Malcolm in the Middle re-watch

[dead-ced-dead]

I enjoy seeing the bits they dropped, like Hal having a ridiculous amount of body hair, or Lois walking around topless.

They bring back the body hair a couple of times (hair in the pancakes) but it's minimised.

[Kelvin]

Loving that this thread is persuading people to give the show another try.

All of the characters should be unlikable, but through the great performances but especially the writing, they're always sympathetic or at least pitiable; especially Malcolm or Reese, who would so easy to make cunts.

I think they do get the balance wrong with Malcolm later on. In early seasons, Malcolm is a little bastard, but you do at least get the sense that he's not a bad kid underneath it all, and fundamentally, you feel sorry for him a lot of the time - he's an outsider everywhere he goes - and Muniz brings a sweetness and vulnerability to his performance that is lacking later on.

As he gets older, though, Malcolm really does transform into a fairly unlovable narcissist, whose problems are increasingly his own fault. It's why the final speech from Lois in that final episode, about him needing to struggle and suffer in order to become a better person fundamentally rings true. Because by that point in the series, he really was becoming a little prick. 

[madhair60]

I'm about halfway through season one and enjoying myself, hopefully I'll actually have something of consequence to say at some point. probably not though. i don't just mean about malcolm in the middle either i mean ever. about anything

[Noodle Lizard]

Cloris Leachman as Lois's mum is another great recurring character. I just looked her up and was surprised to discover she only died this January!

I remember being confused by the term "Krelboyne" when I was younger, and when I finally looked it up years later I was surprised that such an obscure reference was used so matter-of-factly by everyone in the show, as if you were supposed to be completely au fait with it.

As he gets older, though, Malcolm really does transform into a fairly unlovable narcissist, whose problems are increasingly his own fault.

This is addressed quite often before that final speech from Lois, especially in the episode where he's playing some sort of Sims game and his character always ends up miserable, despite being given unrealistically high stats. I actually appreciated that they didn't stick with the conceit of him being "the gifted straight man" surrounded by idiots, as many sitcoms would've done. Instead, they seemed to imply quite strongly several times over that having that impression of himself would be his downfall. There's also that one where he meets essentially a future version of himself played by Jason Alexander.

I suppose you could also argue that Dewey is a mirror image of Malcolm, to an extent. He's often shown to be incredibly gifted (albeit artistically rather than academically), but since his achievements often go unappreciated, he has none of the ego that Malcolm seems to have developed and will likely go on to be a happier, more fulfilled person - succeeding because he loves what he does, rather than because he thinks it's his destiny or right. I think they more or less come out and say it during that final exchange when Hal says Dewey's the one who gets to be rich and happy in the future, whereas Malcolm will have to constantly struggle.

The characterisation is really very clever. I'm struggling to think of another show which nailed a realistic family dynamic quite that well.

[Gulftastic]

I remember being confused by the term "Krelboyne" when I was younger, and when I finally looked it up years later I was surprised that such an obscure reference was used so matter-of-factly by everyone in the show, as if you were supposed to be completely au fait with it.

Speaking of the school kids, the one bit that really sticks out as dodgy is 'deploying the special shield' during the schoolyard war that breaks out when the Krelboynes are sent in to gen pop. Really awful portrayal of the learning disabled.

[Noodle Lizard]

Speaking of the school kids, the one bit that really sticks out as dodgy is 'deploying the special shield' during the schoolyard war that breaks out when the Krelboynes are sent in to gen pop. Really awful portrayal of the learning disabled.

Oh, I remember that episode but not that particular moment. I'll have to have a look. When I rewatched it recently, I was surprised at how little it had soured in terms of that sort of thing, especially for an "irreverent" early-2000s show, but perhaps I missed a few bits.

[JaDanketies]

4Music used to also warn you that it contains depictions of disability that may be considered offensive before some episodes. Definitely Dewie's special education classmates was something that was acceptable 20 years ago but less-so nowadays. On the other hand, Stevie's character was a very progressive view of disability for the time-period. I guess it's a bit like Apu on the Simpsons. Something can be progressive one year and then regressive several decades later. I wouldn't want anyone to be turned off on rewatching the show based on this.

edit: called Dewie 'Stewie' by mistake

[Kelvin]

This is addressed quite often before that final speech from Lois, especially in the episode where he's playing some sort of Sims game and his character always ends up miserable, despite being given unrealistically high stats. I actually appreciated that they didn't stick with the conceit of him being "the gifted straight man" surrounded by idiots, as many sitcoms would've done. Instead, they seemed to imply quite strongly several times over that having that impression of himself would be his downfall. There's also that one where he meets essentially a future version of himself played by Jason Alexander.

