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March 28, 2024, 11:15:18 AM

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Democracy but only for some

Started by Buelligan, May 10, 2021, 12:12:03 PM

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Buelligan

Just browsing about and saw that UK citizens will need photo ID to vote in future elections, announced in the Queen's Speech today as something that will be enshrined into law during the next parliament.  Fuck me.  Never thought I'd see the day.

Quote from: Aaron Bastani@AaronBastani"Voters will need photo ID for general elections"

Unless passports and driving licences become free this is entirely indefensible. Democracies don't have economic impediments for voting.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

bgmnts

Yeah, unless they provide everyone with a voter photo ID card this is pure anti-democracy.

I'm stunned.

Paul Calf

I'm not sure how anyone who's paying attention can be shocked by this. Next: redrawing the boundaries, completing the gerrymander started by the 2010 coalition.

I'll be surprised if there's another truly competitive General Election in my lifetime.

Buelligan

Quote from: bgmnts on May 10, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Yeah, unless they provide everyone with a voter photo ID card this is pure anti-democracy.

I'm stunned.

And even if they do, it obliges anyone who wishes to vote to supply them with a photograph.  Many people are unhappy about the facial recognition cameras being used, now people are being forced to supply the government with images of themselves, which, I assume will be retained, if they wish to participate democratically. 

This isn't even as small as gerrymandering national elections, this is about building up a database covering every person in the country and denying a voice to anyone who objects.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251508-is-police-use-of-face-recognition-now-illegal-in-the-uk/

jobotic

I can see an abstention coming up.


Yes this is hardly a surprise. Expect people who have campaigned for anyone or anything other than the Tories and Brexit to be barred from voting soon, on the basis that they are politically biased.

Butchers Blind

This will happen with the government counting on people's apathy.

frajer

Just roll out the Mega-Cities and Judges and be fucking done with it.

Pranet

Yeah this has been coming for a while. Fuckers. I also see they are planning to change the system of the majoral elections to first past the past the post. You won't believe it it is quite the co-incidence- this system tends to increase the chances of tory candidates.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on May 10, 2021, 12:18:42 PM
And even if they do, it obliges anyone who wishes to vote to supply them with a photograph.  Many people are unhappy about the facial recognition cameras being used, now people are being forced to supply the government with images of themselves, which, I assume will be retained, if they wish to participate democratically. 

This isn't even as small as gerrymandering national elections, this is about building up a database covering every person in the country and denying a voice to anyone who objects.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251508-is-police-use-of-face-recognition-now-illegal-in-the-uk/

Yes, although it goes beyond facial recognition I think, it's the same database that has been touted as the solution to the ID card scheme in the 2000's,resurfaced as a means to verify age for adult websites in the 2010's and a vaccine passport in the 2020's; it's all the thin end of the wedge for something more sinister.

Many people already have submitted mugshots for passports/driving licences. These could easily be scraped for a face recognition system (yes poorer people don't have these) but I think there's an element of trying to tie together these silos into a unified form of id that follows us around across various services. Once that's in place scope can creep, e.g. To sign up to twitter and Facebook to 'stop anonymous abuse', and then, because they place widgets in lots of web pages, they can follow you around the Web even if other sites don't ask for ID.

Bleeding Kansas

Surely the government should be focusing on the recovery and getting good trade deals. We know from recent calls for investigations into donations and an inquiry into the handling of the pandemic that it is impossible to do more than 2 things at once. I would have thought that there was simply no capacity for the government to divert resources to voting reform.

Buelligan

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on May 10, 2021, 12:41:51 PM
Yes, although it goes beyond facial recognition I think, it's the same database that has been touted as the solution to the ID card scheme in the 2000's,resurfaced as a means to verify age for adult websites in the 2010's and a vaccine passport in the 2020's; it's all the thin end of the wedge for something more sinister.

Many people already have submitted mugshots for passports/driving licences. These could easily be scraped for a face recognition system (yes poorer people don't have these) but I think there's an element of trying to tie together these silos into a unified form of id that follows us around across various services. Once that's in place scope can creep, e.g. To sign up to twitter and Facebook to 'stop anonymous abuse', and then, because they place widgets in lots of web pages, they can follow you around the Web even if other sites don't ask for ID.

I agree, it's absolutely sinister.  My objection is not that I'm an international criminal or terrorist but I like to keep that option open in the event that government goes rogue - which far more likely as me going rogue myself. 

Once people allow this sort of device for controlling people to exist, it will be too late to stop evil people from using it in evil ways.  It's not as if evil people don't exist or that time for them to do evil is finite.  I'm not on FB or google and I even used a burner to open my email account, I keep my life private because I choose to.

Ferris

Fucking hell.

