Author Topic: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music  (Read 13081 times)

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2021, 03:03:33 PM »
By comparison, the Dickies '(I'm Stuck in a Pagoda With) Tricia Toyota' is pretty tasteful, but it's yet another song with a cod-Oriental 'diddle-diddle-dee' riff and the backing vocals on the chorus are 'ah so'.

I was talking about this the other day with a friend (I was maintaining that Dawn of the Dickies is a better album than Incredible Shrinking ....). He replied that it was a good record, but it's really racist.

What, I replied. The Tricia Toyata song? I mean, yeah, it's not exactly enlightened, but ...

'I'm a Cholo,' he countered.

'Oh ... yeah,' I conceded.

'And have you ever read the lyrics to Shadow Man?' he enquired.

'Erm, no.' So I did.

Quote from:  The Dickies finest White Power anthem aka Shadow Man
He's in the alley he's big and tall
He's got no family he makes me smile
Black man black man black man black man
Black man black man black man black man
Shadow man 'cause he's a shadow man
Black man black man black man black man
Black man black man black man black man
Shadow man yeah shadow man
He's got the rhythm he likes to dance
He likes white women he wants romance
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Homminy grits and watermelon
Blackeyed peas and armageddon
Yeah yeah becausa he lova you

'Oh for fuck's sake!'

Probably shouldn't come as a huge surprise that Leonard the singer, when he's not calling women 'fat pigs' on the Vans Warped Tour, is a major anti-masker Trump idiot. Stan Lee is still cool, though. Which is something, I guess ...

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2021, 03:39:37 PM »
"Kabuki Girl" by the Descendents goes:

Quote
your face is white
your hair is black
you will probably stab my back


Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2021, 03:55:21 PM »
Girls, Girls, Girls by Jay-Z is pretty dodgy throughout

Quote
I got this Spanish chica, she don't like me to roam
So she call me cabron plus marricon
Said she likes to cook rice so she likes me home
I'm like, "Un momento" mami, slow up your tempo
I got this black chick, she don't know how to act
Always talkin' out her neck, makin' her fingers snap
She like, "Listen Jigga Man, I don't care if you rap
You better R-E-S-P-E-C-T me"
I got this French chick that love to french kiss
She thinks she's Bo Derek, wear her hair in a twist
My, Cherie amour, to a belle
Merci, you fine as fuck but you givin' me hell
I got this Indian squaw the day that I met her
Asked her what tribe she with, red, dot or feather
She said all you need to know is I'm not a ho
And to get with me you better be Chief Lots-a-Dough
Now that's Spanish chick, French chick, Indian and black
That's fried chicken, curry chicken, damn I'm gettin' fat
Arroz con pollo, french fries and crepe
An appetite for destruction but I scrape the plate

Quote
Got a chick from Peru, that sniff Peru
She got a cousin at customs that get shit through
Got this weed-head chick, she always catch me doing shit
Crazy girl want to leave me but she always forgets
Got this Chinese chick, had to leave her quick
Cause she kept bootlegging my shit, man
I got this African chick with Eddie Murphy on her skull
She like, "Jigga Man, why you treat me like animal?"
I'm like excuse me Ms. Fufu, but when I met your ass
You was dead broke and naked, and now you one half
I got this ho that after twelve million sold
Mami's a narcoleptic, always sleeping on Hov'
Gotta tie the back of her head like Deuce Bigalow
I got so many girls across the globe

I mean, it's probably a bit more knowing than plenty of other examples of the "women from other cultures/races are an exotic novelty but they have their weird foreign ways" canon, which is of course absolutely rife in music from white rock artists too - always thought the line about Bo Derek was maybe a comment on white people appropriating Black culture (as she was the original "white person getting praised for wearing Black hairstyles") - but it's still pretty cringe.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2021, 05:38:17 PM »
We've not had Island Girl yet?

Vile.

Quote
I see your teeth flash, Jamaican honey so sweet
Down where Lexington cross 47th Street
She’s a big girl, she’s standing six foot three
Turning tricks for the dudes in the big city

Island girl
What you wanting with the white man’s world
Island girl
Black boy want you in his island world
He want to take you from the racket boss
He want to save you but the cause is lost
Island girl, island girl, island girl
Tell me what you wanting with the white man’s world

She’s black as coal but she burn like a fire
And she wrap herself around you like a well worn tire
You feel her nail scratch your back just like a rake
He one more gone, he one more John who make the mistake

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2021, 06:26:00 PM »
Take pinch of white man...

