I hear you're a pest now, Noel Clarke?

[TrenterPercenter]

he's a fucking scum

No doubt; but his original victims views on her trial and case still have value.

[Blue Jam]

One important thing about the Ched Evans case, which wasn't reported much during the original trial but was mentioned in the press a bit more during the retrial, was that the woman involved didn't actually press the charges (or have the opportunity to drop them) and never actually accused anyone of anything: the police pressed the charges and she only ever said she had no memory of events. Still had to be given several new identities after people kept outing her, and I believe she moved to Ireland and then to Australia to escape the abuse. She also had a boyfriend leave her after she confided that she was the woman in the case. She's still been labelled a false accuser and had her life ruined when all she did was go to the police to report a missing handbag.

[Kankurette]

Did not know that and that makes it even worse.

[Spiteface]

His name is Ched and that's enough by itself.

[TrenterPercenter]

One important thing about the Ched Evans case, which wasn't reported much during the original trial but was mentioned in the press a bit more during the retrial, was that the woman involved didn't actually press the charges (or have the opportunity to drop them) and never actually accused anyone of anything: the police pressed the charges and she only ever said she had no memory of events. Still had to be given several new identities after people kept outing her, and I believe she moved to Ireland and then to Australia to escape the abuse. She also had a boyfriend leave her after she confided that she was the woman in the case. She's still been labelled a false accuser and had her life ruined when all she did was go to the police to report a missing handbag.

I also never knew this part of the story; is this the original case with the other man involved? have you got a link to where this information is? would be interested to have a read (obviously not doubting it for a second).

[TrenterPercenter]

Btw apologies Kankurette, I didn't know what Blue Jam just posted and that the woman in question had had to leave the country (twice!) so my comment that this was quite the opposite (I knew about the cousin thing but I thought her anonymity had largely been maintained) was not correct and ill judged.  Apologies.

[Harry Badger]

Sorry to point this out but again Ched Evans went to jail and subsequently lost a contract with Oldman Athletic

Mind, he could have been given a contract with Oldham Athletic, but that may have been considered cruel and unusual punishment.

[TrenterPercenter]

Mind, he could have been given a contract with Oldham Athletic, but that may have been considered cruel and unusual punishment.

You're not wrong Clive

[Blue Jam]

I also never knew this part of the story; is this the original case with the other man involved? have you got a link to where this information is? would be interested to have a read (obviously not doubting it for a second).

There's a mention of the "no memory of events" thing here:

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

I can't find a good summary now, but it was my understanding that the woman went to a police station solely about her handbag being missing, and because she mentioned waking up in a hotel room naked and with no memory of how she got there they were obliged to put a note on file. Then later that day Ched Evans reported a lost phone and mentioned being at the same hotel at the same time and police put two and two together and possibly came up with five.

My personal opinion is that while there was a lot of evidence to suggest that all those involved were in fact at the hotel that night, there probably still wasn't quite enough for this to go to trial, and bringing it to trial was a mistake and probably not what the woman involved wanted.

[Echo Valley 2-6809]

This was posted by Clarke's Kidulthood co-star Jaime Winstone before The Guardian story broke, I think. Appears to be her referring to his Outstanding Contribution BAFTA.

[TrenterPercenter]

There's a mention of the "no memory of events" thing here:

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

I can't find a good summary now, but it was my understanding that the woman went to a police station solely about her handbag being missing, and because she mentioned waking up in a hotel room naked and with no memory of how she got there they were obliged to put a note on file. Then later that day Ched Evans reported a lost phone and mentioned being at the same hotel at the same time and police put two and two together and possibly came up with five.

My personal opinion is that while there was a lot of evidence to suggest that all those involved were in fact at the hotel that night, there probably still wasn't quite enough for this to go to trial, and bringing it to trial was a mistake and probably not what the woman involved wanted.

It makes sense; the secret barristers blog says that this was also a case of crown prosecution vs defendant.  If I remember correctly there was a whole thing about Evans entering the hotel via an outside stairwell and window which is dodgy if we consider he was premeditatedly trying to obscure the fact he was there via cctv footage.

[TrenterPercenter]

This was posted by Clarke's Kidulthood co-star Jaime Winstone before The Guardian story broke, I think. Appears to be her referring to his Outstanding Contribution BAFTA.

Can I just admit something here.

I have no idea who Noel Clarke is (or Paul Embry for that matter); what has Daniel Kaluuya got to do with it all?

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah, what's that all about? I don't even think they've worked together, far as I know.

