Author Topic: OnlyFans and horses work.  (Read 7663 times)

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2021, 01:08:17 AM »
I don't want to act like exploitative sex work isn't  an issue because it very fucking is, but the root causes of it extrapolate to general and much larger issues with our current society and capitalist framework. Especially OF targeting people w/ anxiety and other issues that make more public-facing work unbearable. It sadly is a symptom rather than a cause of social problems. Nothing against sex work, I write ero lit and have done ero art on commission to pay the bills before, but I was fortunate enough to have the choice. A lot of these people don't. A lot of them would be working a brothel 100-50 years ago. Is it better now? Dunno. It isn't a simple question. It is however an ongoing problem brought about by a lack of UBI, in my opinion.
I also chose to do it for a variety of reasons. Some people would say that me having meltdowns over the way men online saw me makes me a SWERF because I feel like I’m only allowed to talk about the good side. I don’t want to go back to it tbh. I don’t miss the insane competitiveness. Also, that ad us a lie. Very few women make loads of money on OF and you do have to put out a lot of content. You are a product.

Trenter, I agree that harm reduction is important. I have mixed feelings on the sex industry (and I do wonder why so few men do sex work), but keeping people safe is what matters the most to me.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2021, 01:10:12 AM »
Damn, Trenter, go back to talking about OnlyFans, you were making sense. I was sitting here agreeing with you for a change.

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2021, 01:14:36 AM »
I’d also add that I catered for an extremely niche fetish and I’d have to branch out to make loads. And go on an extreme diet, shave my legs, spend loads on lighting equipment, and spend every day in the gym. Because that’s what punters expect. If you’re plain or fat, unless you’re a BBW pinup, you won’t make bupkes.

I mean, people were asking me to buy costumes, go to London and Cardiff, get friends to film me, film myself shopping/playing pool/bowling etc. And I’d wonder if it was worth it. Would they buy clips etc.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2021, 01:21:04 AM »
The gainer stuff sounds genuinely scary. Almost like people crowdfunding someone's early demise.

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2021, 07:39:01 AM »
This is just "the Internet" doing its thing again...

I remember when services like Cam4 and Chaturbate launched, my first thought was to smile at the fact that Charlie Brooker's old gag about a TV show in which Rowland Rivron wanks for pennies had not only come to pass but also been democratised. My second thought was the realisation that this was basically all that doing stuff on the Internet ever amounts to: You take something that you enjoy doing, you start doing it for an audience in the hope of making some money, this turns the once-pleasurable activity into a shitty part-time job and then you realise that the shitty part-time job doesn't pay very well and trying to make it pay has amputated any form of enjoyment you once got out of it.

This applies to wanking, getting fucked, putting on lingerie, writing, painting, talking about popular culture, taking photos, singing, cooking, sharing recipes... And on and on and on.

If it isn't cam4 and Chaturbate then it's onlyfans or YouTube, or Amazon, or Spotify, or Patreon: Your joy becomes a shitty job that makes less than minimum wage, meanwhile the platform owners get rich and share the wealth with the 1% at the top who make out like bandits at your expense.



Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2021, 07:51:52 AM »
Bloody wish I’d thought of onlyfans

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2021, 08:52:41 AM »
The gainer stuff sounds genuinely scary. Almost like people crowdfunding someone's early demise.
My 600lb Life has a fair few women married to feeders/gainers. They split up with their partners once said partners lost weight.

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2021, 09:21:32 AM »
Bloody wish I’d thought of onlyfans

I wish I could come up with an app idea that money cunts will allow me to develop, lose hundreds of millions annually on until some wealthier money cunts decide to buy it off me for billions. Then I can sit around my solid gold house, liver and onions etc.

Zetetic

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2021, 09:43:36 AM »
It is however an ongoing problem brought about by a lack of UBI, in my opinion.
Mmm. "Sex work is work" should at least imply "and therefore we should be working to eradicate it as fully as possible" (but not by doing things that it make more dangerous, more coercive or more unpleasant for labourers).



