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The Crime Procedurals thread

Started by Famous Mortimer, May 04, 2021, 06:56:05 PM

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Famous Mortimer

Because there's actually some news, for once.

CSI is back!

William Petersen, Jorja Fox and Wallace Langham are all returning as series regulars for the new show, and Paul Guilfoyle (Brass) is showing up for a few episodes. Petersen is in his late 60s, but given Joe Mantegna was still a field agent on Criminal Minds well into his 70s, it shouldn't be a problem. I've heard all sorts of rumours about the plot of the new show, but the most common one is that the boss of the crime lab is a woman with a teenage son who's addicted to something or other, and some big crime causes them to bring Grissom out of retirement, Sydal out of probably being in charge of some crappy crime lab somewhere, and Hodges from the office two doors down where he's been working this entire time.

I'm taking a break from New York and Miami so I can get to the right spot in Vegas so, when I'm watching them in order, I can get to the super-crossover episodes at the same time. I just watched an episode where Brass goes to LA to help his daughter, who's a junkie prostitute there now (after being a junkie prostitute in Vegas for a while). It stuck out like a sore thumb as a back-door pilot for the LA people (all of whom were given decently fleshed out characters, and were played by actors just famous enough to be in their own network crime show), but I presume the contractual issues got worked out and everyone came back to the mothership for season 6.

I'm going to take a guess that the ratings will start off great, then dip, and then they'll bring back everyone from the main show who's still alive, and possibly a few people from the other CSIs too.

Feel free to not talk about CSI, though. What's your favourite procedural?

chveik

i'm considering having a go at NYPD Blue (cause David Milch was a writer on that show). is it worth it?

mothman

It was fun at the time but got a bit repetitive after a while. Don't know if it'll have aged well or not. Hill Street Blues stands the test of time, maybe because it is obviously a period piece now. The mid nineties by comparison don't seem that long ago...

bgmnts

They're gonna do a MAGA episode, a MeToo episode and an episode with a Russian spy.

Had big hots for Jorja Fox on that show as a wee lad though.

The Culture Bunker

I used to watch, and slightly enjoy, the original CSI maybe ten years ago, but I think I preferred the amped-up daftness of the Miami brand.

NCIS was shallow as a puddle but quite enjoyable for a time, till it seemed half the cast had been replaced. Was surprised to find out recently they're still making new episodes, despite yer main man knocking 70 on the door.

Echo Valley 2-6809

I've never seen any CSI, sorry. No idea why - it's on my long watch list, which means I'll probably die first.

I watched a fair bit of NYPD Blue when it was on TV and thought it was brilliant (Andy Sipowicz is one of the most compelling characters I've seen), but all the episodes were at the midway point so I'm going to do it all again from start to finish. Trouble is for some reason it's bafflingly expensive (I don't do torrents), so I have to keep putting it off. Shows like The Shield are free with Prime, but why not that?

Talking of The Shield - spoiler ahead but it is 20 years old - I'm on Season 3 right now, and mostly enjoying it, but I've just seen the episode with Dutch and the cat, and I still can't believe they didn't frame it as a dream.
Possibly the most stupidly misjudged moment I've ever seen in serious fictional TV, aside from the question of taste.

Is that scene a point of no return, or does the show manage to get past it? I'm on the verge of giving up on watching another 4 seasons.

Also I wish I hadn't recently found out that Michael Jace - who plays Julien the self-loathing gay cop - murdered his wife 5 years ago and is serving a 40-year jail sentence.

Mobius

Quote from: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 04, 2021, 10:35:34 PM
Talking of The Shield - spoiler ahead but it is 20 years old - I'm on Season 3 right now, and mostly enjoying it, but I've just seen the episode with Dutch and the cat, and I still can't believe they didn't frame it as a dream.
Possibly the most stupidly misjudged moment I've ever seen in serious fictional TV, aside from the question of taste.
Is that scene a point of no return, or does the show manage to get past it? I'm on the verge of giving up on watching another 4 seasons.

That bit was a tad silly, but you should definitely continue because it's a cracking show.

paruses

I love settling into a CSI:Original marathon from time to time but my cheap box sets are tucked away in Ireland for the forseeable future.

