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Why is no one talking about what happened to Dalian Atkinson?

Started by TrenterPercenter, May 06, 2021, 10:29:55 PM

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The Lurker

It's taken years to come to court too. I know there's been delays due to COVID but he died in 2016, ffs


Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 06, 2021, 10:29:55 PM
The police officers involved have both been charged with murder and manslaughter.

You probably noticed this since posting but I don't think it has been corrected in the thread - only Monk was charged with murder and manslaughter, now found guilty of the charge of manslaughter and cleared of murder. Bettley-Smith was charged with assault and the jury hasn't returned their verdict on that charge.

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on May 07, 2021, 01:21:12 AM
The thing that I've not seen mentioned is why has this taken five years to come to trial?  Yes CoViD, but even without that it's still 3½ years.  I know our courts are backlogged, but for a fatal incident?!

Oh yes, caused by police.  That might explain it.

This timeline shows some of the earlier delays, including a long IOPC investigation:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2019/11/07/dalian-atkinson-timeline-of-events-since-ex-footballers-death-2/

Quote from: Kankurette on May 07, 2021, 01:33:40 AM
No-one? Plenty of football fans have. I'm a Sheffield Wednesday fan and he used to play for us, you're damn fucking right I'm angry. Not that I wouldn't be anyway if he wasn't a footballer, but I wish more of our fans and ex-players spoke out. Although i doubt the likes of Carlton Palmer care.

Carlton Palmer has spoken out about this and about other police brutality and racism.

Quote from: Zetetic on May 06, 2021, 11:42:04 PM
Has England implemented the Use of Force (Mental Health Units) Act yet?

(The rest of the UK don't even have equivalent legislation or civil society that would advocate for it.)

Doesn't matter - having a mental health.

This was brought up in a recent committee on "Treatment of autistic people and individuals with learning disabilities" (27 April 2021). The Minister for Social Care at the Department of Health and Social Care said that she expected it to commence in November of this year. When Barbara Keeley mentions an 18 month delay in bringing the law into force I think she must have been missing one year out, since it received Royal Assent in November 2018. So it would have been 30 months since receiving Royal Assent then and would have taken three years if it is implemented in November 2021.

QuoteQ143 Barbara Keeley: I want to ask a follow-up question on the issue of the use of restraint, which Dr Ryan mentioned, and even about prosecuting people who physically abuse patients by the use of force.Minister, you spoke in 2017 in support of the Mental Health Units (Use of Force) Bill on its Second Reading. It received Royal Assent 18 months ago. We have heard from experts who have told us that it should be brought into force to tackle restrictive practices. You supported the Act when it was in the House. What has led to the delay in bringing in that piece of legislation? In October 2020, there were 3,500 restrictive interventions used in the settings we are talking about, and the number might be higher than that. There were 620 restrictive interventions used on children in these units. We have heard about five burly men restraining a young woman of 14. Why can we not move on that, even when we have a piece of legislation?

Helen Whately: It is a really important part of legislation. There has been work going on to implement it—

Q144 Barbara Keeley: But it is 18 months since it received Royal Assent. A colleague led it through Parliament, yet it is still not implemented.

Helen Whately: There are two things I can say. One is that the Government have been developing the statutory guidance to support the implementation of that Act, and I expect the Act to commence in November this year.

Q145 Barbara Keeley: Clearly, that is not of help to people who were restrained last year and all the children who were restrained last year. I am just pointing out that delays like that do not help, when we have a piece of legislation that would help.

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/2102/pdf/

Since then an open consultation has begun but I'm not sure if that indicates how close it is to implementation or what the purposes of open consultations are. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/the-law-about-use-of-force-in-mental-health-units-easy-read

What is SIMS?

bgmnts

Have any British police been prosecuted for murder? Wikipedia tells me three, two were convicted of sectarian killings in Norn Ireland and one was a legitimate serial killer?

It would definitely put the shits up the system if we started accepting that a lot of police engage in state sanctioned murder and are protected wouldn't it?