Of course, but especially when sung by Derek Griffiths on an open-top bus in the middle of Chinatown while doing the slitty-eyes thing with his fingers.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2021, 08:24:19 PM »
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.

Glebe

  • Do you like our owl threads?
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2021, 08:46:42 PM »
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.

And doing blackface and all.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2021, 01:51:25 AM »
For sheer variety of casual racism and other offensiveness - that one track from the utterly insane Peter Wyngarde album.

zomgmouse

  • I love carrots
    • BEN VOLCHOK DOT COM
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2021, 02:58:03 AM »
Although it's apparently written in response to racist attacks on a takeaway, Hong Kong Garden by Siouxise and the Banshees has several lines that probably wouldn't fly nowadays, such as "Slanted eyes meet a new sunrise / A race of bodies small in size" as well as using a rather stereotypical "Oriental" riff.

Yeah was never too sure about this one to be honest.

Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I notice "Apeman" and in general The Kinks have been mentioned, there's a pretty icky Jewish caricature voice at the end of "Top of the Pops that's never sat right with me".

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2021, 04:43:46 AM »
.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 05:02:27 AM by Ballad of Ballard Berkley »

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2021, 10:04:29 AM »
Yeah was never too sure about this one to be honest.

Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I notice "Apeman" and in general The Kinks have been mentioned, there's a pretty icky Jewish caricature voice at the end of "Top of the Pops that's never sat right with me".
I know she does a dodgy Aussie accent but I thought that song was protesting about white Australians’ treatment of Aboriginal Australians, unless you mean her singing about the Dreamtime is appropriation.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2021, 11:51:13 AM »
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2021, 12:03:30 PM »
Quote
Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I've just read that 'The Dreaming' was originally titled 'The Abo Song' until 'Bush and EMI were informed that "Abo" is a racial slur in Australia'. The promo copies in circulation were recalled and the track was renamed.

https://www.discogs.com/Kate-Bush-The-Dreaming-Abo-Song/release/6919933

I think it's just Kate trying (perhaps a little clumsily) to empathise creatively with the suffering of a culture far removed from her own. As the recall cited above demonstrates, she wasn't trying to be deliberately insensitive (rather the opposite) - but it also demonstrates the weaknesses in the idea that an artist can write about anything they like, from any perspective.[1]

Kate Bush's biggest sin is cockney armed robber cultural appropriation in 'There Goes a Tenner'.
 1. not an idea I'm necessarily opposed to. After all, the (heavily researched) script for the brilliant Four Lions, penned by the distinctly white Chris Morris, Sam Bain, and Jesse Armstrong, features a lot of slurs that you wouldn't want to hear from their own mouths.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2021, 12:26:25 PM »
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html
Team No-One. And Burchill is an antisemitic piece of shit too so she can fuck right off.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2021, 06:01:02 PM »
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html

Thanks for this. I was listening to The Scream a lot recently and wanted to reread that review for the laugh. I've been reading out little chunks to my partner and it's properly winding her up. We've only got this far

Quote from: A Fucking Child
Start with an instrumental circa "Warsawza". Instrumentals are pretentious as shit, I don’t care who does them. Chuck Berry never felt the need to, so screw you, Sioux.

but we've had a lot of 'enjoyment' from it already. The highlight so far was describing Adam Ant, Japan and Ultravox as no-hopers (admittedly from the vantage point of 1978, but her work from this era is full of similarly useless predictions). She's always been a terrible writer and The Boy Looked At Johnny is the cuntiest music book I have, or likely will, ever read (and I've done the first 50 pages of Gene Simmons' book).

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2021, 06:15:02 PM »
Christ that was a shitty review, although I agree that swanning around in a swastika armband is a shitty thing to do.

chveik

  • crazy bit of business
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2021, 06:21:27 PM »
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really

NoSleep

  • Me and the hedgehog, we bursting the tyres all day
    • Space Is The Place
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2021, 06:39:36 PM »
Quote from: repulsive individual
Instrumentals are pretentious as shit, I don’t care who does them. Chuck Berry never felt the need to, so screw you, Sioux.

