A real dead ringer

[idunnosomename]

Jim Steinman gone. 73.

As well as longtime writer for Meatloaf, wrote Total Eclipse of the Heart and Holding Out For a Hero for Bonnie Tyler.

[MrMrs]

rip

[rue the polywhirl]

73 ain't bad.

rip

I bet you say that to all of the dead.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I always liked the fact that Jim Steinman operated as this sort of knowingly ridiculous high-camp pop eccentric who reveled in the art of making enjoyably stupid records.

He was critic-proof in the sense that everything he did was supposed to sound overblown and somewhat laughable. He always knew exactly what he was doing. It was all a big joke, but at the same time he took his craft seriously. He wasn't a sneering ironist like Zappa, he really did love rock and roll. He also enjoyed taking the piss.

Bat Out of Hell is a great album, an endearingly grand and shlocky conceptual statement, and Total Eclipse of the Heart is a classic '80s wind-machine banger. But his single greatest moment for me, Clive, is Dead Ringer for Love. How could anybody not like that song? It's just so much fun.

[DrGreggles]

I always liked the fact that Jim Steinman operated as this sort of knowingly ridiculous high-camp pop eccentric who reveled in the art of making enjoyably stupid records.

He was critic-proof in the sense that everything he did was supposed to sound overblown and somewhat laughable. He always knew exactly what he was doing. It was all a big joke, but at the same time he took his craft seriously. He wasn't a sneering ironist like Zappa, he really did love rock and roll. He also enjoyed taking the piss.

Bat Out of Hell is a great album, an endearingly grand and shlocky conceptual statement, and Total Eclipse of the Heart is a classic '80s wind-machine banger. But his single greatest moment for me, Clive, is Dead Ringer for Love. How could anybody not like that song? It's just so much fun.

Can't argue with any of that.

R.I.P. Jim

[Nice Relaxing Poo]

He had talent, money but alas no pulse. Seems like two out of three can be bad. RIP Jim.

[kalowski]

Jim Steinman gone. 73.

As well as longtime writer for Meatloaf, wrote Total Eclipse of the Heart and Holding Out For a Hero for Bonnie Tyler.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Jockice]

Can't argue with any of that.

R.I.P. Jim

Neither can I.

[Chicory]

Hey now, hey now now.

[SpiderChrist]

Bat Out of Hell is a great album, an endearingly grand and shlocky conceptual statement, and Total Eclipse of the Heart is a classic '80s wind-machine banger. But his single greatest moment for me, Clive, is Dead Ringer for Love. How could anybody not like that song? It's just so much fun.

I'm not glad he's dead, let's just get that out of the way first.

However, nope. Never got it. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Total Eclipse of the Heart and Holding Out For A Hero are two of the worst atrocities ever committed to tape. And Bat Out Of Hell just stinks the fucking place up. How could anybody not like Dead Ringer For Love? Best place to start is by listening to it, I suppose.

Maybe I just don't understand American humour.

[MrMrs]

cool, cheers

[Pauline Walnuts]

Hey now, hey now now.

Cold, burn like a healing hand

[The Mollusk]

I always liked the fact that Jim Steinman operated as this sort of knowingly ridiculous high-camp pop eccentric who reveled in the art of making enjoyably stupid records.

He was critic-proof in the sense that everything he did was supposed to sound overblown and somewhat laughable. He always knew exactly what he was doing. It was all a big joke, but at the same time he took his craft seriously. He wasn't a sneering ironist like Zappa, he really did love rock and roll. He also enjoyed taking the piss.

Bat Out of Hell is a great album, an endearingly grand and shlocky conceptual statement, and Total Eclipse of the Heart is a classic '80s wind-machine banger. But his single greatest moment for me, Clive, is Dead Ringer for Love. How could anybody not like that song? It's just so much fun.

Solid post. This is why I love his work and also rings true for my total gushing adoration for Ween, too. "Total Eclipse" is a fucking bonkers song, I always belt it out at karaoke sessions because it brings out the best in me, completely over the top and way too emotional to the point of being almost sickly. Belter.

[buzby]

Hey now, hey now now.

Aye.

Spiggy Eldritch sought him out to work on the Sisters' Floodland album, and he applied his typical 'everything including the kitchen sink' production values to the singles This Corrosion and Dominion/Mother Russia, and then again on More from the follow-up album Vision Thing.

Part of the reason for working with Steinman was to get a bigger recording budget out of WEA - they wouldn't cough up for choirs until Eldritch got Steinman on board.

[The Culture Bunker]

Mentioned on the obit thread that the song of his I enjoy most is 'Tonight Is What It Means To Be Young', from a crappy 80s flick called 'Streets of Fire' Never really got into any of his other songs, but the stuff he produced for the Sisters of Mercy were plenty fun.

[Barry Admin]

Said it before, but it was my (young) aunty sitting me down and explaining how long the intro was to Bat out of Hell, and what the lyrics meant, that showed me how to appreciate art. She gave me that record and I still have it and love it. It's fucking brilliant. And without it I don't think CaB would have started as it taught me also how great it is to pass your experience of art onto others via enthusiasm.

RIP

[Johnny Yesno]

Aye.

Spiggy Eldritch sought him out to work on the Sisters' Floodland album, and he applied his typical 'everything including the kitchen sink' production values to the singles This Corrosion and Dominion/Mother Russia, and then again on More from the follow-up album Vision Thing.

Part of the reason for working with Steinman was to get a bigger recording budget out of WEA - they wouldn't cough up for choirs until Eldritch got Steinman on board.

Oh, I always wondered whose fault Floodland was. I'm with Spiderchrist: it's incredibly easy to dislike Steinman's work.