Oh, it's definitely intended and addressed throughout the later series. His ego and narcissism is at the root of most of his standalone plotlines. I just don't think they do enough to balance that out with other qualities that make you empathise with him in spite of his failings, whereas other abrasive personalities like Lois and Reece always retain a likeability, both because of how they're written and also how they're played. I just think that Malcolm fundamentally loses out in both those areas as he gets older. The fact that the show is aware that he's a self absorbed cunt doesn't make him any more bearable when he's treating everyone else like shit. And they walk that line much more successfully with the other characters.     

[Noodle Lizard]

4Music used to also warn you that it contains depictions of disability that may be considered offensive before some episodes. Definitely Stewie's special education classmates was something that was acceptable 20 years ago but less-so nowadays. On the other hand, Stevie's character was a very progressive view of disability for the time-period. I guess it's a bit like Apu on the Simpsons. Something can be progressive one year and then regressive several decades later. I wouldn't want anyone to be turned off on rewatching the show based on this.

I think even the most trigger-happy tweeters would be really hard-pressed to say Stevie's character was "problematic" now (except maybe for the fact that he was played by a non-disabled actor). I can't imagine the number of kids watching in the early 2000s who'd never been exposed to the idea that they could be perfect friends with people who are physically/capably different to them before. I know that sounds patronising as all fuck, but as I'm co-parenting a 9-year-old now I realise just how important that sort of thing can be. Words from grown-ups don't always mean that much to kids that age, but accessible, unforced visual representations of people they can relate to are far more impactful.

I'm not disabled myself in any way (except for perhaps a few social/mental things), but I remember MITM being one of the few shows that made me feel less unusual and alone as an adolescent, specifically when it came to the Krelboynes.

Oh, it's definitely intended and addressed throughout the later series. His ego and narcissism is at the root of most of his standalone plotlines. I just don't think they do enough to balance that out with other qualities that make you empathise with him in spite of his failings, whereas other abrasive personalities like Lois and Reece always retain a likeability, both because of how they're written and also how they're played. I just think that Malcolm fundamentally loses out in both those areas as he gets older. The fact that the show is aware that he's a self absorbed cunt doesn't make him any more bearable when he's treating everyone else like shit. And they walk that line much more successfully with the other characters.   

You might be right. I do remember his plots becoming less and less interesting as it went on. That said, I remember episodes like the prom one where he sort of doubles-down on being anti-conformist at the expense of simply having a good time ringing very true to me when I saw it as a "high-schooler". It makes him seem petty and almost incurably self-sabotaging, but that's something I certainly had experience with, so to see it represented on screen was at least somewhat cathartic.

[Lungpuddle]

I do love the show and probably always will, but I'm never going to watch the Morp episode again because of the Malcolm-is-just-an-idiot-dickhead-by-that-point stuff that you're talking about. There's a B-plot in (I think) the last season where Hal is at war with a bee and takes it out using his car. I found that one a complete waste of time but at least it was lightweight fluff so it I enjoy it more than Malcolm's stand against prom night. It could be a case of hitting too close to home, though.

[MojoJojo]

Of course, there is quite a sad coda in that despite being the star of one of the biggest American sitcoms of its era, Frankie Muniz doesn't actually remember being in it.

https://www.nme.com/news/frankie-muniz-doesnt-remember-malcolm-in-the-middle-2148714

In the third episode, Malcolm has an aside to the camera where he says "The good thing about this head injury is I won't remember most of this" which made me wince a bit.

[retsuza]

It's unbelievably good, loved it as a kid, love it as an adult.

It was probably the only show that my entire family (5 kids of various ages and my parents) really enjoyed and watched every time there was a new episode. As others have said, there really is something for everyone in the show, it's relatable in lots of different ways.

[Kelvin]

In the third episode, Malcolm has an aside to the camera where he says "The good thing about this head injury is I won't remember most of this" which made me wince a bit.

Muniz has had unbelievably bad luck post-Malcolm. He had the mini strokes and memory loss (although apparently some of his memories of MitM have returned, according to his twitter); broke his back in a racing accident; his house and almost everything he owned were completely destroyed when his cat turned on a tap while he and his wife were away; he got stung by a scorpion in the mouth; broke his ankle, broke his knee; split his head open rafting; was involved in a "major car accident" to quote: "In my own driveway... Involving two of my own cars."; and was in a motorcycle accident while going 1mph.

One heart-warming anecdote, though, is that Bryan Cranston has always kept in contact with the three boys, and still regularly calls them to see how they are.

[JaDanketies]

He's not had the worst life though. He's been a racecar driver and a musician. Seems he's living for his passions after achieving financial security as a teenager.

