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March 29, 2024, 02:43:00 PM

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Wishing death on people

Started by madhair60, April 20, 2021, 02:11:56 PM

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popcorn

Quote from: JaDanketies on May 05, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
Even with right monsters like Ian Watkins or Jimi Savile or Ian Huntley, when people talk about what they 'deserve', involving toothpicks and acid baths and urethras and the rest of it, I find it very distasteful. It doesn't put the fantasist in a positive light.

I'll never forget spending a Thanksgiving in Canada with a mate's family, and the family were sitting around watching TV, and there was a news report about some paedo, and the tiny old grandma said "He should be strung up by his balls." I just thought, jesus christ, what a psychotic impulse.

Sebastian Cobb

I kind of feel while there's a genuinely interesting moral discussion to be had around 'wishing death' is ok when it minimises harm, and whether this is the same as 'wishing someone had never been born' and where it puts the person wishing it in all this, most times someone gets told off for wishing death it's far less a moral argument and more someone moaning about a lack of decorum.

The lack of decorum doesn't bother me much and I find the complaining a little trite, worse it usually derails the topic at hand to a tedious squabble.

mothman

Someone I follow on Twitter got a 12hr ban for sarcastically telling a (since suspended) troll to "knock yourself out." Violated the rules on promoting self harm or suicide. Just to put things in perspective.

Sebastian Cobb

Report pile-ons and overworked staff who can't reasonably be expected to pay much interest in the context of individual tweets will do that.

Non Stop Dancer

Quote from: Buelligan on April 20, 2021, 02:34:02 PM
I sat there, right on the edge and looked down across the steep slopes, once wooded, now black because a tourist decided to have a barbecue and thought it'd be OK when the barbecue decided to run free (I am not even lying), looked right down to my perfect little brown bird of a village, nestling there and thought I wish the fucking mayor, the village council and every other fucker here, including me, would die.  This place would be safer without us.
I don't understand this point of view. What good are flowers, critters etc if there are no humans there to enjoy them?

GoblinAhFuckScary

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
I don't understand this point of view. What good are flowers, critters etc if there are no humans there to enjoy them?

is this your real opinion?

popcorn

it's not actually insane - removing human experience from the planet wouldn't make anything morally better or worse if there were no moral agents left to exist within in it. A tree falling in the woods etc. Flowers don't give a shit.

Non Stop Dancer

Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on May 05, 2021, 05:40:32 PM
is this your real opinion?
Sort of. Huge fan of nature, think we should be careful, respectful custodians of the planet, but honestly what's the point of a blue tit were it not for us cooing over it? You wouldn't make music if there were nobody there to listen to it would you.

Kankurette

But other blue tits would appreciate it.

The planet would continue to exist without us. Nature finds a way. Just look at Chernobyl.

Gregory Torso

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
I don't understand this point of view. What good are flowers, critters etc if there are no humans there to enjoy them?

Flowers don't make themselves look pretty for you, sunshine.

GoblinAhFuckScary

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 06:13:34 PM
Sort of. Huge fan of nature, think we should be careful, respectful custodians of the planet, but honestly what's the point of a blue tit were it not for us cooing over it? You wouldn't make music if there were nobody there to listen to it would you.

i mean there is no point to it and that's ok. do you never make art or music for yourself? i do it constantly! it's a bonus to share

popcorn

Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on May 05, 2021, 06:21:01 PM
i mean there is no point to it and that's ok. do you never make art or music for yourself? i do it constantly!

would you do it if you didn't exist?

Non Stop Dancer

Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on May 05, 2021, 06:21:01 PM
i mean there is no point to it and that's ok. do you never make art or music for yourself? i do it constantly! it's a bonus to share
I do, actually, but sentience is a prerequisite to enjoying it.

Zetetic

Quote from: Kankurette on May 05, 2021, 06:16:27 PM
But other blue tits would appreciate it.
No, they wouldn't. Jerky clockwork devices, blue tits.

(Sparrows might be capable of appreciating stuff, after a fashion.)

Non Stop Dancer

Just to take this in a slightly different direction, because I've often tried analysing my thoughts on this. I do make music, and I used to do a lot of nature photography, and I genuinely do so for my own enjoyment. With my music in particular, there's practically no audience for it but I do wonder if I'd do it if it weren't for the small possibility of someone expressing a fondness for it. How about you?

chveik

it's more an expression of political powerlessness than anything else

and it can pretty fucking funny at times too

Retinend

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 06:32:59 PM
Just to take this in a slightly different direction, because I've often tried analysing my thoughts on this. I do make music, and I used to do a lot of nature photography, and I genuinely do so for my own enjoyment. With my music in particular, there's practically no audience for it but I do wonder if I'd do it if it weren't for the small possibility of someone expressing a fondness for it. How about you?

re: audience - If I make music it's with the intention that it will be one day good enough to play to someone else. Otherwise I lose interest in that piece of music I'm trying and failing at, because I can't overcome some obstacle that's resulting in an unsatisfactory performance.

But on the other hand there is such a thing as practice that is purely for the enjoyment of the process of practicing. But if you just do that all the time you have no feedback from the world about the value of what you are doing. Outsider Art. Practice should be done with the aim of improving how something will sound/appear to another person. Hence, great artists have a muse.

