Before We Was We: Madness by Madness

[mrClaypole]

he fucked off to sell out Cockney Park and do TV appearances and Jools Holland for the rest of time and like a lot of bands I guess, when the one person rooting for you at the label fucks off thats your arse. Wasn't his/her fault, but it's funny to hear about it happening in real time in front of you. it's whenever that big reunion show was? fake edit - madstock

So that wouldve been Cathal when working for GO discs as A+R.
Your mates band weren't Laxtons superb were they?

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Sounds like it could have been The Farm ( Suggs used to manage them).

[Brundle-Fly]

I think Suggs was a sort of ambassador for The Farm, more than a hands-on manager (he also produced their hit singles and album, I'm Spartacus ). The Farm were already established by the time Madstock was conceived.

The manager would've definitely been Cathal. Goldentony's friend's band could have been The Stairs, another Scouse turn who he looked after. Smyth much later went on to manage the far more successful UK 'urban' artist, Just Jack. 

Tony's story reminds me of something Dustin Hoffman once confessed in an interview. When he was told he'd landed the lead in The Graduate (1967), the first thought that crossed his mind as the agent congratulated him was, "There goes my marriage."

[Jockice]

I think Suggs was a sort of ambassador for The Farm, more than a hands-on manager (he also produced their hit singles and album, I'm Spartacus ). The Farm were already established by the time Madstock was conceived.

That's Blammo! you're thinking of again. The Farm's album was just called Spartacus.

[Brundle-Fly]

I now have a vision of various members of Blammo!, Triumvirat and The Farm standing on a hillside outside Rome, individually shouting, "No, my record is Spartacus!"

[Norton Canes]

Watched the first episode the other day, thought all of them were eloquent and engaging. Don't know much about the history of the band so it was interesting to discover they came from a range of class backgrounds.

I always liked Madness as a singles band but never got into their albums. The Beatles/Stones divide in our school in the early 80's was between Madness and Adam (and the) Ant(s) and though my loyalties were ostensibly on the insectoid side of the fence I had sympathies with the opposition.

[Brundle-Fly]

With me if it's the opposite, I think of Adam & The Ants as a singles band rather than an album band. I liked them both at school. I also liked Japan, Bananarama and Motörhead back then. Covering all bases.

[DrGreggles]

I always liked Madness as a singles band but never got into their albums.

The first album aside (which is a belter), they've pretty much admitted that their albums in the 80s were singles + filler, as Stiff were very focussed on them churning out hits and left them little time to work on the albums.
The Liberty of Norton Folgate is their best album BY A MILE.

[Brundle-Fly]

It's hard for me to be impartial on this because I've loved and lived with the 80s albums for such a long time that I can't hear a lot of  filler on them. There are some weaklings though: Solid Gone, New Delhi, Prospects, The Coldest Day

[Johnboy]

For me Keep Moving is their great LP

Only one weak track (waltz into mischief)

[Brundle-Fly]

For me Keep Moving is their great LP

Only one weak track (waltz into mischief)

Yeah, that track was always a struggle. They mastered that particular style of fairground folk music on later albums.

[Johnboy]

In fairness to it, it is unique and is trying something different

it's not plain bad, like, say Solid Gone

[mrClaypole]

The first album aside (which is a belter), they've pretty much admitted that their albums in the 80s were singles + filler, as Stiff were very focussed on them churning out hits and left them little time to work on the albums.
The Liberty of Norton Folgate is their best album BY A MILE.

I think they are more well known for their singles but I think its unfair to say that their albums deliberately contained filler material. Personally I love all of their albums bar 7. For some reason I just don't like the sound of it, I like a couple of tracks on it and maybe I need to try and listen again

As for their later albums The liberty of norton folgate I think is a masterpiece, qui qui si si is a good pop album. I was incredibly disappointed with Cant touch us now. In my opinion it sounds like Madness losing faith in themselves by bringing in too many outside musicians. Plus some of the songs had been knocking around for years and not all of them intended for Madness. Its also badly produced with a kind of tacky piano sound and the drums sounding like cardboard boxes.
Suggs voice is sounding ropier than ever (I know he's getting on) particularly on the spoken word tracks. It's just not an album I go back too

Plus it's also been commented on that the title track is a dig at Chas.

[DrGreggles]

I think they are more well known for their singles but I think its unfair to say that their albums deliberately contained filler material. Personally I love all of their albums bar 7. For some reason I just don't like the sound of it, I like a couple of tracks on it and maybe I need to try and listen again

'Filler' might be a bit harsh, but it's true that the non-single album tracks were considered an afterthought by Stiff, which meant that it was a case of recording the best songs they had at the time over a pretty short period.
So it wasn't a knock at the songs themselves, but the circumstances they were recorded under.

Never heard Can't Stop Us Now, but they played a couple of brass-heavy tracks from it last time I saw them live. Nothing particularly memorable.

[mrClaypole]

'Filler' might be a bit harsh, but it's true that the non-single album tracks were considered an afterthought by Stiff, which meant that it was a case of recording the best songs they had at the time over a pretty short period.
So it wasn't a knock at the songs themselves, but the circumstances they were recorded under.

Never heard Can't Stop Us Now, but they played a couple of brass-heavy tracks from it last time I saw them live. Nothing particularly memorable.

You really aren't missing anything by not hearing it.

[Brundle-Fly]

Now you see I much prefer Can't Touch Us Now to Oui, Oui... 'Orses for courses.

I've never heard that CTUN was a dig at Chas, it was Lee's tribute to his missus, Debbie he's been with for over forty years. And maybe a tip of a hat to Madness's staying power too.

[mrClaypole]

Now you see I much prefer Can't Touch Us Now to Oui, Oui... 'Orses for courses.

I've never heard that CTUN was a dig at Chas, it was Lee's tribute to his missus, Debbie he's been with for over forty years. And maybe a tip of a hat to Madnes

s's staying power too.

The song is about Lee and Debbies relationship but the song was chosen for its title as a 2 finger salute to Chas. Ha ha your gone, you can't touch us now.

[Brundle-Fly]

I take the album title as more positive. Vindication, they have a rich legacy and nothing to prove anymore. They were never a band to make veiled personal jabs like this. Well at least none that I'm aware of.

[mrClaypole]

I take the album title as more positive. Vindication, they have a rich legacy and nothing to prove anymore. They were never a band to make veiled personal jabs like this. Well at least none that I'm aware of.

I got this from someone on the inside. Personally I don't like to believe it but at the time emotions were running high within the band

It definitely is a statement of intent as they were no longer having to deal with "the petty time consuming bullshit " that Chrissyboy cited as the reason why he quit around the Dangermen period.  A time apparently where Chas was having grandiose ideas that was pissing off the band and management.

[Brundle-Fly]

Another couple of reasons Chrissy Boy left was that he felt The Dangermen covers project was a step backward (not beyond) for the band and some of the licensing of their material for adverts was tarnishing their legacy. This abomination apparently tipped him over the edge.

https://vimeo.com/30897617

[mrClaypole]

Another couple of reasons Chrissy Boy left was that he felt The Dangermen covers project was a step backward (not beyond) for the band and some of the licensing of their material for adverts was tarnishing their legacy. This abomination apparently tipped him over the edge.

https://vimeo.com/30897617

Yes I believe he was pretty pissed off in general.  I was friends with Chrissyboy on Myspace back in the day and I remember sending him a PM saying I would miss his guitar playing onstage.  He thanked me.
I also remember he sent me a PM saying he was rejoining the band and wanted to let me know as I had been kind enough to send him a message. 
That was really nice of him.

The band were quite rudderless around the Dangermen period.  At the time it was thought that they might call it a day.  But they managed to get themselves together and write an amazing album.

[Brundle-Fly]

By pure chance, back in 2005(6)?, I happened to be walking past the Dublin Castle in Camden Town and saw The Dangermen were playing a secret gig. Fuck knows how I blagged a ticket but was so glad I finally got to see the boys play that tiny venue as I was a smidge too young to have caught them in the late 70s when they had the residency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQ3MiW6Vrw

[mrClaypole]

By pure chance, back in 2005(6)?, I happened to be walking past the Dublin Castle in Camden Town and saw The Dangermen were playing a secret gig. Fuck knows how I blagged a ticket but was so glad I finally got to see the boys play that tiny venue as I was a smidge too young to have caught them in the late 70s when they had the residency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQ3MiW6Vrw

I desperately tried to get tickets for that but no joy. I did have some bootleg recordings of the gigs before my computer decided to die.
I did get to see them at the Camden crawl on Inverness street. I was sat in the Italian restaurant sipping 8 quid a pint lager really close to the double decker bus they were performing on.

[Brundle-Fly]

Are you going to watch 'The Get Up'  live stream show next Friday? Should be interesting.

[mrClaypole]

Are you going to watch 'The Get Up'  live stream show next Friday? Should be interesting.

Sadly I'm working.  It does look interesting. 
Its getting to the point where theres so much Madness material out there that ive totally lost track.  Some stuff from the 40th anniversary still remains unreleased like the orchestral concert.
We need a good box set out with all this stuff on

[Brundle-Fly]

The Kenwood House concert certainly needs a decent official album release. That was nearly two years ago. I had a good time but it was very wet and having to walk a mile to get a £6 a pop can of weak lager or take a leak behind a tree was a bit taxing.

[MiddleRabbit]

Round the time they split up in the 80s, I remember them being interviewed en masse and Chrissy Boy saying that one of the reasons they were going their separate ways was because they'd matured and become more interested in politics, "some of us..." whilst looking pointedly at Woody and/or Bedders.  Woody looked a bit prissy at that and Bedders just looked his usual gormless but amiable self.

Apropos of nothing in particular...

[Brundle-Fly]

Chrissy Boy is a wind-up merchant.

[MiddleRabbit]

Well, yeah.  But then they did immediately reform as "The" Madness but without Woody and Bedders.  I still have Bedders' band The Butterfield 8's Watermelon Man on 12".  I don't know why.  Woody did well for a bit in Voice Of The Beehive while "The" Madness floundered, which he seemed quite pleased about in around 1988.

[mrClaypole]

Round the time they split up in the 80s, I remember them being interviewed en masse and Chrissy Boy saying that one of the reasons they were going their separate ways was because they'd matured and become more interested in politics, "some of us..." whilst looking pointedly at Woody and/or Bedders.  Woody looked a bit prissy at that and Bedders just looked his usual gormless but amiable self.

Apropos of nothing in particular...

Theres a great deal of dynamics within the band.  I guess that the core of the friendship is "The Madness" line minus Mike.  Woody and Bedders are almost outsiders.
It's funny how things change.  In my real life I have lost a friend I had known for nearly 40 years.  He just changed over a period of time and stopped replying to my text messages. Such a deep friendship to suddenly get junked. Just shows how people change over time.
I can't imagine what the pressures can be when you are living in each other's pockets for a period of time.  Even some of my dearest friends I sometimes think 4 hours in a pub is too much.
Btw Bedders is the first member of the band I met having bunked off school to see the band in 1992. He's a really funny man. Yet seems very shy. I can imagine him and Woody feeling alittle overwhelmed by some of the bigger characters in the band