Are the British lazy?

[bgmnts]

So I was thinking today after my failed stint at the factory, and realising - like in every high workload/high volume industrial workplace - that most of the staff are eastern European, mostly Polish.  I was wondering, are we generally hard working, as a people? I'm honest enough to say that work ethic doesn't exist in me, I've spent my life in offices, pushing meaningless numbers and letters around on screens, sapping my life essence away one day at a time. However, that's much better than that intense, physically draining factory/production/waste work.

Is this a cultural thing? Are we just used to having it slightly better than other countries, thanks to the sacrifices our forbearers put in, being worked to death in the collieries and ironworks etc? Are we lazy? Depressed?

Weirdly, I really liked my paper round as a teenager, maybe thats because I felt like I was my own boss and I had that responsibility.

[idunnosomename]

didnt read but yes

[Kankurette]

I thought it was more the case that unscrupulous bosses liked to hire Poles because, to said bosses, they were more desperate and easier to exploit.

[bgmnts]

I thought it was more the case that unscrupulous bosses liked to hire Poles because, to said bosses, they were more desperate and easier to exploit.

Yes of course this too. The woman I met in that morning was 51, skinny as a reed, bad back etc, but presumably had to get this sort of work because her English wasn't as proficient. There are quite a few Polish people in recruitment companies that specialise in these industries too.

But, surely if there is a minimum wage, there is no difference between hiring a British person and a Polish person?

[frajer]

We ruled the world like absolute legends, so I reckon kicking back and chilling for 70 or 80 years is completely fair and can't hurt our global standing.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah probably.

It's also a lot easier to see the practical application of your work in some sort of production line. If you're a paperwork creator in an office it might not be immediately clear what useful function your outputs serve (if any), so how can you be expected to take pride in it?

[Tony Tony Tony]

I had pretty much the same experience as the OP when I took a job between jobs at an Amazon warehouse. I was damned glad to get out on account of it being hard work so I could get back to the far less demanding (and better paid) pushing of buttons on a keyboard. My limited experience of the Brits who were there was that they didn't last long as they seemed to think the type of physical work was beneath them so maybe that's the key... we have got out of the habit of the demanding and difficult work and now have to import muscle to do it on our behalf. It helps that the imported workers are desperate to have a job so they will work long hours for a relative pittance but what amazes me is what the fuck it most be like in their homelands if coming over here is a good option?

Also there was one particular incident at Amazon that sticks in my mind. You would regularly be stopped during your shift for a pat down search just in case you were secreting any of the goodies in the warehouse about your person. We were told this was entirely random as the 'targets' were selected by computer. I saw a Burberry clad Brit get stopped one shift and he exploded with rage at the effrontery. Needles to say he was frogmarched out of the warehouse fulfillment centre.

[Thomas]

It depends who's using the word 'lazy', and about whom. If it's some Tory MP or a friend's posh dad, you know they're yearning for the seven-day week and a landed estate of farming renters,[nb]as it happens, the laziest Brits in history are probably these wealthy lords of the manor.[/nb] or at least the exploitative modern practices that Kankurette mentions.

I think what sometimes comes off as laziness is often actually a good thing. The soul of man under gradually extracted small perks. Over the centuries, workers in Britain have slowly chipped away at their crushing conditions, and now we enjoy weekends, shorter days, sick leave. I hope to see UBI in my lifetime. Terms like 'work ethic' and 'hardworking' are so often propagandist. My partner (not British) worked hard at a supermarket and earned a slipped disc. I wish she'd been able to go a bit more lazily about her work.

My first job was as an admin droid at a factory. Most days I'd visit a store cupboard on the pretence of 'filing', and sit on a stack of folders with a book and a cup of tea. This was physically and mentally lazy as far as my boss might have been concerned, but I have to say I was keenly, actively interested in the book.

[The Culture Bunker]

It's hard for me to say because I've not worked/lived in any other country - but it does seem possible here, if you have a bit of intelligence, to get by without having to put too much effort in. Of course, plenty of people graft like fuck - but there are jobs where if you play it right, you can get a decent enough wage for doing about four or five hours of actual work a week. The hardest part is not looking like you're taking the piss.

[Norton Canes]

We wanted our bathroom retiling and a new sink putting in. Four valiant British tradespeople turned up over the course of a few weeks; each took a look round, made copious notes and promised to deliver a quote in short order.

Not heard from any of them since.

We wanted our garden borders clearing and replacing, and some trees replanting. The first guy we had round for a quote was Eastern European (called Attila, who we soon renamed 'Attila the Hunk'). The quote arrived the next day. We booked him. He turned up at 8am for three consecutive days of solid work, no banter, no radio, no long lunch breaks, no requirements for us to supply endless rounds of tea and biscuits. He did a fantastic job and left the garden looking immaculate.

Close thing.

[Ornlu]

Only the white ones.

[DrGreggles]

Ye...