Buelligan

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 06:13:34 PM
Sort of. Huge fan of nature, think we should be careful, respectful custodians of the planet, but honestly what's the point of a blue tit were it not for us cooing over it? You wouldn't make music if there were nobody there to listen to it would you.

I know I'm not the centre of the universe.  I know when I'm dead things will just continue.  I don't care about that, other than to sincerely hope it's true.  Honestly cannot even relate to the idea that nothing matters unless a human says so - that's like so super-weird it's just like some sort of mega-species-fascism that's impossible to believe anyone actually believes, have to conclude I don't understand what you mean.

Retinend

Quote from: Buelligan on May 05, 2021, 06:56:19 PM
I know I'm not the centre of the universe.

If human beings no longer existed, what would a "better world" then look like? Genuine question.

popcorn

Quote from: Buelligan on May 05, 2021, 06:56:19 PM
Honestly cannot even relate to the idea that nothing matters unless a human says so - that's like so super-weird it's just like some sort of mega-species-fascism that's impossible to believe anyone actually believes, have to conclude I don't understand what you mean.

I see it the opposite way round - I think the idea that things in the universe have any significance beyond subjective human imagining is weirdly arrogant. Meaning is just something we project onto the universe to cope with it. The flowers don't give a shit.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Retinend on May 05, 2021, 07:00:38 PM
If human beings no longer existed, what would a "better world" then look like? Genuine question.

Oceans and rivers not full of plastic for one thing (after a few hundreds years to allow it to decompose). I mean, we make the world better for ourselves and other humans (sometimes), but not for every other species/aspect of nature.

Buelligan

Quote from: Retinend on May 05, 2021, 07:00:38 PM
If human beings no longer existed, what would a "better world" then look like? Genuine question.

It would immediately be better because humans wouldn't be destroying it.  Better in this case meaning capable of continuing in balance so that all life forms can have their chance.

Quote from: popcorn on May 05, 2021, 07:02:51 PM
I see it the opposite way round - I think the idea that things in the universe have any significance beyond subjective human imagining is weirdly arrogant. Meaning is just something we project onto the universe to cope with it. The flowers don't give a shit.

Giving a shit about what?  I don't understand what that means.  The universe is significant because it is everything, with or without little humankind.

Non Stop Dancer

Quote from: Buelligan on May 05, 2021, 06:56:19 PM
I know I'm not the centre of the universe.  I know when I'm dead things will just continue.  I don't care about that, other than to sincerely hope it's true.  Honestly cannot even relate to the idea that nothing matters unless a human says so - that's like so super-weird it's just like some sort of mega-species-fascism that's impossible to believe anyone actually believes, have to conclude I don't understand what you mean.
How about if the planet, without us in it, was just some kind of primordial soup, or say a globe sized ball of maggots all squirming about. Would that be good? At what point is it "worth" existing, might be another way of putting it.

Retinend

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on May 05, 2021, 07:08:13 PM
Oceans and rivers not full of plastic for one thing (after a few hundreds years to allow it to decompose). I mean, we make the world better for ourselves and other humans (sometimes), but not for every other species/aspect of nature.

Exactly - after all that stuff has "healed", then what would a "better world" look like relative to the ecosystem in tooth and claw?

Vinnie01

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on May 05, 2021, 09:32:39 AM
I only ever feel those dark thoughts about violent thugs, murderers and rapists. These moments have to be used sparingly and not wasted on a witless town councilor, Foxy from the Foxy Bingo ads or the cunt who pushed in front of me at the till in Morrissons yesterday. It always feels rather impotent.

I know what you mean, particularly some enemies.

Buelligan

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on May 05, 2021, 07:09:43 PM
How about if the planet, without us in it, was just some kind of primordial soup, or say a globe sized ball of maggots all squirming about. Would that be good? At what point is it "worth" existing, might be another way of putting it.

Of course it would be good.  But it isn't a globe-sized ball of maggots.  I was up on the mountain today, swallows and hoopoes, dozens of different kinds of orchids, incredible insect life, large mammals like boar and foxes and deer, golden eagles ffs but the humans are busily encroaching every year.  Humans poisoning the earth, the air, the water.  Destroying ecosystems and scattering rubbish everywhere.  What other species is murdering the planet, making survival impossible, for all the others?

popcorn

Quote from: Buelligan on May 05, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Better in this case meaning capable of continuing in balance so that all life forms can have their chance.

Why is it better that all life forms can "have their chance"? Fairness is just an idea humans made up. So is "better".

Buelligan

Has nothing to do with fairness.  Has to do with life in its infinite diversity and the way humankind makes environments only able to sustain our own.  And when they've achieved that, they find they've killed themselves too.  Life, a beautiful machine that moronic humans break.

Retinend

Quote from: popcorn on May 05, 2021, 07:14:38 PMFairness is just an idea humans made up. So is "better".

That's what I think too. You can't say "it will be better when humans cease to exist", when there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" according to nature in tooth and claw.

Buelligan

As I said, it has nothing at all to do with fairness.