I do worry about Dewie, and whether or not he actually wanted to be on the show and enjoyed being on the show, considering how he has deliberately evaded the limelight and doesn't even have a social media presence. He was too young to make his own decisions when he started acting on Malcolm. Hope he's happy and doesn't regret it.

[phes]

This is the first tv comedy I have laughed out loud at a lot since as long as I can remember. Cheers for the recc

'This man wasn't only an alcoholic, pervert janitor'

Whole episode had me in tears. And that is where I'll depart this thread until I've hoovered this up

[Kelvin]

He's not had the worst life though. He's been a racecar driver and a musician. Seems he's living for his passions after achieving financial security as a teenager.

Yeah, of course, he's had amazing highs and lows. But I don't think that takes away from the fact that a number of those things you wouldn't wish on anybody. Severe memory loss? A broken back? The destruction of a huge portion of his possessions?  And a body that, according to him, is completely fucked now?

[mjwilson]

The scorpion thing does sound kinda funny though. (Not for him obviously.)

[Captain Z]

Muniz has had unbelievably bad luck post-Malcolm. He had the mini strokes and memory loss (although apparently some of his memories of MitM have returned, according to his twitter); broke his back in a racing accident; his house and almost everything he owned were completely destroyed when his cat turned on a tap while he and his wife were away; he got stung by a scorpion in the mouth; broke his ankle, broke his knee; split his head open rafting; was involved in a "major car accident" to quote: "In my own driveway... Involving two of my own cars."; and was in a motorcycle accident while going 1mph.

It was the worst Christmas ever.

[Kelvin]

The scorpion thing does sound kinda funny though. (Not for him obviously.)

Oh absolutely. I included the last few just because they make him sound like an actual sitcom character.

[dead-ced-dead]

I love how mean the humour often is; it's like a deliberate subversion. A resistance to melodrama. Even the moving moments, like the boys driving the golf cart into the pool to avenge Lois, has a maniacal energy.

My favourite moment:



But when they do allow themselves moments of sentimentality, it's really earned, and it's a time to get the hankies out to wipe away the tears.

"I love that nothing in my life is complete until I've shared it with you."

[Kelvin]

I love how mean the humour often is; it's like a deliberate subversion.

Oh god, yes. I actually find quite a lot of the jokes and implied details to be quite shocking for a show that's ostensibly aimed at a family audience - and of course it's arguably more shocking when you see a really dark joke in a show like this rather than in a show aimed more explicitly at an older, more cynical audience. Stuff like Reece deciding he's going to beat up Stevie, but trying to even the odds and make himself feel less guilty by numbing his legs in icy water and visibly stabbing them with an ice-pick. I just think that's crazy for a live action family sitcom, and wouldn't be out of place in something like Always Sunny.

[Lungpuddle]

Oh god, yes. I actually find quite a lot of the jokes and implied details to be quite shocking for a show that's ostensibly aimed at a family audience - and of course it's arguably more shocking when you see a really dark joke in a show like this rather than in a show aimed more explicitly at an older, more cynical audience. Stuff like Reece deciding he's going to beat up Stevie, but trying to even the odds and make himself feel less guilty by numbing his legs in icy water and visibly stabbing them with an ice-pick. I just think that's crazy for a live action family sitcom, and wouldn't be out of place in something like Always Sunny.

Oh God, that's reminded me of the episode where Reece gets sunburned and intends to peel the skin off and clone himself. Not sure if I found that thread funny, but it's admirable that they did that and got away with it.

[BritishHobo]

I loved that episode, especially that they went the whole hog and actually showed his full-body skin-peel several times throughout. What a disgusting image!

Also Kelvin your post made me think of the episode with the circle-punch game, where Stevie keeps falling for the trick and so Rees gets to keep punching him, to the point it becomes genuinely distressing for everyone. Might be the same episode, I can't remember.

[Kelvin]

I loved that episode, especially that they went the whole hog and actually showed his full-body skin-peel several times throughout. What a disgusting image!

Another gross image is the punchline to Hal buying a hot tub. He goes out after a few days to find it's

Spoiler alert

gained a thick coat of slime, but unable to admit it was a mistake to Lois, he climbs into it regardless. Cut to them at the doctor's with a perfect line of vicious red boils covering his entire body below the chest. Doctor says something like, "Take these tablets to kill the bacteria, and this one to kill whatever's wedged in your urethra."

[close]

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I've been making my way through the whole series since it turned up on All 4. Perhaps because the BBC used to put it on in the afternoon, or the number of kids in the cast, I've always thought of it as somehow not a "proper" sitcom. That is, of course, completely silly. It's a blinking ace sitcom, as funny as any other I can think of.
I think I'm up to the 7th series and I've not noticed any real drop off in quality. There's certainly nothing resembling a shark jump, which is remarkable, considering how much the kids aged over the years and how much the situations change.