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I think people in precarious employment and jobs with targets that when not hit are effectively a form of constructive dismissal tend to work very hard, through existential fear of not being able to meet basic needs. You have the shite housing situation in London too, with people working two jobs just to afford ...travel into central London to do those two jobs.

The discussion should not take place at this end though. We should be analysing what goes on at the top.

[Kelvin]

I suspect a lot of British People just don't like their jobs, respect their employers or take pride in their shit role. So of course they're not going to make more effort than is absolutely necessary to hold onto the position - which is still probably a lot of work, considering the pressure employers put people under as an alternative to hiring more staff.

As for immigrant workers making more effort, if that's actually true, my guess would be that a) the conditions are (relatively) better than the ones in their home country, so they feel more motivated than native workers, and/or b) they have more incentive to work their arses off, because we're a country of cunts that would chuck them out at the drop of a hat, and like someone working extra hard in their probation period at a new job, they feel like they have to go the extra mile.

[Fambo Number Mive]

We wanted our bathroom retiling and a new sink putting in. Four valiant British tradespeople turned up over the course of a few weeks; each took a look round, made copious notes and promised to deliver a quote in short order.

Not heard from any of them since.

We wanted our garden borders clearing and replacing, and some trees replanting. The first guy we had round for a quote was Eastern European (called Attila, who we soon renamed 'Attila the Hunk'). The quote arrived the next day. We booked him. He turned up at 8am for three consecutive days of solid work, no banter, no radio, no long lunch breaks, no requirements for us to supply endless rounds of tea and biscuits. He did a fantastic job and left the garden looking immaculate.

Close thing.

Could the four British tradespeople just have had too many jobs on and wanted to focus on other jobs that may have been better paying?

I think Thomas is closest to my views on this. In my working life I've worked with people of various nationalities (including British people of course), the huge majority of which worked very hard. I haven't noticed British workers being more "lazy" than other workers. I think some people also end up in the wrong job and come across as "lazy" when they are struggling against a job that really doesn't suit them. Of course some jobs are a struggle for everyone, such as working in an Amazon warehouse.

We need a world where jobs are as easy to do as possible and I think the best way towards this is strengthening the trade union movement, boycotting companies that treat their workers badly and supporting parties like the TUSC. 

[Jasha]

As for immigrant workers making more effort, if that's actually true, my guess would be that a) the conditions are (relatively) better than the ones in their home country, so they feel more motivated than native workers, and/or b) they have more incentive to work their arses off, because we're a country of cunts that would chuck them out at the drop of a hat, and like someone working extra hard in their probation period at a new job, they feel like they have to go the extra mile.

Pretty much this, a lot that I work with are saving up for something or have financial commitments at home rather than plodding on day to day which is why they're all overtime crazy. Its like piranhas when the overtime sheet is pinned up, one guy got the hump with me for refusing to let him work 4 weekends on the trot which does leave you feeling an asshole whatever way you decide

[holyzombiejesus]

I think we need to rid the word lazy of it's negative connotations. I just had a lie down on my bed instead of reviewing a care plan and it was fucking lovely. Going to sit outside and have a can of pop in a bit.

The African guy who worked at the children's home with me used to call me 'the lazy Labour man'.

[Thomas]

There's also a countervailing attitude, which demonstrates that Thatcherite 'hard work' propaganda is effective. Quite a few times I've heard people proudly say that they'd never claim dole, no matter their circumstances, as if to seek assistance in difficult moments is a lazy weakness. A stigma has settled.

One day, people - reclining in their hammocks after a sensibly relaxed day's work at the collectively owned vegan farm - will look back in bemusement on our weird work-vs-debt dichotomy, a big game of hard work in which the losers becomes homeless and that's normal.

I used to work long hours at a call centre and it was miserable. I now work shorter, more productive hours at an enjoyable job, and I can apply far more mental rigour to my creative pursuits. Just had a can of pop, in fact, and I hope hzj enjoys his. The rent kills us but for now we have our pop.

[Inspector Norse]

As for immigrant workers making more effort, if that's actually true, my guess would be that a) the conditions are (relatively) better than the ones in their home country, so they feel more motivated than native workers, and/or b) they have more incentive to work their arses off, because we're a country of cunts that would chuck them out at the drop of a hat, and like someone working extra hard in their probation period at a new job, they feel like they have to go the extra mile.

Yeah, the bone-idle handyman trope is not just limited to Britain; I've had the same issue in Sweden of people procrastinating or taking twice as long as necessary (also their habit of just leaving shit like extra shelves, screws and so on lying around when they're done) while the plumber we had to call the other day was Middle Eastern and turned up after half an hour and fixed the problem straight away.

Charged us an arm, a leg, several other extremities and the kids' torsoes, mind, but that's a separate issue.

[Endicott]

Could the four British tradespeople just have had too many jobs on and wanted to focus on other jobs that may have been better paying?

It's mainly this, although poor communication also comes into it. I mean, why even quote for a job you're not going to do? (answering that myself, it's because they need a fall back in case one of their other jobs falls through). All the trades people I know, and there are many, are all booked up solid for months.