Zetetic

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on June 23, 2021, 04:29:22 PM
What is SIMS?
"Serenity Integrated Mentoring"

Use police to get people who asking for help to fuck off. (Beneath that, there's an exciting mess of lied-about data and failure to interrogate this that is interesting for other reasons.)

QuoteWithin this climate, a scheme of mental health and police collaboration was developed in England called Serenity Integrated Mentoring (SIM). This involves twice weekly visits by an allocated police officer 'mentor' to patients who have previously had police involvement in at least two mental health emergencies. Where people remained unwell and continued to self-harm, attempt suicide or report suicidality, in some cases they were prosecuted and imprisoned or community protection notices were applied which required them to stop self-harming or calling for help, with imprisonment as a potential sanction if they breached the notice.

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/news-and-features/latest-news/detail/2021/06/14/rcpsych-calls-for-urgent-and-transparent-investigation-into-nhs-innovation-accelerator-and-ahsn-following-hin-suspension

https://stopsim.co.uk/


Ambient Sheep

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on June 23, 2021, 04:29:22 PMThis timeline shows some of the earlier delays, including a long IOPC investigation:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2019/11/07/dalian-atkinson-timeline-of-events-since-ex-footballers-death-2/

Ah cheers, thanks for that.

QuoteSeptember 17, 2016 - Telford residents take part in the peaceful 'Justice for Dalian Atkinson March' past the town's Malinsgate Police station, demanding answers over his death and bringing traffic to a standstill.

Heartwarming to read.


Kankurette

I knew he'd been tasered, but I had no idea the cop kicked him so hard he got blood on his boots. Absolutely horrific.
Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on June 23, 2021, 04:29:22 PMCarlton Palmer has spoken out about this and about other police brutality and racism.
I am genuinely relieved to hear that.

idunnosomename

I think this is more about the institution of the police and how underprepared they are for incidents like this among all the banal shit they do as part of their authoritarian work rather than the individuals. much rather see Cressida Dick or the GREAT BRITAIN ONE NATION guy in court than these grunts


TrenterPercenter

Thanks Smeraldina.

Such a sad and infuriating tale; I bet the jury we all made very aware of how dangerous people in psychotic crisis are and how inhumanly powerful they can become.  He never stood a chance.

The Lurker

Jailed for eight years. Available for parole after serving two thirds of his sentence. What's going to happen to the female officer?

Either way, he's going to have a fucking tough time in prison, isn't he? Presumably he'll be on the vulnerable prisoners wing, how much protection do ex-coppers get in jail?

Kankurette

Not much, apparently.

I was reading about the Christopher Alder case earlier, which was absolutely horrifying. Five officers stood by and let him choke on his own blood and claimed he was just playacting. And they were acquitted.

Norton Canes

MAN'S LAUGHTER

Sorry, that's a really niche reference.

jenna appleseed



Quote from: The Lurker on June 29, 2021, 08:59:58 PM
What's going to happen to the female officer?

Dalian Atkinson: Retrial ordered for PC on footballer assault charge

The CPS had been granted 7 days from the 24th to decide whether to seek a retrial.

An article published in the Telegraph a week ago mentioned that if a retrial were ordered it wouldn't take place until late 2022 owing to the backlog in the crown courts.

Information about retrials after failure to reach a verdict:

QuoteFailure of Jury to Agree on a Verdict

There is a presumption that the prosecution will seek a re-trial where a jury fails to agree on a verdict at the first trial.

The following factors should be taken into account when considering a re-trial in these circumstances.

    The merits of the case;
    Likely reasons for the jury's failure to reach a verdict;
    The public interest in seeking a verdict
    The interests and views of the victim(s);
    Any views expressed by the trial judge;
    Prosecuting Advocate's opinion; and
    The views of the police.

QuoteWhere two juries fail to reach a verdict, the presumption is that the prosecution will not seek a third trial unless there are exceptional circumstances.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/retrials

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: Norton Canes on June 29, 2021, 10:07:53 PM
MAN'S LAUGHTER

Sorry, that's a really niche reference.

You wait until you realise what can be done with the word Therapist.