A couple of later series and a very early Homicide: Life on the Street(s?) are also there. I bought it on a  whim from Cex and quite enjoyed it. Captain Holt is very good. Can't remember much about it but should have a binge some time.

Anyone watch Southlands (again can't remember if that's a plural or not)? Very pro-cop but I think I watched all of them and enjoyed it very very much. Never see it mentioned.

Echo Valley 2-6809

Quote from: Mobius on May 04, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
That bit was a tad silly, but you should definitely continue because it's a cracking show.

Then I'm back, baby! It was obvious what they were trying to imply, but even a cerebral weirdo like Dutch wouldn't have gone that far.

Hope they get past that as soon as possible, and that Mackey emerges triumphant fucks it all up.

PS  Does the guy playing Ronnie get any better at acting?

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 04, 2021, 11:22:01 PM
Then I'm back, baby! It was obvious what they were trying to imply, but even a cerebral weirdo like Dutch wouldn't have gone that far.

Hope they get past that as soon as possible, and that Mackey emerges triumphant fucks it all up.

PS  Does the guy playing Ronnie get any better at acting?

The cat scene was entirely due to Kurt Sutter, who also lobbied hard for Dutch - I wish I was making this up - to become a serial killer but Shawn Ryan wisely overruled him. This may explain the role that Sutter created for Jay Karnes in Sons of Anarchy.

re: Ronnie, yeah I would say so.

Personally, I think the final episode of The Shield is as good as it gets - a tremendously satisfying conclusion. I think that's partly because Ryan had a clear idea for what he wanted to happen and there was a good Q&A with him and some of the cast and Ryan talked about what he has researched for inspiration (e.g. Julian's situation.)


Echo Valley 2-6809

Thanks. Didn't know about the writing conflict behind the Dutch incident. I'm trying to avoid diving into any behind-the-scenes stuff until I've finished with it. I'd guess Karnes might not have been too pleased about his character doing that - in the old days of weekly episodes on TV there'd have been a lot of mad cat-lovers turning against him, especially when he was being portrayed as hapless but likeable until then.

I'm not familiar with Sons of Anarchy but I'll mark it.

Famous Mortimer

Just watched the end of season 5 of CSI, the double episode directed by Quentin Tarantino (he also has a story credit, but didn't write the actual script). There are a couple of shots which definitely feel like him, and I think the actors were having a good time too. Really good stuff.

Famous Mortimer

I'm now in a spot where all three CSIs were airing at the same time.

As much as I loved Miami in the early days, it's made some puzzling choices. Former DNA lab boss Boa Vista, who was the mole in the office reporting back to the FBI in season 4, has - for no good reason - become a CSI field agent in season 5 - I understand why the actors want to do it, as it must be boring just doing a few minutes of lab scenes every episode, but the pay cut between the two real-life jobs would be obscene.

Anyway. She was having an on-again, off-again thing with Delko (Adam Rodriguez) but that seems to be an off thing at the moment. Her ex husband shows up, who has just got out of a decent-sized jail term for assaulting her and breaking her arm. She had a restraining order out against him, but it's expired and no-one thought to remind her of this fact. Anyway, he aggressively approaches her at her place of work, then starts an argument with her at a crime scene (he bought a scanner so he could track her down). Because she's angry with him, he then goes and gets a restraining order on her! Then gets a job as a crime scene cleanup person and forces her to leave crime scenes because she's not 100 feet away from him!

This is a sequence of events of real "will this do?" plotting. She shouldn't be a CSI, or if she was she should have moved to another city where she hadn't alienated the rest of her co-workers. Or she should have moved to another high-paying DNA job. Her ex-husband should have been immediately arrested, or her restraining order should have been renewed. To enjoy these shows, I don't expect high-end prestige TV, I just expect them to not make me go "there's no fucking way!" several times an hour.

New York remains a show with great supporting actors but an intensely dull main twosome (Gary Sinise and Melina Kanakaredes); and the Las Vegas one has gotten to the point where Gil and Sarah are a couple. Miami remains my favourite, mostly because David Caruso is perfect for the role, but it needs to get back on track (having weird, huge crimes and quips).