RIP, though.

[Tony Tony Tony]

Heaven Can't Wait.

Steinman seems to divide folks into those who 'get' his overblown pomp rock and consequently love his stuff. Then there are those who have no sense of the ridiculous so dislike his output.

I fall very much into the former camp. Seeing Meatloaf perform on the Whistle Test was a seminal moment and I still vividly recall being in the pub on New Year's Eve when they did the OGWT end of year show and showed Meat again.

Not too long ago I got to see Bat Out Of Hell the musical and Steinmans songs fitted perfectly, not surprising as the original Bat was touted as a musical, some of the songs had me in tears during the show with the motorcycle crash scene being one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen live. When they reprised Bat for the encore the whole theatre was on its feet and dancing in the aisles.

RIP dude. Total feckin genius.

[thecuriousorange]

Steinman seems to divide folks into those who 'get' his overblown pomp rock and consequently love his stuff. Then there are those who have no sense of the ridiculous so dislike his output.

And the third camp. People who like it ironically.

[Johnny Yesno]

Steinman seems to divide folks into those who 'get' his overblown pomp rock and consequently love his stuff. Then there are those who have no sense of the ridiculous so dislike his output.

I have a functioning sense of the ridiculous, thanks. I like the Cramps.

If anything, Steinman's work isn't ridiculous enough. It's just irritating.

[Johnny Yesno]

And the third camp. People who like it ironically.

That's the same as camp 1, isn't it?

'Stupid people think it's cool, smart people think it's a joke; also cool.'

[Gulftastic]

His work is like the big daft action films of the 80's. Overblown, rubbish, but ridiculously listenable and tons of fun.

[kalowski]

Wasn't his work just a rip off of Jungleland?

[bakabaka]

Seeing Meatloaf perform on the Whistle Test was a seminal moment and I still vividly recall being in the pub on New Year's Eve when they did the OGWT end of year show and showed Meat again.

Yes, I still vividly remember the divorce ending they did for Paradise by the Dashboard Lights on the OGWT performance, starting with Meat Loaf almost killing Karla DeVito at the end[nb]https://youtu.be/NUcEVkfuZ9U?t=571[/nb]. Gloriously camp pantomime. And a wonderful pisstake on all those 60's 'getting in her pants by saying you love her' songs.


eta: ...though the "Bitch!" and "Fuck You!" may be why it made such an impression. Not something you heard on the BBC in those days.

[pupshaw]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Out_of_Hell

Band
Meat Loaf – lead vocals, backing vocals (6), percussion (2)
Todd Rundgren – guitar (1, 2, 4–6), percussion (1, 2), keyboards (1), backing vocals (1–3, 5, 6)
Kasim Sulton (misspelled as "Sultan" in vinyl liner notes) – bass guitar (1, 2, 4–7), backing vocals (1)
Roy Bittan – piano, keyboards (all except 7)
Steve Margoshes – piano (7)
Cheryl Hardwick – piano (7)
Jim Steinman – keyboards (1, 2, 6), percussion (1, 2), spoken word (2), "lascivious effects" (6)
Roger Powell – synthesizer (1, 2, 5, 6)

Jim Steinman is entitled to his fame and reputation, but nobody would have heard of him if it wasn't for Todd Rundgren, who I haven't seen mentioned once in all the tributes, or even in this thread.

The album had been rejected by every record company for the same reasons why Todd knew it had to to be made.  He made it happen. No question

But at least Todd is still alive.

[Echo Valley 2-6809]

I noted the absence of any mention of Rundgren in the tributes, but I suppose most people reading news sites would be more interested in the main artists.[nb]Although Rundgren did sing a duet with Bonnie Tyler on an overblown Steinman song in the vein of Total Eclipse that was a minor hit (Loving You's A Dirty Job (But Somebody's Got To Do It))[/nb]
As you say, Rundgren underwrote the cost of the album himself. It's possible Steinman would have just continued in musical theatre otherwise.

Steinman himself was always effusive about Rundgren's importance - like when he talks about his motorcycle guitar solo on the title track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeDn3teKUM

ETA: Similar video but this one has the actual isolated solo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thp8-MI7hyE

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

And the third camp. People who like it ironically.

Steinman was steeped in irony. And utter sincerity.

It's possible to like ridiculous things which are supposed to be ridiculous without being tediously ironic about it all. Jim Steinman's music was incredibly entertaining and 'stoopid'. It's not as if he made it sound like that by accident.

[The Mollusk]

Liking things ironically is a myth. Those people actually enjoy the thing but they're too ashamed to admit it.

[buzby]

Oh, I always wondered whose fault Floodland was.

He only worked on those three singles from Floodland and Vision Thing as co-producer. Everything else on those albums was Eldritch's work.

[SpiderChrist]

Steinman seems to divide folks into those who 'get' his overblown pomp rock and consequently love his stuff. Then there are those who have no sense of the ridiculous so dislike his output.

Of course, that'll be it.

This thread has been enlightening, I had no idea that Meatloaf/Steinman were held in such affection and admiration. I shall snark no more.

I went on a school trip to Austria when I was 14. Two weeks on a coach, and the driver only had two cassettes to play - one was a recent Top 20 rundown taped off the radio, and the other was Bat Out Of Hell. Following complaints from some when the top 20 tape contained PiL's Flowers Of Romance ("A dreadful noise", "it's punk rock" etc etc ad fucking nauseam) it was decided that Bat Out Of Hell would be our soundtrack for almost the entirety of the trip (despite me and a mate buying a cassette each in a Vienna music shop as potential alternatives). Nearly forty years on and I still can't listen to it.