Author Topic: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?  (Read 9174 times)

DJ Bob Hoskins

  • Going mental in a dustbin
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #210 on: May 23, 2021, 11:12:29 PM »
I’m no Beck aficionado by any stretch, and I hear what y’all are saying (I think Sea Change is definitely overrated compared to earlier works) but I still think he deserves credit for constantly changing things up with each album. I loved The Information and Modern Guilt, partly because they sound very different from each other and yet don’t really sound like they could have been made by anybody else.

Likewise I think Dreams was one of the more inventive and cleverly-produced pop singles of recent years, and part of the reason I like it so much is I can’t quite reconcile  that it’s by the same guy who wrote Loser.

I’ve always thought of him as being similar to Prince (not in the same league, I should add, lest I’m labelled a heretic), in the sense that I couldn’t be arsed with most of their later output but always had respect for the ability to keep on reinventing themselves and following their own path. as well as remaining a kick-ass live act.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #211 on: May 23, 2021, 11:16:20 PM »
Wasn't he a Scientologist from birth and has now left?

For what it's worth, I don't think he's made a decent album since Midnite Vultures - which, admittedly, was fucking great.

Yeah you're right, I was just trying to make a quip.

Midnite Vultures was definitely the end of the line for Classic Beck. I enjoy some later stuff fine, but maybe only because my expectations are now so low.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #212 on: May 23, 2021, 11:18:59 PM »
Still plenty of good stuff on the new* albums, they just feel a bit less consistent to me overall in terms of quality.

*anything this century

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #213 on: May 24, 2021, 09:44:53 AM »
The Manics, though? Damn straight. I only go for the old stuff and Futurology and maybe Lifeblood and a couple of songs off This Is My Truth.
I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

 Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #214 on: May 24, 2021, 02:35:05 PM »
Yeah, the set lists are pretty static these days, aren't they? It was great to see Solitude Sometimes Is and Sleepflower added for the This is My Truth tour, they do like to throw in a surprise or two, but they're just greatest hits sets for the most part these days. I'd be surprised if the entire Ultra Vivid Lament tour has any 2001-2018 material other than Your Love Alone, Walk Me to the Bridge, International Blue and one surprise track, probably something from Know Your Enemy as they're supposedly doing a 20th anniversary reissue of that this year.
They're obviously aware that a sizeable portion of their fanbase lost a lot if interest around the turn of the century, so '90s-heavy set lists make some sense, but given that, other than Lifeblood, their 21st century albums have charted as well as and often better than their first few, they obviously also have a lot of dedicated fans who keep up with everything they do. It's obvious from reading stuff on Forever Delayed that there are a lot of people who'd rather see them do Peeled Apples or Dead Martyrs or 1985 or 30 Year War or Let's Go to War instead of You Stole the Sun or Motorcycle Emptiness for the 50th time.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #215 on: May 24, 2021, 03:35:52 PM »
I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

 Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.
I was going to see them on the This Is My Truth tour but missed the gig due to personal circumstances. Tbh I was only really going cos my mates were.

I got a ticket for their Manchester gig in October and I'm sure my brother will as well, because however much we bitch about the Manics' new stuff, we both know we'll end up going to see them, if only for the first four albums and the odd curveball (and some of the later stuff too). Which is kind of sad, really.

I seem to remember Futurology came out near the time of the Holy Bible tour because in the second half, they did a few songs from it. Maybe that was why they didn't properly tour it.

ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #216 on: May 24, 2021, 08:35:53 PM »
I used to go see Ray Davies a lot in the '00s, in a period when he had released two relatively well-recieved solo LPs. At most he'd play one or two of the new songs and the rest was all Kinks '60s/early '70s chestnuts.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #217 on: May 25, 2021, 11:31:42 AM »
ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.
I sadly couldn't make to the initial tour they did where they played the whole album, as the sole Welsh date was in Llandudno, rather than the usual Cardiff/Newport venues, but I saw them at Newport Centre the following year touring PFAYM, and while Peeled Apples was quickly dropped from the set early on (as was Sleepflower), they still did Jackie Collins Existential Question Time. That's the only time.



non capisco

  • Life just passed and flashed right through me
    • https://twitter.com/IsThisRoss
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #218 on: May 25, 2021, 12:47:11 PM »
Peeled Apples is such an (I'm guessing unconscious) melodic steal from Heaven 17's 'Temptation' I wonder if they dropped it out of embarrassment after someone told them.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #219 on: May 29, 2021, 12:12:59 PM »
Jimmy Page seemingly gave up seriously making music the day John Bonham died and just became the curator of Led Zeppelin's work. Yes, there have been a few albums, but nothing of the type of career that Plant has built for himself.

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #220 on: May 29, 2021, 07:55:21 PM »
Sometimes legacy artists pander to their fanbase and make the album they believe those people want to hear. It's often a no-win situation because they are either accused of repeating themselves or not as good as they used to be. Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art but they're forever held to ransom by the past.

 If Elvis Costello's retro-sounding 2018 album, Look Now was released in 1983, I reckon it would be hailed as one of his best, but it's largely dismissed because he's a man in his sixties and not considered relevant. A remark usually made by middle-aged men.

the science eel

  • married to Su Pollard for 8 years
    • PRELUDIN - where goons don't go
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #221 on: May 29, 2021, 11:27:16 PM »
aye?

I might give it a go then

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #222 on: May 30, 2021, 01:36:01 AM »
aye?

I might give it a go then

It's proper early 80s old school Costello pop. Hope you enjoy it, eel.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #223 on: May 30, 2021, 02:16:45 AM »
Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art


I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

chveik

  • OPEN THE PUBS BOYS
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #224 on: May 30, 2021, 03:04:00 AM »
his album with the roots was embarrassing and proper shite

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #225 on: May 30, 2021, 02:27:59 PM »
When I was first listening to Elvis Costello's back catalogue whenever a song I hadn't noticed before caught my attention, it would proper sink its hook in and I'd be listening to it multiple times a day for a week.

Now I hear his new records sometimes and while I'm listening I'm thinking "old bags still got it, this could be off Imperial Bedroom/Blood and Chocolate!" but as soon as its done its in one ear and out the other. I don't know if its just me. Those records definitely sound good tho.

daf

  • All Done by Kindness
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #226 on: May 30, 2021, 02:42:49 PM »
I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

I lost interest as soon as Costello learned how to read music and sing "properly". I think Sting also went completely off the boil due to this.

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #227 on: May 30, 2021, 04:54:03 PM »
I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

Not in all cases, surely? I think long running artists definitely become more adept musicians on stage even if they don’t leap about as much as they once did and use an autocue. Mind you, sound and vision from a technical aspect has immeasurably improved the live experience.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #228 on: May 30, 2021, 05:22:06 PM »
Sure, in a live context possibly (although even there it adds a veneer of lifelessness), but I was talking about creating new material.

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #229 on: May 30, 2021, 11:32:02 PM »
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #230 on: May 31, 2021, 12:00:00 AM »
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Or fat-headed or curdled?

the science eel

  • married to Su Pollard for 8 years
    • PRELUDIN - where goons don't go
Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #231 on: May 31, 2021, 12:25:21 AM »
I'd be happy to pour red-hot sand down Billy Bragg's back after I'd thrown him into a freezing-cold lake just after setting fire to his head, just to see if that sharpens his artistic faculties

Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
« Reply #232 on: May 31, 2021, 02:47:42 PM »
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Billy Joel too

Tags: