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Why is no one talking about what happened to Dalian Atkinson?

Started by TrenterPercenter, May 06, 2021, 10:29:55 PM

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TrenterPercenter

Have people not seen the story?

A black man died who was clearly having an acute psychotic episode who was then tasered for 33 seconds by a police officer (when you are only meant to taser people for 5 secs); who witnesses say then went on to stamp on his head, whilst he was unconscious. 3 times, whilst his accompanying officer struck him with a baton.  The police officers involved have both been charged with murder and manslaughter.

Sound familiar? Fair play to Guardian who have given it top billing for the last couple of days but I'm surprised no one appears to be discussing it much.  It is a pretty shocking case and I'm wondering whether the fact he was a footballer has made people disinterested; he was ill and vulnerable and if the allegations are true I can't see how this is not murder (the coroner has said he would not have died if he had not been tasered or kicked in the head).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/06/dalian-atkinson-trial-officer-told-victim-to-keep-his-head-down-jurors-hear

Wonderful Butternut

tbh I assumed it was here somewhere in a thread I hadn't gone through yet.

But yeah, they obviously straight up murdered the guy. That's what stamping a bloke's head tends to achieve. I cannot imagine a basis on which that can be defended.

buttgammon

I find it very worrying that this hasn't been more talked about; a black man being murdered by the police sounds like a very significant story to me, and a disgusting, damming one at that.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 06, 2021, 10:32:23 PM
tbh I assumed it was here somewhere in a thread I hadn't gone through yet.

But yeah, they obviously straight up murdered the guy. That's what stamping a bloke's head tends to achieve...

Yes that tends to be the case; utterly disgusting and despite him being threatening to his family it was clear to anyone he was unwell and needed deescalation and treatment.  This kind of thing happens too often with people suffering with these conditions; there are ways of approaching these situations that keep everyone safe.

Zetetic

It's alright, he was having a mental health when they murdered him.

imitationleather

It's been on Channel 4 News every day of the trial, so it is getting out there in some of the media at least.

Mobius

I read that story yesterday and it made me feel sick. Just disgusting and so sad, poor guy.

Apparently the 2 coppers were in a relationship too... what a lovely couple.

Captain Z

We'll get round to solving this one as soon as we've sorted the Labour Party and Iceland Greggs issues.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: imitationleather on May 06, 2021, 10:42:57 PM
It's been on Channel 4 News every day of the trial, so it is getting out there in some of the media at least.

That is good to hear I've not really been watching any news but have been following the case; originally the story was that he was tasered and had an underlying heart condition; but obviously this was just what the two officers cooked up.  Thankfully there were witnesses.

It is incredibly sad.

TrenterPercenter

Does anyone know whether this is being covered by any of the MOTD team? Would seem very weird for them not to be focusing on this.

Zetetic

Has England implemented the Use of Force (Mental Health Units) Act yet?

(The rest of the UK don't even have equivalent legislation or civil society that would advocate for it.)

Doesn't matter - having a mental health.

Zetetic

Maybe we can discuss SIMS next?

But it doesn't matter.

chveik

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 06, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
Does anyone know whether this is being covered by any of the MOTD team? Would seem very weird for them not to be focusing on this.

no idea but i heard about this  on a sports site.

dandoystevski

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 06, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
Does anyone know whether this is being covered by any of the MOTD team? Would seem very weird for them not to be focusing on this.
The murder of Dalian Atkinson was brought up very briefly on the Guardian's Football Weekly this week. Someone emailed in asking them why they weren't discussing his murder on the programme and the host said they couldn't because it was the subject of an ongoing trial.

idunnosomename

I mean I heard this on Radio 4 the other day and was shocked by it (hmm maybe not best turn of phrase whatever)

Zetetic

Why would you be shocked by it?

They called in 11 Met cops to kill Seni Lewis in 2010. In a hospital.

I guess two in someone's home represents a surprising jump in efficiency.

Ambient Sheep

Jesus, the BBC report I read a day or two ago only mentioned kicking, not stamping.

The thing that I've not seen mentioned is why has this taken five years to come to trial?  Yes CoViD, but even without that it's still 3½ years.  I know our courts are backlogged, but for a fatal incident?!

Oh yes, caused by police.  That might explain it.

Kankurette

No-one? Plenty of football fans have. I'm a Sheffield Wednesday fan and he used to play for us, you're damn fucking right I'm angry. Not that I wouldn't be anyway if he wasn't a footballer, but I wish more of our fans and ex-players spoke out. Although i doubt the likes of Carlton Palmer care.

EOLAN

Will have to wait for full trial and Verdict. But does seem to be a strong case that the media at time were largely reporting the police PR spin on event. As I remember he had a weak heart and was needing severe action to get under control.
Any BBC report on recent events like Bristol riots or even Manchester United protests seems to be largely focused on the details that the police are feeding directly to them, with little further investigation or balance.

Also, football rivalry means I don't like Villa but Dalian Atkinson was one of the true star players when I started getting in football. A joy to watch and particularly that goal against Wimbledon is an all time classic. Sad to see a life taken too early.

Echo Valley 2-6809

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 06, 2021, 10:29:55 PM
Sound familiar? Fair play to Guardian who have given it top billing for the last couple of days but I'm surprised no one appears to be discussing it much.

Daily Mail has been covering it prominently, and not pro-police.

touchingcloth

People aren't talking about him because they don't know about him - the uninitiated (if we can call them that) tend to think that Stewart Lee is the stand-up's stand-up.