I sometimes think about how slavery was ended in the British Caribbean in the 1830s, just in time for the value of labour there to be pushed far lower by alternative sources (e.g. indentured labourers from India, forced prison labour) and the collapse in sugar prices by the end of the 19th century (driven by beet subsidies in European countries), and the wider lessons here about how hateful restrictive institutions are often only ended when the benefits obtained by those who exploited them can be realised by other means.


Blue Jam

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2021, 11:23:31 AM »
If people had actually listened to what Blue Jam was saying

Hello :)

I didn't get to post this before the thread was locked, but one reason why Twitter Woman bothered me so much was that I lost a friend over a cammer. We both used to post on a forum where one poster would occasionally post topless webcam pics and then go "Whoops, my boyfriend has hacked my account again, ignore that, I'm a nice girl really! Oh, if only I could find a nice man..." Most people saw this for what it was- an attention-seeker using a male-dominated forum to advertise her cam services- but if you throw out enough bait something will bite, and my friend became infatuated with her. He told me that we were all wrong about her, she really was a lovely person trapped in an abusive relationship, and he knew because he'd been chating to her over Skype and they had developed a real connection and he was saving up to visit her in the US... I just had to let him learn the hard way that this woman had developed some very real and special connections with numerous men on the forum and beyond. She also had this carefully cultivated image of naivety and childishness, posting in a kind of Valley Girl style, and it was very creepy- not only was it dishonest, it seemed she knew a lot of men would get off on the whole "naive innocent girl being sexual" thing.

...so yes, it's the dishonesty and the faux naivety that get to me here. The putting up sexualised pics and a wishlist and attracting thousands of mostly male followers and then trying to act the blushing ingenue when it turns out those men aren't buying you presents to thank you for the posts about your cat or your new desk or what you're having for dinner. Also playing the feminism card, denouncing the sleazy behaviour of men while quietly profiting from it. I just find the whole thing a bit creepy and furtive and grubby, frankly. At least with OnlyFans both content creators and consumers know the deal and don't try to pretend otherwise.

I also once had a friend who signed up to SuicideGirls and got a bit besotted with one of the models on there. He got angry when I called it a porn site. He didn't seem himself as a consumer of porn, or the girls as porn models, because the site is marketed as "A celebration of alternative beauty" and he really bought into that, telling me the girls are paid well and the site empowers women. Pfffft, it's a porn site using an atom-thick veneer of feminism to try and pretend otherwise. And of course, the owner eventually got outed as a misogynist and for exploitative work practices.

SuicideGirls isn't just photos, it has forums and you can message the models if you so wish, and I think that's what my friend had been doing. And I do find some of this stuff a little worrying, the way some people who use that and things like Twitter, OnlyFans, Twitch etc, not just to look at sexy pictures of nice-looking people, but to form a bit of an emotional connection with them too. Does that cross a line into something a bit more harmful? I'm not sure. The set-up seems ripe for exploitation too.

Not sure where I'm going with this, just a few things that have been on my mind.

Retinend

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2021, 11:38:26 AM »
Great post, Blue Jam. I'm sorry for your friends that they were so desperate for human connection that they took it in such a degraded form. It seems to happen a lot that people get trapped in "progress traps", and they pursue something as if it were personal development ("Interaction with an actual woman! This is my destiny!") when actually it's counterproductive in the long run (e.g. leading to a depression upon realizing what happened, and distrust/hatred of women as a result).

It's a lot to think about, and it's another reason I'm not on the laissez faire side of the argument right now. Maybe I need to hear some stories about how brilliant exchanging sex for money is.

Gurke and Hare

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2021, 11:53:08 AM »
Mmm. "Sex work is work" should at least imply "and therefore we should be working to eradicate it as fully as possible" (but not by doing things that it make more dangerous, more coercive or more unpleasant for labourers).

That does seem largely to be the case, doesn't it? Certainly, when I see it it's generally in response to the likes of Julie Bindel declaring that sex workers should be doing something more life enriching and noble to earn money like, say, cleaning Julie Bindel's house for her.