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 04, 2021, 10:35:34 PM
I've never seen any CSI, sorry. No idea why - it's on my long watch list, which means I'll probably die first.

I watched a fair bit of NYPD Blue when it was on TV and thought it was brilliant (Andy Sipowicz is one of the most compelling characters I've seen), but all the episodes were at the midway point so I'm going to do it all again from start to finish. Trouble is for some reason it's bafflingly expensive (I don't do torrents), so I have to keep putting it off. Shows like The Shield are free with Prime, but why not that?

Talking of The Shield - spoiler ahead but it is 20 years old - I'm on Season 3 right now, and mostly enjoying it, but I've just seen the episode with Dutch and the cat, and I still can't believe they didn't frame it as a dream.
Possibly the most stupidly misjudged moment I've ever seen in serious fictional TV, aside from the question of taste.

Is that scene a point of no return, or does the show manage to get past it? I'm on the verge of giving up on watching another 4 seasons.

Also I wish I hadn't recently found out that Michael Jace - who plays Julien the self-loathing gay cop - murdered his wife 5 years ago and is serving a 40-year jail sentence.

I just finished The Shield for the 2nd time, also shocked about Jace but didnt mind Dutch cat killer, was a nice swerve

Glad CSI is back

badaids

Quote from: Mobius on May 04, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
That bit was a tad silly, but you should definitely continue because it's a cracking show.

The Shield is a very silly show, but still an all time favorite.  It's basically Judge Dredd.   

Famous Mortimer

CSI Miami once again comes up with the ludicrous plot device. A  couple of seasons ago, they arrested a judge for murder. He was all "while I'm on probation, I'll make sure every case you get involved with ends badly for you", as if this was a world where they'd let a judge hear the cases of the guy who arrested him for murder. Or hear any cases, for that matter, as there'd be endless appeals.

So, he popped up once in the intervening years, but season 5 and he's back, having got off murder on a technicality. A judge! Amazingly, he murdered someone else, and this time they've got evidence for it. Now, I'm not expert on employment law, but I'm thinking a judge arrested for murder twice would be immediately fired (however Florida does it), but I'm expecting him to show up again.

Oh, and New York had Edward Furlong as the villain in one episode, looking as rough as he's ever looked, and he escaped from jail and is now evading New York's finest. When that's only the second dumbest CSI plotline you've seen this week, you know it's a good week for dumb plotlines.

Leej88

I wish policemen acted how they did back in the old days, all softly now if they act like an animal treat them like an animal.

tourism

do you treat animals badly or something?

paruses

CBS seem to have stopped their CSI run for now and have gone mad on Medium which is shit but I am slightly obsessed with Patricia Arquette in it. That's been a revelation.

On the subject of Boa Vista - wasn't she police before becoming a CSI?

mippy

Quote from: tourism on June 15, 2021, 04:50:08 PM
do you treat animals badly or something?

If the perp rolls over, give them a biscuit.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: paruses on June 15, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
On the subject of Boa Vista - wasn't she police before becoming a CSI?
She was head of the DNA lab, and was introduced when they moved to a fancy new set, with the plot justification that she'd been instrumental in getting the funding for the new place. I think.

paruses

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on June 16, 2021, 05:04:47 PM
She was head of the DNA lab, and was introduced when they moved to a fancy new set, with the plot justification that she'd been instrumental in getting the funding for the new place. I think.

Oh yes. I'd mixed my franchises and characters up. I was thinking of Sofia Curtis in CSI: Original - she was a bit of a hybrid police and CSI. And also looks not much like the screen shot on the wikipedia page.

I hated the new Miami set - the light hurt my eyes. It looked a migraine inducing nightmare to work in - always at a permanent sun-down.

phantom_power

I love a good "person uses their odd personality trait/abilities to solve crimes". I have worked my way through The Mentalist and Elementary and am going through the similarly-veined Castle. I have Lie to Me, Monk and Psych to try after that.

