Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits

[NoSleep]

Have you not seen what he's doing? Mandelson has taken over the party. Kieth is just an automaton that mandy controls. There won't be a Labour Party left, if this is allowed to continue. Stitching up candidates, driving away activists, trashing the brand, union jack optics, telling everyone the Tories are brilliant...

New leader now, lefty, probably loses the next election, but a new one after that can try again.

If the pusillanimous snowflake PLP left don't step up, they are pall-bearers.

Yes, we have to get rid of the source of this poison. Starmer's just an obedient lackey.

[Buelligan]

To do that, I think we'd need to start a public narrative about why an unelected and decidedly shady person is controlling the Party.  People need to question why Mandelson's been given this power over all of us, without so much as a vote being dropped and they need to question the motives and judgement of the leaders who are allowing it.  But how to start that conversation, outside of here?

[jobotic]

Peter Mandelson is 67 years old. Fingers crossed.

That's not old. He's also wealthy.

[Bernice]

And he's gay! Woop!

[Buelligan]

Does that mean he'll live longer?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

People need to question why Mandelson's been given this power over all of us, without so much as a vote being dropped

I am sure the right might say the same about Seamus Milne. Up to a point* I don't see unelected advisors are wrong myself, what next, do you want a vote on what books Starmer is allowed to read?

The fact Starmer has gone anywhere near Mandelson, and done so so soon, says a lot, none of it good. That's enough.

*the point being accountable use of public money

[Zetetic]

That's not old. He's also wealthy.

And looking very statesmanlike.

Get him a wife, and I think we have the next MP for Batley and Spen.

[jobotic]

The runner up to the next MP for Batley & Spen

[Havmannen]

Brexit chaos to come could seriously weaken the Tories by the next GE.

I wish this were true but I don't see it. It should have already weakened them but it hasn't. Because so many people are invested in this I don't think that large majorities will back down. Much more likely is a defensiveness to kick in and the shouting will just get louder. Also, they will put a lot of blame on Coronavirus. I don't think this is going to end any time soon. Cuts to education, of course, will only strengthen Tory support.

You know, sometimes I have felt so utterly lost.  This constant stream of depressing news about the state of the country. A lot of people ignore it or don't believe it and others say, "Yeah, but what you gonna do?" And I don't know is the answer. But it's reassuring that I can come back to this forum after a few years and still feel at home.

[Buelligan]

:)

I am sure the right might say the same about Seamus Milne. Up to a point* I don't see unelected advisors are wrong myself, what next, do you want a vote on what books Starmer is allowed to read?

The fact Starmer has gone anywhere near Mandelson, and done so so soon, says a lot, none of it good. That's enough.

*the point being accountable use of public money

I don't think it's as simple as what books can Starmer read? - it's about public perceptions.  Many people will question why someone so deeply involved in some of the darkest parts of Labour's modern history, so closely tied to some of the most reviled people in modern culture, so openly dodgy, was invited back and took control of the Hartlepool disaster, only to walk away and blame Rayner. 

People (many, most, people) don't give two figs about what Starmer reads, they don't know who Seamus Milne is or was, but they think Mandy's a proper cunt.  And they're right.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

They have found a way to make everything seem relatively normal, even during Covid, and that is to invent money. Where's the magic money tree? We're living in it. We voted for it. So the Tories are under no trouble at all unless something makes the wider economy go pop.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I don't think it's as simple as what books can Starmer read? - it's about public perceptions.  Many people will question why someone so deeply involved in some of the darkest parts of Labour's modern history, so closely tied to some of the most reviled people in modern culture, so openly dodgy, was invited back and took control of the Hartlepool disaster, only to walk away and blame Rayner.  People (many people) don't give two figs about what Starmer reads, they don't know who Seamus Milne is or was, but they think Mandy's a proper cunt.  And they're right.

I agree, similar to points I made. I just don't see what them not being elected has to do with anything. Any leader should choose freely whoever he thinks will help them, not have a choice imposed on them. There should be some accountability in terms of use of party funds and public money, of course.

[pancreas]

They have found a way to make everything seem relatively normal, even during Covid, and that is to invent money. Where's the magic money tree? We're living in it. We voted for it. So the Tories are under no trouble at all unless something makes the wider economy go pop.

The way they have found is to have no opposition whatsoever—well, except from small outcrops of new media and a few judicial reviews. Not from the mainstream media, and not certainly not from Her Majesty's Opposition.

[Buelligan]

I agree, similar to points I made. I just don't see what them not being elected has to do with anything. Any leader should choose freely whoever he thinks will help them, not have a choice imposed on them. There should be some accountability in terms of use of party funds and public money, of course.

It's very relevant to people, most of the people, just watching from the outside.  It plays like the lack of democracy in unions, that the tories love to harp on, plays.  It plays because there are elected people (some of whom I dislike, like Rayner, some of whom I love, like Crobs) being driven out by an unelected individual.  That's not spadism, that's taking over.  A horse of a completely different colour.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The way they have found is to have no opposition whatsoever—well, except from small outcrops of new media and a few judicial reviews. Not from the mainstream media, and not certainly not from Her Majesty's Opposition.