Retinend

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2021, 12:24:29 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS5QOkrXsUc
“EVERYBODY CRIES THEIR FIRST TIME” | Student Sex Workers
7,806,368 views•Nov 16, 2015

off topic, maybe, but relevant to the topic of sex work in general

RDRR

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2021, 12:28:05 PM »
Not sure it's so great for some of the people that make huge amounts of money, either. A friend's family member is a big OnlyFans person - when she first mentioned this to us we googled her name to see how many subscribers she had[1] but also encountered a bunch of stalky dedicated subreddits and dodgy websites apparently sharing her photos, personal information etc. She's clearly made a huge amount of money but also gotten involved with some pretty rotten people.

I've never been able to get my head around that level of desire for wealth, to be honest. Which in her specific case it does appear to be - but I also have no idea what proportion of people do this with aims of A) attaining incredible wealth, B) getting by, C) just pursuing their own kinks.

Someone on one of these threads previously mentioned finding the focus on subscribing to individual accounts to be one of the strange things about it, as opposed to aimless consumption of porn more generally. I think they contrasted someone in a relationship occasionally watching porn versus subscribing to one or two OnlyFans creators that they were particularly taken with, which also struck me as odd/a potentially important distinction.

It is also weird there are people benefitting from and actively seeking to recruit new 'content creators'. Ultimately my feelings are there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the concept but also feeling vaguely uneasy about the degree to which having an OnlyFans has been normalised. Part of the reason for that seems to be the ambiguity of 'having an OnlyFans' and what that necessarily entails.

 1. yeah yeah, I bet you did you dirty etc

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2021, 12:31:59 PM »
I remember the West Wing having an episode in which a male character asked why sex work should be treated any differently to any other work in terms of protections/legislation and the feminist activist responded that no little girl ever grew up wanting to be a sex worker. But then how many grew up wanting to clean Julie Bindell's house, work in a shop, or work in an office for that matter?

One way of threading the Only Fans Bad, Sex Work Fine needle is to argue that sex work is fine but pimping has never been viewed as okay and Onky Fans is a pimping platform. If they're taking a cut then they're working as pimps

Also, how is Only Fans legal in the US when they forced Craigslist to close their personals section over trafficking nonsense?

Edit: There needs to ve a site called Onky Fans.

Blue Jam

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2021, 12:44:55 PM »
Great post, Blue Jam. I'm sorry for your friends that they were so desperate for human connection that they took it in such a degraded form. It seems to happen a lot that people get trapped in "progress traps", and they pursue something as if it were personal development ("Interaction with an actual woman! This is my destiny!")

Cheers! This all reminds me of those stories you'd hear about some recently-widowed old dear who had met a nice young man or woman online, someone very good-looking and flirtacious who made them feel 18 again, someone they had developed a real connection with and planned to meet up with. Then this person would inevitably need money for a passport and a plane ticket from Turkey or Russia or Brazil or Thailand, and then they'd run into visa issues and would need a bit more cash to sort things out, and the moment the old dear wired the money over the love of their life would go quiet. That seems almost quaint now, and I do wonder if these newer platforms like Twitch and OnlyFans could make it easier to scam people, or if you have scammers on there pulling lots of small scams rather than asking for a big lump sum from a single lonely heart.

Quote
when actually it's counterproductive in the long run (e.g. leading to a depression upon realizing what happened, and distrust/hatred of women as a result).

That's a very good point! I guess the victims of "romance scammers" genuinely do believe there's a real connection there, but with people who actively seek out these connections I think you may be right. If you go looking for love in all the wrong places (Twitter, Facebook, Twitch) there's a good chance you'll be hurt and damaged by the experience.

A few months back I had someone send me a message on Twitter, saying I had a nice profile pic and he was also in the Edinburgh area and would I like to meet up? I think my profile pic is the only pic of myself I have ever posted, and it's just a photo of me in a pub wearing a shirt, nothing sexualised about it at all. The guy also looked at least 60 (I'm 39). Did he really think I was going to do anything but shudder before hitting "Block user"? I can't imagine why anyone would put themselves through that.