[MojoJojo]

As for immigrant workers making more effort, if that's actually true, my guess would be that a) the conditions are (relatively) better than the ones in their home country, so they feel more motivated than native workers, and/or b) they have more incentive to work their arses off, because we're a country of cunts that would chuck them out at the drop of a hat, and like someone working extra hard in their probation period at a new job, they feel like they have to go the extra mile.

It's self selecting thing isn't it - if you're lazy you're not going to immigrate to another country to work a demanding job. The lazy Poles are all in Poland.

[Norton Canes]

Could the four British tradespeople just have had too many jobs on and wanted to focus on other jobs that may have been better paying?

Is possible. And you know what? If all four had have said to me "Sorry, I've got too many jobs on and want to focus on other jobs that may be better paying" I'd have be fine with that, ta mate, appreciate your honesty.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's self selecting thing isn't it - if you're lazy you're not going to immigrate to another country to work a demanding job. The lazy Poles are all in Poland.

It's not, or at least wasn't, exactly difficult to spend £20 on a plane ticket and go and live and work in the UK, definitely not as much of an obstacle to a multilingual continental European with an established network of contacts to help get set up, versus an English person with no language skills used to all the foreigns bending over backwards to help them (And even they can manage to use the Ryanair app and pack a bag). It's pretty straightforward: I need money for me and family to live, where are jobs, here are jobs, can I go there legally, ok I go there. I'm not sure you need to be a thoroughbred go-getter, you just need to be not arsed about where the work is, or, to a point, what it is.

Poland's GDP figures would suggest that they're not exactly struggling productively on a domestic level.

[drummersaredeaf]

There's an academic paper out there talking about how Eastern European workers are perceived to be better by managers at first but then become 'domesticated' and therefore lazy.

The paper finds that what actually happens is they feel afraid to turn down any request that is asked of them, live precariously, and have little in the way of support around them otherwise. After a few months they realise they can tell the management to piss off with their 65 hour weeks and not lose their job, and so that's what they start to do.

[All Surrogate]

We wanted our garden borders clearing and replacing, and some trees replanting. The first guy we had round for a quote was Eastern European (called Attila, who we soon renamed 'Attila the Hunk').

What's his number? I have some ... er ... trees that need replanting too.

[Glebe]

These are just 'lazy' stereotypes!

[JaDanketies]

Back when I was an employee I would've absolutely fucking hated going above-and-beyond for my bosses. If I found a way to save their business thousands of pounds, I would've told them about it, but I would have done so begrudgingly. I'd quite often just walk around the building for half an hour. If it was a cooperative or if they had paid me better then I might have given a shit, but frankly I felt like I had no stake in the business whatsoever.

Now I am self-employed, I am a very hard worker.

I completely understand why British people might not put in more than the bare minimum effort once they've got their feet under the table. I guess that Poles put in more effort because they feel like their employment is more tenuous.

[mothman]

Brits aren't lazy, we're complacent. We've grown up with the assumption of a social safety net. By and large that doesn't exist anymore, no jobs for life etc. And what jobs there are... Christ. We've all done them. Too many CaBers still are, if bgmnt's recent experience is anything to go by. The "McJobs." They're boring, uninspiring, insecure, unrewarding. We feel like we could do better - all too often, increasingly so, we don't, we can't. I wonder what the working class of old thought of their lot - were they content to work in a factory for forty years and maybe if they were lucky be able to afford a car AND a television? I don't know. I don't want to go down the path of the noble working men of yore, or suggesting the youth of today lack some vital something.

But contrast all that wittering I just did with foreign workers who see this place as better than where we came from, more opportunities etc. So they do the jobs we scions of Empire think are beneath us. As drummersaredeaf says, they soon learn better. But there are plenty more to replace them. Meanwhile we natives mooch from job to job, with diminished expectations, and then go on to... I don't know what.

MrsMoth has always had a good work ethic, rarely out of work, built herself up, made a name for herself, is now outstanding in her field. I just sauntered along vaguely in her wake, and at some point I wasn't a contract IT support worker anymore but a mid-level civil servant. I spent years notionally sticking it to The Man (but in reality doing just enough to avoid The Man sticking it to me too often), and now I find I am The Man (or as close as anyone with an account of this forum could ever be).

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

I agree with nearly everyone here in that it's a number of factors - language barrier results in people take the "simplest" jobs available; immigrants who don't know their rights being exploited by unscrupulous bosses; people leaving their home country and going elsewhere specifically to work and send money home; business-savvy people who can't find a job going "fuck it" and setting up their own businesses. Meanwhile the "domestic" population are more familiar with employment law, the social welfare safety net (or what's left of it), are fluent in the native language thus enabling them to qualify for jobs where you need more fluency, etc.

[MoreauVasz]

They may or may not be lazy but they're certainly the least physically attractive people on Earth. If it wasn't for immigrants and people dragged over from former colonies there would have been no sex in this country since the Tudor period.