[Blue Jam]

It makes sense; the secret barristers blog says that this was also a case of crown prosecution vs defendant.  If I remember correctly there was a whole thing about Evans entering the hotel via an outside stairwell and window which is dodgy if we consider he was premeditatedly trying to obscure the fact he was there via cctv footage.

I think there was CCTV footage showing him leaving via a fire escape. Could have been because he was furtively escaping the scene of a rape, could have been because he simply didn't want his girlfriend finding out he'd had a threesome with his mate and a random woman. Who knows...

Really I just have to wonder why his girlfriend's dad was so supportive of him and stumped up so much cash for lawyers and private detectives. I doubt I would have done that for someone who may well have been innocent of rape but who still admitted to having cheated on my daughter the second the opportunity presented itself.

[TrenterPercenter]

Really I just have to wonder why his girlfriend's dad was so supportive of him and stumped up so much cash for lawyers and private detectives. I doubt I would have done that for someone who may well have been innocent of rape but who still admitted to having cheated on my daughter the second the opportunity presented itself.

"Mr Massey, what was it that first made you think about protecting the millionaire footballer your daughter was about to marry from charges of cheating on your daughter and possible rape?"

[Blue Jam]

Evans' girlfriend wasn't your stereotypical gold-digging WAG- I think her dad owned a chain of high-end jewellers or something, and I remember him saying he'd give Evans a job if his football career was over. I think she was quite possibly even wealthier than him! Hence why it was her family paying for the legal team rather than his.

(I followed this case quite closely, it really affected me)

[TrenterPercenter]

Evans' girlfriend wasn't your stereotypical gold-digging WAG- I think her dad owned a chain of high-end jewellers or something, and I remember him saying he'd give Evans a job if his football career was over. I think she was quite possibly even wealthier than him!

(I followed this case quite closely, it really affected me)

but I went and found a picture of Mrs Merton and everything........



but seriously, again I bow down to your superior knowledge here BJ that is weird.

[Pinball]

Well see them in court. I mean twitter.

[TrenterPercenter]

Hence why it was her family paying for the legal team rather than his.

Just checked he got 600k payout from Sheff United; where he as getting paid 3k a week; so again makes sense; I thought he would have been getting paid more but I remember now they were just in the process of getting promoted to the premiership and were still in the championship at that point.

[TrenterPercenter]

Well see them in court. I mean twitter.

Serious question; you don't really believe anyone is advocating putting innocent people in jail are you?

[Echo Valley 2-6809]

what has Daniel Kaluuya got to do with it all?

Yeah, what's that all about? I don't even think they've worked together, far as I know.

Clarke's BAFTA was for Outstanding Contribution to Cinema, so Winstone (who has spoken out against Clarke) saying about Kaluuya's Oscar "Now that's what you call OUTSTANDING CONTRIBUTION TO FILM" seemed to be a deliberately loaded putdown of Clarke.

[Blue Jam]

Trenter- I'll admit I got a bit obsessed with that case and let it upset me a bit too much, being a raging feminist and all.

Serious question; you don't really believe anyone is advocating putting innocent people in jail are you?

I have noticed a lot of commentary about "trial by media" and people suggesting that the police should handle the Noel Clarke case and no-one else. I think a lot of people are struggling to tell the difference criminal activity and workplace harassment. The latter isn't necessarily a police matter and is something that is (quite rightly) usually handled by an employer, trade body etc. So yes, BAFTA suspending a member and colleagues of Clarke warning others that he's a creep seems appropriate.

Especially as it seems the case of the naked audition being filmed actually was reported to police but no charge could be made as it wasn't a criminal offence at the time:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/02/noel-clarke-accuser-called-cops-on-star-but-they-couldnt-investigate-14507934/

[Kankurette]

Can I just admit something here.

I have no idea who Noel Clarke is (or Paul Embry for that matter); what has Daniel Kaluuya got to do with it all?

Noel Clarke was Mickey in Doctor Who (Christopher Eccleston era) and was also in Kidulthood. He's currently in a drama called Viewpoint. Paul Embery is some cunt who's into hardcore class reductionism and thinks people who are angry with Geoff Boycott beating his wife just don't understand northern working-class culture.

Blue Jam, I followed it as well and it really upset me. As for people who think Clarke is the innocent victim of a witch hunt, all I can say is there's an awful lot of people coming forward.

[mothman]

For some reason I always assumed Evans's girlfriend stuck with him because if he got through it all and resumed his career, she stood to become a proper WAG, hang out with Posh and Coleen and Rebecca and so forth. You know, actual fame; without the potential famous footballer partner, she was just another pretty girl with a rich daddy.

[Pinball]

Should social media influencers determine quantum (and without any form of due process to boot)? Is complete ruination for sub-criminal harassment justified, for example? When does that become grossly disproportionate, and hence harassment of a different kind? Who decides- the twitter mob? What is the modern role of company HR and legal departments, and indeed the justice system itself, if they mostly no longer matter? When would you consider this situation lawless and anarchistic?

IMO the summary execution nature of the current environment for sub-criminal behaviour is troubling, however much net good it may, or may not, do. As regards criminal, it could prevent as many convictions as it promotes.

Personally, I don't like mob rule.

[Kankurette]

Plenty of footballers' girlfriends and wives do do that, no matter how shitty their partners are. The Secret Footballer talks about how one woman came home to find her footballer husband fucking some other woman and just carried on like nothing had happened, and Rooney cheated multiple times, as did Maradona and Ferdinand (which is why I find his whole grieving father shtik a bit confusing considering how many women he was fucking behind Rebecca's back), but their wives stayed with them. So many of them have had work done and live in these immaculate homes and they're scared their partners will leave them, and even the young ones get cheated on. Loads of my favourite players are cheats. Neville Southall and Matt Le Tissier to name but two, and they're both married to the women they cheated on their wives with. I'd never marry a footballer because I'd be too paranoid.

And let's not even get into abusive twats like Best, Maradona, Shilton and Gazza.

Pinball, why are you defending Clarke? Why do you think he's innocent? How many women have to come forward before you believe them and not insist he's the real victim? I'm not even on Twitter much these days, for fuck's sake.

[Pinball]

Pinball, why are you defending Clarke? Why do you think he's innocent? How many women have to come forward before you believe them and not insist he's the real victim? I'm not even on Twitter much these days, for fuck's sake.

I am definitely not defending him. I'm genuinely concerned about the broader issues is all. And it's a difficult one, as change doesn't happen without some form of mass action, of course, yet I'd like to see rule of law rather than mob rule/disproportionate ruination of accusees.

What if there's a mis-trial because it's considered Clarke couldn't get a fair trial now? This means he would go free. Then case law may apply this to all such cases. So you see, I hope, I'm not defending him. This whole social media circus over the last few years could royally backfire, even to the point of bans vs social media platforms themselves. Laws are likely to change, because asking a mob to be ruly doesn't usually work...

[Better Midlands]

What if there's a mis-trial because it's considered Clarke couldn't get a fair trial now?

It's a valid point and could apply to the Derek Chauvin appeal also.

[Kankurette]

I am definitely not defending him. I'm genuinely concerned about the broader issues is all. And it's a difficult one, as change doesn't happen without some form of mass action, of course, yet I'd like to see rule of law rather than mob rule/disproportionate ruination of accusees.

What if there's a mis-trial because it's considered Clarke couldn't get a fair trial now? This means he would go free. Then case law may apply this to all such cases. So you see, I hope, I'm not defending him. This whole social media circus over the last few years could royally backfire, even to the point of bans vs social media platforms themselves. Laws are likely to change, because asking a mob to be ruly doesn't usually work...

OK, fair dos. I just get twitchy when this sort of thing comes up in the press because any woman who accuses a famous man of rape/abuse is accused herself of starting a witch hunt.

[mothman]

Plenty of footballers' girlfriends and wives do do that, no matter how shitty their partners are. The Secret Footballer talks about how one woman came home to find her footballer husband fucking some other woman and just carried on like nothing had happened, and Rooney cheated multiple times, as did Maradona and Ferdinand (which is why I find his whole grieving father shtik a bit confusing considering how many women he was fucking behind Rebecca's back), but their wives stayed with them. So many of them have had work done and live in these immaculate homes and they're scared their partners will leave them, and even the young ones get cheated on. Loads of my favourite players are cheats. Neville Southall and Matt Le Tissier to name but two, and they're both married to the women they cheated on their wives with. I'd never marry a footballer because I'd be too paranoid.

Which is what makes me think that if Wills's extramarital shenanigans somehow ever manage to hit the U.K. press despite the Royal machine doing its best to stop it, Kate will stick with him. After all, if she sucks it up she gets to be queen one day; otherwise she's just another ex-wife who's provided the heirs and we all know what happened to the last one in that situation.