On that forum I mentioned earlier I also got chatting to someone over PM about music, films, recipes etc. He seemed nice at first but when he mentioned his recent divorce (describing his ex in some quite misogynistic terms) it became clear that he was doing the whole Nice Guy act and wanted to be more than friends, and he suggested meeting up, which wasn't something I wanted at all. I blocked him and he went on a bit of a smear campaign, posting rants about how I'd "led him on" and "needed to have my back doors smashed in". I quit the forum after that, but lurking afterwards I noticed him ranting about several other female posters on there, and eventually I heard from someone that he'd been trying to use the place as a dating site, and getting very angry when women kept getting freaked out and rejecting him. That approach was doomed to fail from the start, but he seemed to have this sense that he was just a poor lonely man repeatedly being wronged by all these bitches, not that he was the initiator and the aggressor, using a forum for something it wasn't designed for, and approaching women who weren't there to find a man and didn't want that kind of attention. How can you stop people engaging in that self-destructive behaviour though?

I met Mr Jam through here though and it was me who suggested we go for a drink after a CaB meet so maybe I'm a massive hypocrite ;)

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2021, 12:57:10 PM »
I remember the West Wing having an episode in which a male character asked why sex work should be treated any differently to any other work in terms of protections/legislation and the feminist activist responded that no little girl ever grew up wanting to be a sex worker. But then how many grew up wanting to clean Julie Bindell's house, work in a shop, or work in an office for that matter?

One way of threading the Only Fans Bad, Sex Work Fine needle is to argue that sex work is fine but pimping has never been viewed as okay and Onky Fans is a pimping platform. If they're taking a cut then they're working as pimps

Also, how is Only Fans legal in the US when they forced Craigslist to close their personals section over trafficking nonsense?

Edit: There needs to ve a site called Onky Fans.

I think calling it a pimping platform is a bit extreme given both the dangers of actual pimps and the dangers actual pimps are supposed to protect sex workers from versus an online marketplace. It is to pimping what Bandcamp is to shitty overbearing record executives.

Retinend

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2021, 01:01:55 PM »
This all reminds me of those stories you'd hear about some recently-widowed old dear who had met a nice young man or woman online, someone very good-looking and flirtacious who made them feel 18 again

Yes, those romance scams... They are obviously extreme deceptions and not indicative of sex work at all, but one element of seduction is the element of deception. You can't remove seduction from sex work. Someone correct me if I am being illogical.

This He seemed nice at first but when he mentioned his recent divorce (describing his ex in some quite misogynistic terms) it became clear that he was doing the whole Nice Guy act and wanted to be more than friends, and he suggested meeting up, which wasn't something I wanted at all. I blocked him and he went on a bit of a smear campaign, posting rants about how I'd "led him on" and "needed to have my back doors smashed in"

Horrible!

Not that your story had anything to do with sex work, but this reminds me of another element of sex work I can't work out: how do you ensure that your profession is free from unbearable risks? I'm thinking of the relatively high risk that someone will obsess about you and ultimately wish to harm you when you inevitably reject them.

Retinend

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2021, 01:10:59 PM »
a site called Onky Fans.

WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT ONKY FANS???

edit: I meant to PM, not post this, how do I delete? kthxbai
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 01:21:07 PM by Retinend »

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2021, 01:15:49 PM »
Remember reading a thing on I think Vice some time back about cam sites and how the experience for creators who are from well-off countries like the US and UK and have a reasonable level of security and independence is completely different to those from places like the Philippines or Columbia who have far fewer life choices and are more likely to get pushed into things they don't want to do.

There's also the whole level of intermediary agents and production companies, so people who may look like they are fully in control have in fact have signed contracts that require a level of commitment and hours with money docked or even fines for not meeting those and a big percentage of what's earned going to those companies. Same old involvement from organised crime groups in them too.

There was a report recently about bank suspicious activity reports connected to the MyFreeCams / Only Fans company and the sums involved are massive. One bunch of transfers was for $768 million.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2021, 01:21:27 PM »
Cheers! This all reminds me of those stories you'd hear about some recently-widowed old dear who had met a nice young man or woman online, someone very good-looking and flirtacious who made them feel 18 again, someone they had developed a real connection with and planned to meet up with. Then this person would inevitably need money for a passport and a plane ticket from Turkey or Russia or Brazil or Thailand, and then they'd run into visa issues and would need a bit more cash to sort things out, and the moment the old dear wired the money over the love of their life would go quiet. That seems almost quaint now, and I do wonder if these newer platforms like Twitch and OnlyFans could make it easier to scam people, or if you have scammers on there pulling lots of small scams rather than asking for a big lump sum from a single lonely heart.


I think it's probably more analogous to those stories you used to hear about slightly sad lonely men getting hooked on premium rate phone lines. Obviously it's not really presented as something that's going to give you an emotional connection but the people on the lines will pull on that thread to ensure people come back.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2021, 02:12:47 PM »
Damn, Trenter, go back to talking about OnlyFans, you were making sense. I was sitting here agreeing with you for a change.

Sure let's go down to basics first but I warn you putting this altogether leads us back to what I was saying in the Suzanne Moore thread which you didn't like.

Let's start with the concept of insidiousness; insidiousness is essential to early stage adoption of "things" (behaviours) once the body (including the brain) has carried out an action or behaviour our emotional systems are predicated on whether this behaviour was useful or not via our crude emotional reward centre (I won't go into the neuroanatomy Blue Jam would know more here); on a base level these crude internal emotional responses are happiness and disgust.  If you can surround behaviours with an internal sense of happiness/reward then the chances dramatically increase in that behaviour being consciously (or subconsciously as it later may transpire) replicated again (or attempted again).  Within these systems exists entropy; this is due to the brains capacity to familiarise and learn behaviours saving resources for future actions; so this is why the first time you experience something the impact is greater; with later similar experiences being less impactful due to this mechanism (all things being the same; experience can adapt and the capacity for experience can change i.e. take some LSD and watching Star Wars will likely have a new highly impactful experience compared to the first time you watched it straight; same material; difference state).   Everyone knows all of this intuitively, it is the foundation of addiction and habituation.

Porn like other forms of film  were features with the invention of video it became mass produced; however the foundation style; a film; that you watch with a clear barrier between what is occurring on the screen and what is real life; these are actors paid to perform a script; the internet age then brings even more mass production leading us to this day in which individuals can pay a subscription to websites like OnlyFans acting as a distributor/advertiser and interactive shop face to produce their "porn".  With mass production from independent sellers you have now created marketplace and in a crowded market place you need to chisel out a niche and create market share; this leads progressively to more more aggressive marketing tactics (these are your push notifications, your curation of adverts and misuse of your personal data , your WATCH THIS PERSON GET DESTROYED, 10 THINGS THAT WILL GET YOU LAID, your lefty YouTubers telling you the world is about to explode into all the fascisms etc..) and in the case of OnlyFans it is about getting people hooked and keeping them hooked.

This is all still based on these crude emotional responses of reward and anticipation of reward (remember when I said "state" well anticipation changes our state - think about it fruit machines do not need flashing lights and rotating wheels to be gambling units; they just need to pay out or not it's just dice rolling (stacked dice rolling); but then you wouldn't have the "experience" and that experience is what keeps you coming back; it's why people don't walk away even when they won loads of money; that was never what it was about; or rather it might have been what it was about but their emotional circuitry has been hacked).  This is what Blue Jam is explaining in a different way; the insidiousness of people not informing or being clear to their audience what "grift" is being enacted; being honest about ones business; informing you that these fags will give you cancer and that gambling is addictive is part of your "duty of care" to protect and inform your customers audiences.  insidiousness allows people to get into situations and build habitual behaviours before they know what they are getting into (this actually works massively with lots of aspect of mental health; the opposite counter force to insidiousness is "insight" and people that have insight into how they progress in and out of ill states have the best chances of recovery).  Calling them out on it and them retreating to some well heeled provocative stance of well you must be a sexist etc.. is such a painfully obvious tactic that it shouldn't need pointing out (it's literally what tories do all the time also; lets not talk about the bad thing I might have done let's talk about your character for bringing it up - this is usually in the form of woke/radical lefties etc....).

All this leads to performers engaging in behaviours aimed to maintain customers and "payment plans" to keep them spinning/playing or watching.

That is a simple explanation but it is base-level psychological interaction that is going on here.  There is no difference whether these are men or women doing this however this become problematic when you reduce men and women down into patriarchal objects it cannot explain the variety of women or men as either performers or customers.  There is a big difference between a female performer that takes care to ensure people are not becoming unhealthily reliant on them or spending money they do not have and another female performer that actively seeks this to improve their bank account; you cannot tell the difference by looking at their genitals you need to look at their behaviours.  I'm repeating myself but I'm going to keep doing this until it sticks reductionism is not something the left should have anything to do with it is a rightwing and oppressive method of analysis it has been corrupted into the left through Blairism, neoliberalism and outlets like the Guardian; it is to occupy the space of the actual material gains that socialism and especially socialist feminism previously created and can still go on to create.

Btw here is an exceptional video from Jacobin (again they are the key leftwing channel to listen too right now imo; they are ahead of us here but we will follow suit eventually) on a related topic; I was listening to it in the kitchen the other day and it nearly brought tears to my eyes as the amount of times I've said this and just been labelled a misogynist or whatever; hearing these brilliant three women discuss it really moved me.  Helping women isn't about pointing out how shit all men are (#notallmen) for clicks, op eds or grandstanding on forums; it is largely about creating economic independence and the dissolution of patriarchal structures; many of which are upheld by the majority of women still; you cannot do this by reductionist neoliberal 3rd wave feminism as it does not wish or want to do this (and of course they are going to other and label anyone that points that out).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7T1O_TYXLI

« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 02:25:56 PM by TrenterPercenter »

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2021, 03:27:58 PM »
All this leads to performers engaging in behaviours aimed to maintain customers and "payment plans" to keep them spinning/playing or watching.

On top of that, services also gamify things for the performers to keep them hooked in. I've mentioned before about having a friend whose daughter is a moderately successful livestreamer on one of the Asian music-oriented services and how it's based around unlocking bonuses for doing a certain number of hours every single day, hitting various targets for viewers and gifts or getting votes in competitions etc. In addition, your agent and the service's talent management division will pester you if your earnings start to drop.

It's horrendous pressure for people who are often just teenagers and likely haven't developed the skills or resilience they need.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2021, 03:31:32 PM »
Gamification innit, the same little bumps that exist on fruit machines and the like to keep you playing.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2021, 03:42:28 PM »
On top of that, services also gamify things for the performers to keep them hooked in. I've mentioned before about having a friend whose daughter is a moderately successful livestreamer on one of the Asian music-oriented services and how it's based around unlocking bonuses for doing a certain number of hours every single day, hitting various targets for viewers and gifts or getting votes in competitions etc. In addition, your agent and the service's talent management division will pester you if your earnings start to drop.

It's horrendous pressure for people who are often just teenagers and likely haven't developed the skills or resilience they need.

Yep a really key point as well.  In these systems there nearly always operates a hierarchy of oppression that mirrors the extraction of surplus labour value (Marx would have a field day with OnlyFans).  There is a certain amount of buy from workers; this can range from highly exploitative (usually down payments that then reverse bind an "employee" into earning it back or losing it) or they can just be appealing[1]; lots of women do camming not because some evil pimp is telling her to but because it is relatively (if you are good at these things) easy and convenient way to make money; there are also psychological and material benefits from having a "fan base".  Why not; I don't think you can really change these things; if you enacted UI then you would still have lots of women doing sex work for a variety of reasons...however you would not have women doing sex work because they couldn't pay the rent.  This is why it is about protecting people; checks; balances; support and compassion; this can also be extended somewhat to the customers that are trapped in unhealthy behaviours also (which will not be all be a long shot lots of people gamble unproblematically and can walk away).

 1. can still be exploitative but its get complicated and outside society and personal responsibility should be considered

Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2021, 04:26:43 PM »
You’re also less likely to be raped or beaten up or killed behind a webcam.

Zetetic

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2021, 05:07:49 PM »
If we think that OnlyFans and the like has reduced labour supply into face-to-face/contact prostitution, has it:
1) Reduced demand for the same?
2) Induced demand for migrant labour and trafficking?

(The second of these is also likely a problem for poorly implemented UBI, of course.)

H-O-W-L

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Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2021, 05:42:16 PM »
I think the problem is that the inclusion of sex in the topic means that people don't think rationally about it and think that, in order to avoid seeming like a puritanical witch burner, you HAVE to be in favor of it. No, mate, it's still exploitatively designed capitalist shitwork that ultimately ends up forcing people to do shit they don't want to do in order to afford merely the ability to continue living and very rarely little else.

Obviously the sexual harm induced by exploitative sex work is unique, and a problem unto itself, but I also think that people underestimate the level of trauma traditional minwage shitwork can induce, too -- it's just a different kind of trauma. Rather than stomping out any one kind of work for moralistic reasons, as many other posters here have said, the general nature of all work, sexuality or not, needs to be improved.

IMO, COVID has proven that so many jobs could be refined into being less shit with absolutely no actual effort on the part of the money-makers. They are just total cunts who don't want to change it because it, in theorem, to the investment blowhards who would buy shares in Zeus's fucking beard if they were made public, could risk profit margins. Some weecunt banker in Ye Citye could see a graph trend downward instead of upward and shit his fucking pants so hard he volumetrically cascades toward the azimuth beyond the speed of light, crumbling the entire world beneath him with his rectocolonic shitburst shockwave, so we daren't risk it.

chveik

  • OPEN THE PUBS BOYS
Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2021, 05:59:26 PM »
capitalism at odds with workers' rights shocker!!


If we think that OnlyFans and the like has reduced labour supply into face-to-face/contact prostitution, has it:
1) Reduced demand for the same?
2) Induced demand for migrant labour and trafficking?

(The second of these is also likely a problem for poorly implemented UBI, of course.)

i doubt it, it doesn't satisfy the same needs.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: OnlyFans and horses work.
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2021, 06:15:39 PM »
I think the problem is that the inclusion of sex in the topic means that people don't think rationally about it and think that, in order to avoid seeming like a puritanical witch burner, you HAVE to be in favor of it. No, mate, it's still exploitatively designed capitalist shitwork that ultimately ends up forcing people to do shit they don't want to do in order to afford merely the ability to continue living and very rarely little else.

Obviously the sexual harm induced by exploitative sex work is unique, and a problem unto itself, but I also think that people underestimate the level of trauma traditional minwage shitwork can induce, too -- it's just a different kind of trauma. Rather than stomping out any one kind of work for moralistic reasons, as many other posters here have said, the general nature of all work, sexuality or not, needs to be improved.

IMO, COVID has proven that so many jobs could be refined into being less shit with absolutely no actual effort on the part of the money-makers. They are just total cunts who don't want to change it because it, in theorem, to the investment blowhards who would buy shares in Zeus's fucking beard if they were made public, could risk profit margins. Some weecunt banker in Ye Citye could see a graph trend downward instead of upward and shit his fucking pants so hard he volumetrically cascades toward the azimuth beyond the speed of light, crumbling the entire world beneath him with his rectocolonic shitburst shockwave, so we daren't risk it.

Yeah I started a post in response to Kankruette's reply to me talking about 'gainers' on Onlyfans about how I thought that the crowdfunding aspect of objectively dangerous behaviour (I included an analogy to other dangerous behaviours like 'smoking fetishes' here) was bad but then on writing it I realised it was just hamfistedly hovering towards a 'crowdfunding makes people do things they wouldn't always do and this is bad' style point and the only difference was the the toll may have been physical danger rather than a mental toll and sort of just binned it.

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