Author Topic: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits  (Read 61611 times)

Old Nehamkin

  • You won, Jane.
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2021, 10:33:24 AM »
There seems to be a trend amongst centrists now that their golden boy is a busted flush that Starmer is just a continuation of the decline of Labour under Corbyn. Rather than it being a completely different era and an attempt to distance itself from 2015 to 2019. Expect JOB to have a big rant about "What happened to Labour? First Corbyn, now this"

Yes, I've noticed this too. Before now the orthodox centrist line has always been that the Corbyn era was a tragic misstep which stymied what would otherwise have been an open goal for the sensible, grown-up elements of the party to blow the Tories out of the water. Now a switch seems to have been flicked and the new narrative is that the party just never recovered its mojo after the Blair years and that Brown, Milliband, Corbyn and Starmer are all just symptoms of an absence of the vaguely-defined strategic nouse and hard-headed ruthlessness that is apparently necessary to win over a public who are, of course, incurably inclined towards conservatism and simply don't know what's good for them.

Looking forward to another generation of Tory rule. Thanks Labour.

The Tories can't hold forever and I have to assume that some sort of new major oppositional force will have to emerge to fill the void that Labour seems set on leaving. Whether that takes the form of a genuinely left-wing/social-democratic party or alliance of some kind, or it's just the lib dems with a new shiny faux-progressive coat of paint, or indeed some nightmare far-right vehicle led by Farage or one of his acolytes, I've got no idea. 

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2021, 10:40:21 AM »
The Tories can't hold forever

They will when Scotland leaves.

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2021, 10:43:07 AM »
If the housing market proves to a be a bubble, that might shift the Tories.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2021, 10:45:19 AM »
Imagine what would happen if the BTL thing popped.  Social housing, fair rents, imagine the scenes!

Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2021, 10:50:17 AM »

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2021, 10:51:19 AM »
If the housing market proves to a be a bubble, that might shift the Tories.

But think about all the other things the Tories represent and embody. Snobbery, greed, lack of empathy, racism, the flag, banter, being a character, our brave boys, winding up the wokes, sticking it to the PC brigade, do what you like and sod the rest, I'm alright Jack, send them back, keep them out, and whingeing about Brussels. What could be more appealing to the English psyche?

The voters have already destroyed their exports, imports, international reputation, ability to live abroad, and society in general. Nothing could turn them now.

Old Nehamkin

  • You won, Jane.
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2021, 10:57:36 AM »
They will when Scotland leaves.

The idea of non-Tory UK governments being necessarily contingent on Scottish votes is, historically, a bit of a myth.

To be clear though, when I say "the Tories can't hold" I'm not talking about the imminent banishment of conservative ideology from these shores or anything. As I said above I remain hopeful for the emergence of some meaningful social-democratic electoral movement, but really I think that in all likelihood the next government will either be some configuration of milquetoast neoliberal caretakers who do nothing at all to reverse the damage of Tory rule, or they'll be some unhinged band of far-right populists from the Farage school. But I don't think the UK has reached one-party state territory quite yet and I don't really believe that the current iteration of the Tories will still be in power a decade from now. (disclaimer - I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about and you can feel free to quote this and call me a fanny 10 years from now if applicable.)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 11:15:18 AM by Old Nehamkin »

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2021, 10:59:14 AM »
I know quite a few Tory voters on benefits.

Also disabled people are on benefits - are we not wanted in the Labour Party?

idunnosomename

  • PIZZA BEAN
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2021, 11:46:08 AM »
Would love to see the metropolitan elite of CaB show their disdain for these working class men who have the termerity to think for themselves rejecting woke labour.

https://twitter.com/resophonick/status/1391288617449005058?s=19

"Labour's just wrecked it. The hospital. We haven't even got a cell. Where we can lock someone up for the night. We haven't got a court.. where we can take someone to court"

Bet Alex watches this with a big fucking grin on his face

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2021, 11:52:19 AM »
BBC reporter doesn't challenge them about how voting for an MP from the party in charge for the past 11 years will help get their hospital, cell or court back.


Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2021, 11:59:06 AM »
Regarding the hospital:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tees/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8747000/8747821.stm



In March 2010, the then Health Secretary Andy Burnham travelled to Hartlepool to formally announce the £460m was available for Wynyard.

"It will build brand new state of the art facilities and will give the people here the very best the NHS can offer", he said.

Work was due to start on the new hospital in 2012, with the first patients expected to be admitted in 2015.

Just three months after Andy Burnham's announcement, the Coalition government's Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, announced the new hospital at Wynyard was unaffordable and would be scrapped as part of a wider package of cuts totalling £2bn.

He accused the government of making "commitments it knew the next government could not fulfil".

Hartlepool MP Iain Wright says he expects Hartlepool's hospital to close in the near future and the transfer of all services to North Tees.

"The government has not offered any alternative solutions - closure (of Hartlepool hospital) is a big risk, and the people of Hartlepool deserve better than this."

idunnosomename

  • PIZZA BEAN
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2021, 12:04:14 PM »
well it does cut off but who knows.

these two men clearly are pigshit thick but still feel sorry for them how they're lied to. you have the endlessly nasty Sun treated as a viable news outlet by the supposedly sensible BBC. Tom Newton Dunn on every day until he moves to Times Radio.

All the BBC's political analysis conveniently leaves out the press as a factor completely. As if voters like this "rejected Corbyn": they rejected the media's presentation of Corbyn. No politician is presented a priori to the population. They either know them from the front pages or they've no idea who they are. You won't fix this country until you stop having a bunch of loss-leader propaganda sheets owned by a small group of billionaires that are consistently treated credulously by the national state broadcaster.

Remember in 2019 when Newton Dunn accidentally posted a Labour expose that was all sourced from white nationalist websites and quickly deleted the story? Did the BBC report it at all? Pretty sure this was all that was ever published in the mainstream press: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/09/sun-publish-far-right-conspiracy-theory-labour

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2021, 12:09:21 PM »
The BBC always give the shit on the front pages of the newspapers free advertising with their look at "what tommorow's papers say", without looking at any of the stories are true or putting them into context. Considering most of the papers featured will be right-wing it doesn't feel very balanced and scrapping this would be a start.

Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2021, 12:12:36 PM »
I know quite a few Tory voters on benefits.

Also disabled people are on benefits - are we not wanted in the Labour Party?
Which is pretty ironic given how many Tories hate people who use benefits.

The S*n should never be considered a reliable news source. How quickly people forget Hillsborough - but then a lot of people do genuinely believe Liverpool fans were robbing and pissing on the dead. Confirmation bias, I guess.

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2021, 12:22:43 PM »
Talking of unreliable news sources, here's Andrew Rawnsley.

The least persuasive diagnosis of why the party has suffered some bitter disappointments is that offered by visitors from cloud-Corbyn-land who demand a return to the glorious days of the last leader.

...

There are some issues that are more amenable to an immediate fix. Labour MPs are expecting a reshuffle of the shadow cabinet. There are some resourceful and dynamic performers on Labour’s frontbench such as Jonathan Ashworth, David Lammy and Rachel Reeves. There are too many others who are no more than reactive or, worse, passive.

pancreas

  • The islets of Langerhans are the very best islets
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2021, 12:29:13 PM »
It's not worth the brain cancer

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2021, 12:30:37 PM »
lol the url says 'keir srarmer'

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2021, 12:36:58 PM »
Quote
Results from London, Manchester and elsewhere confirm that Labour can count on younger, more diverse and more socially liberal voters, especially graduates living in the university towns and big cities of England.

Surely untrue given how the London Mayoral election was much closer than expected with a terrible Tory candidate.

So the Tories benefited from a "vaccine bounce" in 2021 but not a Brexit bounce in 2019? Just total Stammer apologist bullshit from Rawnsley. 

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2021, 12:38:39 PM »
Quote from: Rawnsley
While he looks safe in his job*, the former prosecutor should nevertheless ask some tough questions of himself. In the year and a bit since he took over, he has emphasised “new leadership”. That’s been successful**. The voters have got that. He is regarded as a potential prime minister*** in a way Jeremy Corbyn could never hope to be.



*hmm...
**well...
***lol at The Guardian Offices maybe

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2021, 12:38:50 PM »
The Observer's Chief Political Commentator's reflections on Welsh Labour's relative success in full:
"Wales was brighter."

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2021, 12:39:25 PM »
Talking of unreliable news sources, here's Andrew Rawnsley.

An impressively ludicrous take.

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2021, 12:40:28 PM »
Surely untrue given how the London Mayoral election was much closer than expected with a terrible Tory candidate.