TrenterPercenter

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/26/police-formally-apologise-over-dalian-atkinson-death-after-officers-conviction

Still baffling (well, you know what I mean) how there has been so little discussion about this all.  I can't see why it isn't murder under UK law, we don't have first and second degree murder in the UK so it isn't so much about premeditation to kill but whether or not there was an intent to cause GBH - which I'd say tasering a man for 6 times the acceptable amount and kicking his unconscious body in the head doesn't apparently count.

Of course no video footage and no real interest of the media due to him being a black man with a mental health condition and not an attractive blonde white woman.

Kankurette

You'd think being a reasonably famous footballer might pique people's interests but apparently it doesn't.

Zetetic

Me, having my door kicked in at 0130 at night to be murdered by police officers:
I've heard of "'Early' Intervention", but this is ridiculous!

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on December 27, 2021, 09:14:59 AMOf course no video footage and no real interest of the media due to him being a black man with a mental health condition and not an attractive blonde white woman.

I suspect that someone with a different skin colour might have attracted a bit more media interest, but I doubt it'd have led to much more interrogation of the circumstances that led to their murder.


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on December 27, 2021, 12:16:44 PMMe, having my door kicked in at 0130 at night to be murdered by police officers:
I've heard of "'Early' Intervention", but this is ridiculous!

Silly joke, but worth pointing out the whole point of EIP is so that people don't transition to the kind of psychotic illnesses that Dalian had; you have to understand how psychosis actually works to understand this however.  That is the point of EIP Z, it's completely predicated on people not being sectioned, on getting early support and care which can reduce the impact of the prolonged and continuous episodes of psychosis on the brain.


QuoteI suspect that someone with a different skin colour might have attracted a bit more media interest, but I doubt it'd have led to much more interrogation of the circumstances that led to their murder.

Ish the fact that he was a professional footballer is the only reason you are hearing even this piss poor level of media coverage and investigation.  Like Duggan and Lawrence it has largely been the family and local community that carried out the activism for justice which managed to capture some of the attention of people alleged to be interested in these kind of things (fair play to Novara who did actually cover it once at least).

Zetetic

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on December 27, 2021, 01:22:25 PMSilly joke, but worth pointing out the whole point of EI is so that people don't transition to the kind of psychotic illnesses that Dalian had; you have to understand how psychosis actually works to understand this however. 
Me, having my door kicked in at 0130 at night to be murdered by police officers:
I've been patronised a lot about "Early Intervention", but now I'm being murdered by police officers!

Zetetic



TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on December 27, 2021, 01:24:51 PMMe, having my door kicked in at 0130 at night to be murdered by police officers:
I've been patronised a lot about "Early Intervention", but now I'm being murdered by police officers!

Seriously what is this shite. It's not something I want anything to do with tbh. 

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on December 27, 2021, 01:27:54 PMOr more relevantly still, Seni Lewis.

Only if you see the most important thing about this case being the victims mental health condition.  He didn't die from being restrained either.

Zetetic

They both died from police responses to mental health crises, they both died from the use of inappropriate force, that force was probably partly related to the colour of their skin, and Lewis's case only gained the prominence and sort-of-impact it did through the concerted efforts of his family.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on December 27, 2021, 01:47:23 PMThey both died from police responses to mental health crises, they both died from the use of inappropriate force, that force was probably partly related to the colour of their skin, and Lewis's case only gained the prominence and sort-of-impact it did through the concerted efforts of his family.

One died from being restrained by a group of police men in a hospital and one died on a road by being tasered and then kicked in the head by a police officer that had already been charged with violent conduct. 

The comparison with Lawrence and Duggan was to do with the media coverage that was more easily provoked by the community response (Duggan is particularly interesting here as the media sensationalising and misrepresentation of his death had a part-Barbara Striesland effect for the Met). Seni Lewis didn't receive as much national coverage as either of those two, that doesn't make him more relevant in the comparison I was making for the reason I was making it (he is just another of sadly a long list of people with MH conditions dying at the hands of the police).