How does this work for postal votes then?

robhug

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on May 10, 2021, 01:15:37 PM
Fucking hell.

How does this work for postal votes then?

you have to take your postal vote and ID to the polling station on the day

Bernice


Blumf

Quote from: Buelligan on May 10, 2021, 12:18:42 PM
now people are being forced to supply the government with images of themselves, which, I assume will be retained, if they wish to participate democratically. 

Mrs Blumf had to update her driving licence recently (no more EU flag, Union Jack instead, Brexit!), they just grabbed her passport photo from the database. a) nice and creepy, b) the passport photo is almost as old as her old licence photo, so what is point!?

Buelligan

It's only the bones that count.  That's what they're working towards.

jobotic

Do I have to show them which box I ticked, just to make sure I've done it correctly? There may have once been a case of someone ticking the wrong box, you see.

Ferris

Quote from: Blumf on May 10, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Mrs Blumf had to update her driving licence recently (no more EU flag, Union Jack instead, Brexit!), they just grabbed her passport photo from the database. a) nice and creepy, b) the passport photo is almost as old as her old licence photo, so what is point!?

Yeah that is a bit sinister, but saves you a fiver at the photo kiosk.

Dr Rock

Look at the people in Coronation Street or Albert Square. I bet hardly any of them have passports, and only a few can drive. Don't know about Emmerdale.

Buelligan

The sooner you put all these cunts to the sword, the happier you'll all feel.  Just saying.

Fambo Number Mive

BBC News ignoring this story but has capacity to report on the Queen having a Zoom call where she remembered becoming the first young person in the Commonwealth to receive a junior lifesaving award from the Royal Life Saving Society.


GoblinAhFuckScary

lol can guarantee if you need universal credit you can't afford a passport. been needing to update mine for years and never had like 80 quid to spare

just unremittingly bleak

JamesTC

Oh you think poor people are too stupid to get photo ID? Racists the lot of you.

Fambo Number Mive

I imagine a sector of society who have passports and/or driving licences will support this and then be the ones kicking off loudest when they forget to bring their passport/driving licence to the polling station on the day and don't want the rules that they are happy to apply to others to apply to them. They've got a three bedroom house, own their own business and created six jobs, it's not fair waahhh. Cue angry post on Mumsnet and a letter to the Guardian.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on May 10, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
I agree, it's absolutely sinister.  My objection is not that I'm an international criminal or terrorist but I like to keep that option open in the event that government goes rogue - which far more likely as me going rogue myself. 

Once people allow this sort of device for controlling people to exist, it will be too late to stop evil people from using it in evil ways.  It's not as if evil people don't exist or that time for them to do evil is finite.  I'm not on FB or google and I even used a burner to open my email account, I keep my life private because I choose to.

Yeah I usually point out it's not about protecting some no-mark like me, it's about protecting the next civil rights activist, unions, protest groups, whistle blowers and journalists then pivot to some tenuous waffle about thatcher tapli g miner's phones :)

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 10, 2021, 02:03:06 PM
I imagine a sector of society who have passports and/or driving licences will support this and then be the ones kicking off loudest when they forget to bring their passport/driving licence to the polling station on the day and don't want the rules that they are happy to apply to others to apply to them. They've got a three bedroom house, own their own business and created six jobs, it's not fair waahhh. Cue angry post on Mumsnet and a letter to the Guardian.

Surely if that is the case then this is good news for Labour?

The bill will have to be created and consulted on so let's see what happens; a movement could be brought around getting voter IDs to people and improving turnout at the same time.  Surely there will be laws against pricing people out of voting so I imagine there will have to be a system of getting voter IDs to those that can't afford it. 

Dr Rock

A quick check shows one in four of the electorate don't have photo ID.

TrenterPercenter

QuoteThe government has previously said people would be able to apply for a voting ID card from their local council, although this would have to be done before polling day. Early trials in some areas led to hundreds of voters being turned away.

So it would best to focus efforts here; behaviour dictates that if you can get someone applying for a voting ID card then they are going to be more likely to then go and vote.  Campaign groups could be set up to increase uptake and improve turnout; also leads to some potential gaming of  in constituencies i.e. increasing voter ID pushes in certain communities

jobotic

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on May 10, 2021, 02:20:25 PM
Surely if that is the case then this is good news for Labour?

The bill will have to be created and consulted on so let's see what happens; a movement could be brought around getting voter IDs to people and improving turnout at the same time.  Surely there will be laws against pricing people out of voting so I imagine there will have to be a system of getting voter IDs to those that can't afford it.

What? Why do you have any faith in that happening? That would defeat the purpose of this change in law.

Like a workers' brexit.

Dr Rock

I reckon they won't go through with it, but it will get the phantom menace of voter fraud helping Labour get more traction.