Even were the opposition or British media halfway functional, the Tories have smoothed over the worst recession since the 1700s by inventing money and indebting ourselves as we would do if we were in a world war, and there hasn't been much suggestion from Johnson that he is planning to use the next few years to start ramping up austerity either (possibily as it simply doesn't work).

With the media and useless opposition we have, the best bet for change is, unfortunately, an economic shock that the British government can't conceal by conjuring up money from thin air while the BofE keep interest rates at virtually zero, and the housing market in constant overdrive. A huge depression in demand and mass unemployment.

The laughably depressing thing is that it is now much more likely that the current government would use the levers of the state to rescue the situation than the cosplaying Blue Labourites in charge of the opposition.

[greenman]

I am sure the right might say the same about Seamus Milne. Up to a point* I don't see unelected advisors are wrong myself, what next, do you want a vote on what books Starmer is allowed to read?

The fact Starmer has gone anywhere near Mandelson, and done so so soon, says a lot, none of it good. That's enough.

*the point being accountable use of public money

He should be allowed to chose the advisors he likes but he should also be judged by it basically and in this case it clearly shows someone who betrayed the position he was elected on.

[greencalx]

Member email from Keith just now:

We're starting to turn around our fortunes in Scotland under the leadership of Anas Sarwar.

They lost 2 seats and 1% of the popular vote. What fucking planet do these people live on?

[pancreas]

He should be allowed to chose the advisors he likes but he should also be judged by it basically and in this case it clearly shows someone who betrayed the position he was elected on.

Quite. It's treachery. What you do with traitors is you attach a horse to each of their limbs and fire a gun from the middle.

[Paul Calf]

I wish this were true but I don't see it. It should have already weakened them but it hasn't. Because so many people are invested in this I don't think that large majorities will back down. Much more likely is a defensiveness to kick in and the shouting will just get louder. Also, they will put a lot of blame on Coronavirus. I don't think this is going to end any time soon. Cuts to education, of course, will only strengthen Tory support.

You know, sometimes I have felt so utterly lost.  This constant stream of depressing news about the state of the country. A lot of people ignore it or don't believe it and others say, "Yeah, but what you gonna do?" And I don't know is the answer. But it's reassuring that I can come back to this forum after a few years and still feel at home.

You have to bear in mind that border checks haven't even started yet: we're still operating under similar rules for EU cargo that we've been using for the last 30 years. Sooner or later[nb]currently planned for June, I think[/nb], that has to change and it's going to be horrific.

[Paul Calf]

Yes, phase-in over the next few months:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/delaying-brexit-border-checks

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

He should be allowed to chose the advisors he likes but he should also be judged by it basically and in this case it clearly shows someone who betrayed the position he was elected on.

Well yes, my first post on the advisor issues already states that about as clearly as it could.

[idunnosomename]

"Saudi Paul lost Hartlepool but we'll try him in another location"

https://twitter.com/TheIDSmiths/status/1392059485758402560

horrifying spectacle of Wes Streeting as Flea with his shirt off.

[jobotic]

Apparently Keith's private secretary has resigned after spreading rumours about Rayner's private life.



Not that any of it matters, we're being Orbanized/Erdoganned and these cunts are part of it.

[An tSaoi]

I just saw a tweet where someone blamed the results on "Long Corbyn".

[Pink Gregory]

I've just saw a tweet where someone blamed the results on "Long Corbyn".

His enormous schlong made the voters feel inadequate.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/politics/leeds-councillor-quits-labour-over-institutionalised-bullying-and-calls-for-committee-governance-system-3231510

This is interesting regarding the same old issues - accountability and democratic structure, showing that devolution itself doesn't fix the problem. Unless you fix the basis on which ordinary people hold their leaders accountable you can cascade power structures infinitely to no ultimately positive end effect.

[idunnosomename]

I think that term mightve been coined here

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/six-reasons-labour-lost-hartlepool-byelection_uk_6094fdd9e4b0b37f89476272?2zp

Of course none of the reasons have anything to do with the choices of the press and media. Politicians do things and the public react. That's all that happens

[Buelligan]

I think what's come out of the 6 May thing is clarity.  The Labour Party, currently, is being run to ensure that those running it keep the reins.  That is the primary, the only important, objective.  If achieving it means damaging the Party, so be it.

I dislike Rayner, as I've already said but, as I've already said, sacking her was about removing a possible challenger.  It was about power and retention of power.  Remember the Peoples' Vote.

And what politician working for party interests constantly reminds the electorate of, what they consider to be, a giant fail.  Why constantly talk about Corbyn if Corbyn was the nadir? 

Why not move on, show the country what Labour can now do? 

We know why, they are not there to do anything other than root out any opposition to their own power within the party and destroy the left, permanently. 

Country, people, be buggered.

[Mr_Simnock]

They have found a way to make everything seem relatively normal, even during Covid, and that is to invent money. Where's the magic money tree? We're living in it. We voted for it. So the Tories are under no trouble at all unless something makes the wider economy go pop.

I read that with the voice of Ian Curtis and images of stock 1970's film of bank buildings and politicians in my head.

[Paul Calf]

I read that with the voice of Ian Curtis and images of stock 1970's film of bank buildings and politicians in my head.

To the centre of the city where the roads meet waiting for YOU.