: ersatz99 on April 21, 2021, 10:59:42 AM
I'm confused by what made them back out. The backlash was surely at the levels expected. The only thing it could be was completely misunderstanding their continued inclusion in domestic leagues which seems like utter incompetence because UEFA's rules are pretty clear.

Quotes from various sources have said that it's almost certain they didn't expect the backlash, and that this shouldn't be a surprise because despite their status and wealth, they are often astonishingly incompetent.

Sadly the reality is the punishments likely won't be that significant on-field, because the Premier League, UEFA etc are just as corrupt as the owners and won't be willing to rish their own income to make a point by relegating them or banning them from competitions. My best bet is that there will be significant financial penalties that will hopefully (and only after huge public pressure) be fed down the leagues. Maybe a small-ish points deduction each for the 2021-22 season at a push, but I doubt it.

Chedney Honks

Shoot the fans, and I mean it.

Inspector Norse

Quote from: ersatz99 on April 21, 2021, 10:59:42 AM
I'm confused by what made them back out. The backlash was surely at the levels expected. The only thing it could be was completely misunderstanding their continued inclusion in domestic leagues which seems like utter incompetence because UEFA's rules are pretty clear.

I don't think they expected the backlash from the players. Not just the English ones but players like Pique publicly stating their opposition.

I think they expected the backlash from the fans and that they could ride that out like they've done before. But the players and politicians reacting like they did was not in the plan.

chveik

Quote from: Bernice on April 21, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
And yet, here you are.

The powerful make no tactical errors, all is in their plan, they suffer no defeats. Resistance peaks with doom-laden, online snark.

imagine looking at Agnelli and Perez and thinking they're playing some sort of masterplan.

phantom_power

I think they are so used to the fans apathetically accepting every kick in the nuts that they thought the same would happen again. I think they are so divorced from the reality of football for most fans and consumers that they don't really see the difference between the ESL and the CL