BlodwynPig

What's to discuss?

"incredibly sad", so much worse than that.

One talking point is the frequency of such crimes in the UK - was this a rare event, elevated by the fact that Atkinson was publicly known - or is this happening routinely to the homeless, the disenfranchised and the mentally unwell, all behind closed walls. I had thought this had been 'knocked on the head' by layers of transparency in the police force. Evidently not. What a chump I am.

I also feel that we should be hearing more about Dalian's life post-retirement, how did this happen? Who was looking out for him? We've seen in with a whole host of pros in the last couple of decades who have struggled with mental health problems, addiction and other issues.

Kankurette

Atkinson is of a generation who didn't talk about mental health. You had issues, you kept your mouth shut and got on with it. Ian Wright, who wears his heart on his sleeve, is a very notable exception. Neville Southall talks about this a lot in Mind Games. Apparently the players' association, whatever it's called, provides little support for ex-players. In Atkinson's day you had hazing and bullying and shit like Nigel Pearson smearing boot polish on an apprentice's face for not cleaning his boots properly, or apprentices being stuffed into sacks by senior players and this was somehow seen as normal.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on May 07, 2021, 08:49:41 AM
I also feel that we should be hearing more about Dalian's life post-retirement, how did this happen? Who was looking out for him? We've seen in with a whole host of pros in the last couple of decades who have struggled with mental health problems, addiction and other issues.

So Dalian was obviously a incredibly talented footballer who became ill effectively ending his career with Villa where he had been a star player (he went on to play for several other clubs afterwards but appeared to struggle wherever he was; ending his career at age only 32); this all happened in 90s when MH, even things like depression were barely even mentioned.  At the time it was put down to "personal problems".   

Is this a rare occurrence? A once high profile black man being murdered by the police yes perhaps; but the continued poor treatment of those with serious mental health conditions is sadly nothing new; it is and has been occurring for sometime; the perilous state of MH services is utterly shameful but it isn't sexy or interesting to talk about unless it is covered in certain ways.  I find it wild how people talk about inequality and impoverishment in this country and not consider who mainly these people are; Corbyn to his credit was all over this from the start (probably because of experiences with his brother) pointing out the relationship between MH and poverty.  There are still people around the world chained up for the crime of being ill; here we tend to stick people in a rundown flat; try and keep them medicated and send a case worker round every know and then to make sure they haven't killed themselves.  Families leave them; they become isolated and deteriorate.  It is abysmal.

Btw I used to deliver training to police and emergency staff on how to respond; so I'm somewhat involved (not in my role anymore) in these things; there is so much that could be done but there just isn't the funding; trust me your MHS services in all your major cities are completely underfunded with staff close to breaking point themselves; there was the promise of combining health with social care 6-7 years ago but we are still waiting..........it's a lovely thing to talk about for politicians and celebrities but the reality is very little translates down to service level.

Assertive outreach would have saved Dalian's life I've no doubt about this; we need to know a bit more but it very looks like the difference between him being alive or not is the type of person called to deal with the situation.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Kankurette on May 07, 2021, 09:24:13 AM
Atkinson is of a generation who didn't talk about mental health. You had issues, you kept your mouth shut and got on with it. Ian Wright, who wears his heart on his sleeve, is a very notable exception. Neville Southall talks about this a lot in Mind Games. Apparently the players' association, whatever it's called, provides little support for ex-players. In Atkinson's day you had hazing and bullying and shit like Nigel Pearson smearing boot polish on an apprentice's face for not cleaning his boots properly, or apprentices being stuffed into sacks by senior players and this was somehow seen as normal.

Btw if you have not read Paul Mcgrath's Back from the Brink - you should really try and find time it is utterly heart breaking and is a good dialogue on how people become ill and what they do in order to cope.  It is an incredible read.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 07, 2021, 09:42:43 AM
Btw if you have not read Paul Mcgrath's Back from the Brink - you should really try and find time it is utterly heart breaking and is a good dialogue on how people become ill and what they do in order to cope.  It is an incredible read.
Nobby Stiles wrote about depression/feeling suicidal in his book too.

I know of at least two men who didn't quite make the grade at United who subsequently killed themselves in their early 30s - Alan Davies (who played in the '83 cup final) and Martyn Rogers. I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes more common with young lads ditched by clubs who then have nowhere else to go - you've been groomed to be a star since the age of six or whatever, then suddenly you're 18 and have nowhere to go. I can't imagine how that would mess with your head. Indeed, I think there was a lad who had been at Man City who took his own life last year.

All of which is an aside from Dalian Atkinson, apologies.

Kankurette

Gary Speed as well. It's one reason why Grand Old Team (notoriously batshit Everton forum) has a mental health thread, and it is refreshing to see male fans feeling they can speak openly in there. Speed always had problems with depression - there's been a lot of speculation about whether he was one of Barry Bennell's victims, which is quite frankly ghoulish - and I know he left Everton because of Howard Kendall's drink problem when he was managing us the third time around.

ETA: Culture Bunker, do you mean Jeremy Wisten?

chveik

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 07, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
Assertive outreach would have saved Dalian's life I've no doubt about this; we need to know a bit more but it very looks like the difference between him being alive or not is the type of person called to deal with the situation.

i guess so but at the same time 'the suspect was having a psychotic' is often the police unions' excuse when some cops kill a black person just because they felt like it.

The Culture Bunker