[JaDanketies]

There's certainly nothing resembling a shark jump

It's actually Season 7 Episode 1 that I cited as the shark jump earlier itt, the

Spoiler alert

Burning Man

[close]

episode. But I would say the decline in quality was a little bit earlier than that. For instance when a young Hayden Panettiere turns up. To be honest, looking at the season synopsis of S6 and 7, they're still really funny, like S6 when Hayden Panettiere

Spoiler alert

convinces Reece and Malcolm that the other one is gay

[close]

. And the S6 episode where they

Spoiler alert

protest the sexist billboard

[close]

- it's still very funny, but tonally it feels quite a lot different to early Malcolm.

I guess the tonal shift makes sense though because Reece and Malcolm are pretty much adults by that point. And while I previously criticised how fraught the relationship between Lois and Malcolm seems to be at that point, I suppose there are still episodes that show their complex love for Lois, such as the

Spoiler alert

beauty competition

[close]

episode that rounds off Season 6.

Really any mention of a Shark Jump has to note that the quality of every episode is brilliant, so even subsequent shark-jump episodes are still far better than almost anything else on the telly.

Talking about the episodes that are very offensive to the senses and very bold for a family-orientated sitcom, the Season 6

Spoiler alert

Pearl Harbour lawn ornament

[close]

episode has to be up there. That's the B-plot to the Hayden Panettiere

Spoiler alert

convinces Reece and Malcolm that the other one is gay

[close]

episode I mentioned earlier too, so even if I side-eye what Hayden's character's supposed to be about, the episodes she's in are still usually great.

tldr; I don't know what I'm talking about, even the characters and themes that didn't work for me are still surrounded by very funny scripts. But I stand by not wanting to see

Spoiler alert

Malcolm lose his virginity at Burning Man to a significantly-older woman who blows him off shortly afterwards

[close]

and it definitely landmarked a tonal shift for me.

[olliebean]

As well as starting to rewatch Malcolm in the Middle, this thread has prompted me to start watching The Middle for the first time. What do people think of The Middle in relation to MitM? Rip-off, homage, or spiritual successor? There are certainly too many similarities to be unintentional.

[chveik]

i guess i'll have to watch this now. remember seeing a few episodes on french tv, i'm guessing the dubbing prevented me from properly enjoying it

[JaDanketies]

As well as starting to rewatch Malcolm in the Middle, this thread has prompted me to start watching The Middle for the first time. What do people think of The Middle in relation to MitM? Rip-off, homage, or spiritual successor? There are certainly too many similarities to be unintentional.

The Middle is very watchable and charming but there are far fewer laugh-out-loud moments. It's a lot warmer and fuzzier than Malcolm and less anarchic. But it's okay. I rate it but I've not watched every episode. It's about as funny as Everybody Loves Raymond, maybe a little funnier. It's good but it's not hysterical. And it beats Raymond by not having a laugh track.

One thing I like about these warm shows like The Middle is that they are very character-driven, so while you might not love it, you end up rooting for the characters. And then when you warm up to it, you start to find it funnier because you feel an empathy or kinship with them and you understand how their personalities intricately relate to the situations they've ended up in. In that respect, it's a bit like King of the Hill. Except for King of the Hill is better. It's that kind of comedy where there aren't any jokes or farces.

I feel like I need to give it a positive review because of how much less funny other inoffensive US sitcoms are. Really The Middle blows a lot of them out of the water imo. But I'm not gonna say that if you've not watched it you need to sit down right now and start from the pilot.

I used to think that maybe only the name was similar, but now you mention it, Brick is a lot like Dewie, and Axl is a little bit like Reece. Sue Heck is a great invention, a really lovable character, adeptly played by Eden Sher who has the potential to be a massive star, and someone that anyone would root for deeply.  They're making a spin-off about her and shopping around for networks that are interested in buying it. She's a better comic character than Malcolm by a long shot, but I guess Malcolm is the straight guy.

The rest of the cast are all very good too, it's Everybody Loves Raymond's wife and the janitor from Scrubs as the parents, so they're experienced and they all carry the script well. Sue Heck is a stand-out actress though.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

As well as starting to rewatch Malcolm in the Middle, this thread has prompted me to start watching The Middle for the first time. What do people think of The Middle in relation to MitM? Rip-off, homage, or spiritual successor? There are certainly too many similarities to be unintentional.

I've only seen two episodes and both times they were treating the daughter like shit, so no thanks.