Chuck gets all Can-esque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUT1gSV8YTo

Trust a writer to be more concerned with texts than with musical content.

Glebe

  • Do you like our owl threads?
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2021, 07:03:11 PM »
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.



I mean state of that.

kalowski

  • Maclunkey
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2021, 07:04:28 PM »


I mean state of that.
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2021, 07:16:30 PM »
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really

That's very true, and Siouxsie carries some blame, but Burchill just substitutes one set of ad hominem abuse for another.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM »
Already mentioned in the thread, but I heard African Man by Iggy Pop the other day for the first time and felt fairly icky.

Funnily enough I've known The Fall's version, Ibis Afro Man, for ages and had always assumed it was a piss take of gap year students or maybe I'm A Celebrity. Knew it was an Iggy cover but wasn't aware of it being regarded as a fairly dodgy track until more recently.

It probably helped that The Fall version dropped all the lyrics about hating the white man, but I look back at the remaining lyrics now and still wonder how I didn't think it was a sketchy tune.

On the subject of The Fall, what a bloody horrid shame The Classical has that lyric. The live version on In A Hole drops the line which makes me think/hope maybe he realised on some level how ropey it was despite being all cocky about it in interviews (claiming the lyric scuppered a record deal with Motown or something)

Country Teasers also have a lot of rum stuff as mentioned, especially the misogynistic and homophobic stuff. It's clearly all part of his mad cartoon villain persona but some of it is still hard to listen to.

Glebe

  • Do you like our owl threads?
Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2021, 08:25:38 PM »
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.

I imagine Kenny Lynch's funeral happened soon after he saw that.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2021, 08:31:17 PM »
On the subject of The Fall, what a bloody horrid shame The Classical has that lyric.

I like how at that bit in the song the bass plays a bendy wrong note like its making an "oo-er" face in the background.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2021, 08:39:10 PM »
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really
The lads from The Clash did it until Bernie Rhodes got very angry with them and told them to pack it in.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2021, 08:56:35 PM »
Thanks for this. I was listening to The Scream a lot recently and wanted to reread that review for the laugh. I've been reading out little chunks to my partner and it's properly winding her up. We've only got this far...

Interesting, Burchill makes no reference about the inspiration for Metal Postcard being John Heartfield, the famous artists and anti-Nazi propagandist. Presumably, this was due to reasons of space.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2021, 09:00:19 PM »
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.

Pretty sure this is a mocked-up picture from a story on Newsthump:

https://newsthump.com/2014/10/22/mike-read-apologises-for-blacking-up-in-ukip-calypso-video/

But can see how people would think it was real given the concept of that record which just makes you think "sigh" and "UKIP single-handedly proving true all their stereotypes."

Even my incredibly right-wing Tory MP said "Why have they chosen a Jamaican calypso, which really represents a whole section of society they want to close the door to?

"I suppose it is their way of saying 'We are not racist', but it shows how out of touch they are."

Yes, it's this guy.




Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2021, 09:08:01 PM »
Christ that was a shitty review, although I agree that swanning around in a swastika armband is a shitty thing to do.

Aye and when reading Siouxsie's explanation, the words 'well, as long as you had a good reason' hardly spring to mind.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2021, 09:12:16 PM »
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really

More punk, really, which can be seen in a lot of the photos of the period and McLaren/Westwood's clothes. There was a fair bit in 1976, such as Siouxsie wearing the armband (and argument could be made that Burchill's point was a couple of years late) and as Jon Savage points out, this kind of flirtation with fascist imaginary wasn't unique to punk.

Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2021, 09:14:03 PM »
The lads from The Clash did it until Bernie Rhodes got very angry with them and told them to pack it in.

There's one account of when the Pistols and the Clash were playing (the 1976 punk festival at the 100 Club, IIRC), and Rhodes got into a massive argument with McLaren, who was handing out swastika armbands (one of which was taken by Siouxsie). McLaren backed down after the Clash threatened to up (drum) sticks.

McLaren by various accounts was fascinated/obsessed with Nazi imagery.

Tags: