Author Topic: Jim Morrison and The Doors  (Read 1845 times)

Janie Jones

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Jim Morrison and The Doors
« on: May 03, 2021, 04:23:59 PM »
I don’t think we’ve had a dedicated thread on these old boys before.

I’m slightly obsessed with Jimbo and the Doors, they’d definitely be my specialist subject on Mastermind. I was a wee child when they were around and I think Jim’s name and rich dark voice somehow got muddled up with Jim Reeves in my titchy head so I thought they were shite until I realised how much they influenced the bands I was into as a teenager some 7 years after Jim joined That Stupid Club. I know my obsession was well established when Apocalypse Now used The End in its soundtrack.

Jim was vile, a racist, misogynistic, selfish cunt. I’ve never adored the output of an artist who isn’t/wasn’t a despicable human so that’s no big deal for me. I will never get tired of thinking and talking about Morrison and the Doors so please let me know your views. What do you think of his poetry? There’s the Oliver Stone film, care to comment on that? Anyone seen Feast of Friends? Any love for the Soft Parade out there? Does anyone still believe the Danny Sugarman-promoted conspiracy theories around Jim’s death? Remember when we were in Africa?

Johnboy

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 04:52:16 PM »
Love them.

I have the remixes of Morrison Hotel and L.A. Woman, they sound great.

haven't checked out his poetry, I'd say it's no worse than any Dylan's Tarantula (which I like).

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 07:18:16 PM »
I like the first album, and I've read Wonderland Avenue. That's about it really.

the science eel

  • married to Su Pollard for 8 years
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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 07:23:51 PM »
Hell of a band. Immediately recognisable sound - like, half of a second.

The first two LPs are fabulous, the rest just very good, but 'Touch Me' (altho' not typical) is my absolute fave. The footage of them on US TV with Krieger and his black eye and the horn section is such a joy.

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 08:09:56 PM »
I really enjoy Waiting For The Sun (probably my favourite Doors LP if I'm honest) and The Soft Parade, but they always get a bad rap. The latter is clearly their worst (with Jim) but it's a great laugh regardless. "Remember when we were in Africa?" The first two songs are bangers.

Like most people, I haven't heard the last couple of Jim-less albums, but I was mildly interested in hearing them to see if they were as bad as received wisdom would suggest, until some clips of a 5 piece Doors from 1973 or so showed up in my YouTube recommendations recently. Mildly interesting is the highest praise I could give, bless 'em.

As for the movie:

It's complete shit. There is nothing about it that isn't laughable. I was so hyped to see it when it came out. I was 13 and it sounded like the greatest film ever. I had a knockoff t-shirt of the poster from Penney's and a tape of the soundtrack album which got me into The Doors and The Velvet Underground. I waited what seemed like an age for it to come out on video and when I finally saw it, the movie was such a load of shit it may have been the first I ever enjoyed for the wrong reasons. If Walk Hard didn't exist, it would be my favourite music biopic as it's the one that perfectly demonstrates why music biopics are absolute toot.

Ham Bap

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2021, 08:20:43 PM »
I was massively into them for about 10-15 years from the age of 15.
Sorta tuned out for a bit as life moves on.

Then saw a tweet in February past about this book coming out in June as its the 50th anniversary of Jims death coming up: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0063028972/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Been getting obsessed with them again ever since. Been re-reading books, joining Facebook/Reddit groups and watching a load of Youtube videos that werent around years ago. The Isle of Wight 1970 concert for example was only released 3 years ago.
Im trying not to have them all the time to not annoy my wife..

This is probably my favourite book, from Frank Lisciandro, one of Jims friends who was at UCLA with him. Its interviews from people who knew and worked with him. Gives you a more real picture than the sensationalized books and film:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0991252527/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've seen the Oliver Stone film a fair few times, have owned it on VHS, DVD, Bluray, now 4k. Its a bit shite and has probably done more damage to the legacy of the band and Jim Morrison more than anything else. It has good concert scenes and Val Kilmer is great in it though.

The 'Jim is still alive' stuff is all a load of shite by people such as Danny Sugerman for profit and self-promotion. I think Ray Manzarek also hinted at this and it was something for him to keep the legend alive.
IMO its also quite a bit damaging. Theres an interview with Jim's sister in the When You're Strange documentary (good documentary btw https://vimeo.com/288955462) extras when she says that she heard the rumours and it always gave her hope that her brother was still alive.

Personally i think he drank himself to death probably helped along by dabbling into Pamelas heroin. Sad way to go out, I think the fella was a genius who had barely got started. Unfortunately rehab and help wasnt around much in those days. 

LA Woman is probably my favourite album. Patiently waiting on the announcement of a 50th Anniversary album with more studio out-takes.
The Behind Closed Doors - The Rarities (2013) had new live studio versions of LA Woman and Riders on the Storm. More of those please.

Ham Bap

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 08:47:02 PM »
This is another good documentary, The Making of LA Woman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm53c_fSCJ4

the science eel

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 11:11:42 PM »

Personally i think he drank himself to death probably helped along by dabbling into Pamelas heroin.

I agree, but still find it a bit shocking. I mean, drinking will slowly kill you - but to take you out at 27? there are shots of him in Paris just weeks before he died and he looks fine.

bgmnts

  • Depressed to the point of poisonous toxicity.
Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 11:14:05 PM »
They're fine.

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2021, 01:00:53 AM »
I’ve started getting into them. People Are Strange got played a lot in the sixth form common room. I know obvious choice is obvious but I love Light My Fire, mainly for the immense organ solo.

Morrison’s poetry is questionable though.

famethrowa

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2021, 01:22:32 AM »
Love the Doors, I'm not too offended by Jimbo, great admiration for a band who can go from Touch Me and Roadhouse Blues to Horse Latitudes and Spanish Caravan. Some good experimental stuff in there and great pop tunes. But imagine being in a band for 5 years in your early 20's, then having to talk about only that for the rest of your life!

Bingo Fury

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 02:02:58 AM »
When I was in my teens back in the early '80s, The Doors' first album was one of those records you had to have. It was one of the first records I bought, I remember it being stuck on at drunken parties when friends' parents were away and I still think it's a classic. LA Woman may even be better. But there seems to have been a big reassessment (the memo for which I missed) somewhere along the line, and most of the mentions I've seen of The Doors online over the last few years have been pretty scathing and dismissive. Is that the general view now?

(I cut The Doors a lot of slack because I can't believe the man who wrote "Lament for my Cock" really took himself that seriously.)

the science eel

  • married to Su Pollard for 8 years
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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 07:00:05 AM »
Love the Doors, I'm not too offended by Jimbo, great admiration for a band who can go from Touch Me and Roadhouse Blues to Horse Latitudes and Spanish Caravan. Some good experimental stuff in there and great pop tunes. But imagine being in a band for 5 years in your early 20's, then having to talk about only that for the rest of your life!

imagine being PETE BEST!

The Mollusk

  • A number of deceased arachnids... and beans
Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 07:15:58 AM »
7 years after Jim joined That Stupid Club

S Club 7? Well I really like them so if he’s affiliated I’ll deffo give this The Doors band a go.

markburgle

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 07:50:00 AM »
I agree, but still find it a bit shocking. I mean, drinking will slowly kill you - but to take you out at 27? there are shots of him in Paris just weeks before he died and he looks fine.

OD'ed didn't he? Or possibly drowned in the tub. I don't think anyone's saying he died purely from attritional drinking.

I got well into the Doors in my teens. They unlocked a sense of romanticism I didn't know I had so I'll always love them for that even if I rarely feel like listening to them now.

Waiting For the Sun was my fave too. I can see how objectively the first two records had more energy but I just love nearly everything on Waiting..., even the corny, sleepy sounding stuff. Strange Days I find pretty patchy. Love the debut and LA Woman.

Soft Parade - kind of hokey, doesn't even feel like them, but the title track is a banger. Morrison Hotel is the worst, I feel as if all their uniqueness goes out the window on that one to be replaced by generic blues melodies. Except Queen of the Highway which is a beaut.


Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 11:49:34 AM »
You can't knock The Doors!

And I thought Jim's death was an open-and-shut case!!!

the science eel

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 12:59:19 PM »
Morrison Hotel is the worst, I feel as if all their uniqueness goes out the window on that one to be replaced by generic blues melodies. Except Queen of the Highway which is a beaut.

Agree completely. QotH is fabulous.

Ham Bap

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2021, 01:03:37 PM »
You can't knock The Doors!

And I thought Jim's death was an open-and-shut case!!!

There was never an autopsy because of French laws. His body was examined by 2 doctors after he died who put it down as heart attack.

Various people have given different accounts trying to sell a book no doubt:
https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/club-manager-tells-his-version-of-jim-morrisons-death/

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/aug/06/marianne-faithfull-boyfriend-killed-jim-morrison

This is an account by his friend Alain Ronay who lived in Paris at the time:
https://archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net/Pages/Articles/jims_last_days.html

From all the various sources ive read id guess it was booze and combination of dabbling into heroin though by the accounts of his bodyguards, hired to keep him out of trouble and alive in the US he wasnt into it. Though of course this was in Paris so no-one around to keep him out of trouble. 

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2021, 01:13:51 PM »
I have the first album (which I find OK, some really good songs but a lot I can't be having with) and a 20 track "Best Of", and that seems like enough for me. I think Morrison is the weak link in some ways - I can admire the musical chops the other three show, but there's some songs where it's going fine before Jim starts going on about something that I find more than just a bit silly.

But when it does click ('Roadhouse Blues', 'LA Woman', 'Touch Me' for instance) I can get why others find them essential.

chveik

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2021, 01:20:41 PM »
he sure was a silly goose!

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 01:22:14 PM »
Quite. Possibly telling that when the remaining three decided to have another pop at it, they drafted the also silly Ian Astbury to cover vocal duties.

PaulTMA

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 05:53:42 PM »
Of the post-death Doors, Ships With Sails is genuinely really nice, I'd say.  Ray is a bit out of his depth as a lead singer here, but if you can squint a bit, then it is rewarding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaL3A2BVmJM&ab_channel=BobBarry


Personally I think 'The Mosquito' is a genuinely fantastic piece of pop exotica, plus I do enjoy the fact that it was a minor hit single in some territories:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB9tb2pv5Z4&ab_channel=LaFamigliaDoorsiana

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2021, 07:51:26 PM »
When I in my late teens I got into an argument with a friend of a friend who was a complete cock, and also a huge fan of The Doors. During the argument he told me I wore my soul on my face and I burst out laughing because I didn't know what he meant. So I asked him, and he just kept repeating himself, mumbling "you wear your soul on your face", clearly not knowing what it meant himself, which made me laugh more. Cut to about 10 years later and I was watching The Doors film on tv and there was Val Kilmer telling someone that the wore their soul on their face. The silly billy had seen the film and just repeated that line to me because he thought it was cool, which gave me another huge laugh 10 years later, so thanks for that, Dave, you complete cock.

Then I worked with another chap who was also big into The Doors and would drone on and on about how Morrison was a poet, man. He didn't actually know that Morrison wrote poetry, he was simply talking about the songs.

So I've never really given them a proper go, because the fans I encounter usually put me off. That "People Are Strange" song is quite good, though.

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 08:29:29 PM »

The Doors play a similar role to me and music like Bill Hicks did for comedy. 

You get introduced to them and they blow your young and tiny mind; so different and exciting and they become all consuming.  But they are just the visible and accessible tip of the iceberg and you see all the stuff that is behind and around them, stuff that it is consistently better, and there's more of it and more exciting and so you naturally move on to that.  You come to release that a lot of what they did was terrible, but you'll remain attached to their best stuff.  Though you never need to hear it again, it's always a pleasure to revisit.

Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 08:50:28 PM »
My grandmother is in the same cemetary as Morrison. Her ashes are anyway. They lit her fire.

As for The Doors. Shrug. Some good ones on LA Woman.

rue the polywhirl

  • eight lives left
Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2021, 09:26:41 PM »
America’s Band.... after the Beach Boys. And America. And The Band (even though most of them are Canadian).

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2021, 09:29:10 PM »
When I in my late teens I got into an argument with a friend of a friend who was a complete cock, and also a huge fan of The Doors. During the argument he told me I wore my soul on my face and I burst out laughing because I didn't know what he meant. So I asked him, and he just kept repeating himself, mumbling "you wear your soul on your face", clearly not knowing what it meant himself, which made me laugh more. Cut to about 10 years later and I was watching The Doors film on tv and there was Val Kilmer telling someone that the wore their soul on their face. The silly billy had seen the film and just repeated that line to me because he thought it was cool, which gave me another huge laugh 10 years later, so thanks for that, Dave, you complete cock.

Then I worked with another chap who was also big into The Doors and would drone on and on about how Morrison was a poet, man. He didn't actually know that Morrison wrote poetry, he was simply talking about the songs.

So I've never really given them a proper go, because the fans I encounter usually put me off. That "People Are Strange" song is quite good, though.

Oliver Stone's ridiculous film did more harm to the Doors' legacy than anything Morrison actually ever said or did.

Stone took the whole thing at po-faced value, whereas in reality Morrison had a wry, ironic sense of humour about himself. He didn't really think he was some sort of Dionysian shaman, or the reincarnated soul of a dead Native American, that was all theatre, showbiz, and quite knowingly absurd self-mythology. He also took his art seriously and probably did half-believe some of those things when he was completely off his face (which was often, admittedly).

But to get all of that across in a film would require some nuance, which isn't something one readily associates with the work of Oliver Stone. As a result, he turned a hitherto respected band into a laughing stock. You could argue that Morrison did that too during his lifetime, and I wouldn't disagree, but the damage wrought by Stone's film was far greater.

I was an impressionable 16-year-old Doors fan when the film came out, but even then I could tell that it was a risible load of old bollocks. I'd already read quite a bit about Morrison by that time and had come to the conclusion that he was a talented bloke who appeared to be quite funny and charming underneath all that drunken buffoonery. Again, none of that comes across in the film.

PaulTMA

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2021, 10:04:25 PM »
There was a bit in one of Jim Bob's two books where Carter played a gig in Paris and he discovered visiting UK fans had written "YOU FAT BASTARD" on his namesake's grave

daf

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Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2021, 10:09:16 PM »
Oliver Stone's ridiculous film did more harm to the Doors' legacy than anything Morrison actually ever said or did.

Yeah, that film ruined The Doors for me.

I always think of him as a pretentious oaf and probably reeking of B.O. and stale piss - well done Val Kilmer!

« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 10:22:32 PM by daf »

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Jim Morrison and The Doors
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2021, 10:24:48 PM »
The Doors play a similar role to me and music like Bill Hicks did for comedy. 

You get introduced to them and they blow your young and tiny mind; so different and exciting and they become all consuming.  But they are just the visible and accessible tip of the iceberg and you see all the stuff that is behind and around them, stuff that it is consistently better, and there's more of it and more exciting and so you naturally move on to that.  You come to release that a lot of what they did was terrible, but you'll remain attached to their best stuff.  Though you never need to hear it again, it's always a pleasure to revisit.

I would just like to say that I agree with this. The Doors were my entry point into psychedelia, acid rock and The Velvet Underground, so I'll be forever grateful to them for that. And I still think, at their best, they were right up there with all the best 'freaky' stuff released around that time. And what a fucking great pop band too, those cats could write a tune.

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