I also really enjoy The Rookie, despite it being a bit cheesy. Maybe it is just Nathan Fillion

I have never seen a CSI before. What is the appeal? Where would one start?

Bently Sheds

I've been enjoying Justified on Amazon Prime. It's kind of a procedural, mixed with Breaking Bad and old 50s westerns. Timothy Oliphant is great as the main man Deputy US Marshall Wayland Givens, as is Walton Goggins as his good friend and local fledgling crime lord Boyd Crowder.

It's kind of tongue in cheek, but then also pretty dark and gritty in places. I saw it mentioned favourably in a Reddit thread about "shows to watch after you've finished Breaking Bad" and, although it's not as grimdark and realistic as BB, it's still an entertaining 40-odd minutes of telly with some great characters in it. It's also one of those shows that has a shit-ton of recognisable American character actors in it (including a fabulous turn by Esteemed Character Actor And Fugitive From Justice Margo Martindale).

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: phantom_power on June 21, 2021, 09:57:02 AM
I have never seen a CSI before. What is the appeal? Where would one start?
If you can't be bothered with an ongoing narrative and just want a decently made 45 minute tale, it's a good choice. There are also some fun characters to watch doing their thing (Grissom in Vegas, Caine and Speedle in Miami, Messer and Flack in New York) and there's plenty of "that guy" actors to spot.

In terms of where to start, just pick one at random, probably. If you like it, stick with it, if not, then don't force yourself.

gilbertharding

Whenever I scroll through the Freeview guide and notice CSI:NY is on some channel, I always hear Wooden Ships in my head.

Bernice

Quote from: Bently Sheds on June 21, 2021, 10:33:39 AM
I've been enjoying Justified on Amazon Prime. It's kind of a procedural, mixed with Breaking Bad and old 50s westerns. Timothy Oliphant is great as the main man Deputy US Marshall Wayland Givens, as is Walton Goggins as his good friend and local fledgling crime lord Boyd Crowder.

It's kind of tongue in cheek, but then also pretty dark and gritty in places. I saw it mentioned favourably in a Reddit thread about "shows to watch after you've finished Breaking Bad" and, although it's not as grimdark and realistic as BB, it's still an entertaining 40-odd minutes of telly with some great characters in it. It's also one of those shows that has a shit-ton of recognisable American character actors in it (including a fabulous turn by Esteemed Character Actor And Fugitive From Justice Margo Martindale).

I love Justified, although I'm not sure I'd call it a procedural, especially as it goes on and becomes increasingly serialized. It does have that great Elmore Leonard energy of just setting up a bunch of fun characters and having them all bounce around the same little hermetic world, each contact between them sparking that bright, cynical dialogue before they eventually shoot each other.

Sebastian Cobb

Spiral/Engrenages is essential and all on iPlayer for the next 5 months.

Famous Mortimer

My most recently watched episode of CSI NY goes in the "multiple people should have lost their jobs in this episode" pile. Sheldon, the doctor turned CSI, is arrested for murder - job loss one, as it's mentioned in the Miami version that simply being arrested is an instant job loss.

Okay, he didn't do it, obviously. It was criminal mastermind...Edward Furlong, at his schlubbiest and most junkie-like. Mac and Buonasera repeatedly interject themselves into the investigation after being told not to - job losses two and three, as they're jeopardising an investigation. Messer goes so far as to hassle the one eye witness to try and get him to change his story - job loss four, and he'd be doing some jail time, I'd think.

But, of course, we're supposed to think they're noble. This was dumb even by this series' low standards.

Famous Mortimer

More updates from CSI Miami!

I've mentioned a few times that Miami said that if you were arrested for anything, it was an instant loss of your job. Boa Vista is arrested for the murder of her ex-husband, but as the real killer, in rather convoluted fashion, was found out later, she was fine. Best guess, the writers forgot that bit and no-one who did remember bothered speaking up.

Oh, her ex-husband was recently released from jail, and had a job cleaning up crime scenes. He lived in a palatial apartment, and they kind of half-handwaved it away by saying he was stealing from the job, but there's no way he could have robbed enough to have not been caught immediately and to have paid for that place.