I wonder how many Labour Londoners people like me who decided not to vote forgot that they were also not going to be able to vote for the London Mayor.

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2021, 12:40:55 PM »
On hospitals and nonsense, I note that the Welsh Labour candidate for the Rhondda - who has displaced Leanne Wood - spent their acceptance speech emphasising how they were going to fight for the Royal Glamorgan's A&E department. (Presumably against the Welsh Labour government and NHS Wales.)

idunnosomename

  • PIZZA BEAN
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2021, 12:49:54 PM »
Corbyn will bankrupt the state with his reckless overspending!!!

Labour doesn't spend money on hospitals!!!

Look at us, pretend not to understand why the prime minster is Boris Johnson!!!

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2021, 01:03:26 PM »
Quote
Results from London, Manchester and elsewhere confirm that Labour can count on younger, more diverse and more socially liberal voters, especially graduates living in the university towns and big cities of England.

Again Labour fails to learn from the mistakes of the past. I don’t think they can “count on” any part of the electorate now, having systematically pissed all of them off!

Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2021, 01:12:52 PM »
BBC reporter doesn't challenge them about how voting for an MP from the party in charge for the past 11 years will help get their hospital, cell or court back.

The downgrading of Hartlepool hospital was signed and sealed by the Labour government. In the dying days of that government there were proposals for a new super hospital outside of the town, but very few people believed this would ever happen given Labour wasn't going to win the 2010 election.

There is still huge anger about this in the town. This is why it was particularly idiotic for Labour to parachute a candidate in and lead the local campaign on NHS issues, given they were the proponents of the hospital closure and their candidate was involved in that closure process.

If their one-man shortlist had included somebody actually from the town, or even consulted with them, then this issue would have probably been pointed out. They would also have probably pointed out the stupidity of parachuting in an arch-remainer as well.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2021, 01:16:56 PM »
Again Labour fails to learn from the mistakes of the past. I don’t think they can “count on” any part of the electorate now, having systematically pissed all of them off!

It's really bizarre.  People openly considering whether Starmer was placed there intentionally to destroy Labour - I mean, the fact that people are even considering it illustrates the level of damage his tenure has wrought.  At least, under He Who Shall Not Be Named's rule, it was only the red tories who were cheesed off.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2021, 01:20:23 PM »
The idea of non-Tory UK governments being necessarily contingent on Scottish votes is, historically, a bit of a myth.

To be clear though, when I say "the Tories can't hold" I'm not talking about the imminent banishment of conservative ideology from these shores or anything. As I said above I remain hopeful for the emergence of some meaningful social-democratic electoral movement, but really I think that in all likelihood the next government will either be some configuration of milquetoast neoliberal caretakers who do nothing at all to reverse the damage of Tory rule, or they'll be some unhinged band of far-right populists from the Farage school. But I don't think the UK has reached one-party state territory quite yet and I don't really believe that the current iteration of the Tories will still be in power a decade from now. (disclaimer - I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about and you can feel free to quote this and call me a fanny 10 years from now if applicable.)


Fanny ;)

pigamus

  • Member
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Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2021, 01:23:41 PM »
I think they will be in power ten years from now because the public doesn’t seem to give a fuck what they do, and in fact rewards them for it.

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party - We are not the party of people on benefits
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2021, 01:25:27 PM »
Regarding the hospital:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tees/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8747000/8747821.stm



In March 2010, the then Health Secretary Andy Burnham travelled to Hartlepool to formally announce the £460m was available for Wynyard.

"It will build brand new state of the art facilities and will give the people here the very best the NHS can offer", he said.

Work was due to start on the new hospital in 2012, with the first patients expected to be admitted in 2015.

Just three months after Andy Burnham's announcement, the Coalition government's Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, announced the new hospital at Wynyard was unaffordable and would be scrapped as part of a wider package of cuts totalling £2bn.

He accused the government of making "commitments it knew the next government could not fulfil".

Hartlepool MP Iain Wright says he expects Hartlepool's hospital to close in the near future and the transfer of all services to North Tees.

"The government has not offered any alternative solutions - closure (of Hartlepool hospital) is a big risk, and the people of Hartlepool deserve better than this."

Send that to Chris Mason and tell him to present these fact to the two gentlemen again and air the result on BBC 6 o'clock with a FULL FUCKING APOLOGY TO ME

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