Your heroes, are they PAST IT?

[DJ Bob Hoskins]

I'm no Beck aficionado by any stretch, and I hear what y'all are saying (I think Sea Change is definitely overrated compared to earlier works) but I still think he deserves credit for constantly changing things up with each album. I loved The Information and Modern Guilt, partly because they sound very different from each other and yet don't really sound like they could have been made by anybody else.

Likewise I think Dreams was one of the more inventive and cleverly-produced pop singles of recent years, and part of the reason I like it so much is I can't quite reconcile  that it's by the same guy who wrote Loser.

I've always thought of him as being similar to Prince (not in the same league, I should add, lest I'm labelled a heretic), in the sense that I couldn't be arsed with most of their later output but always had respect for the ability to keep on reinventing themselves and following their own path. as well as remaining a kick-ass live act.

[sutin]

Wasn't he a Scientologist from birth and has now left?

For what it's worth, I don't think he's made a decent album since Midnite Vultures - which, admittedly, was fucking great.

Yeah you're right, I was just trying to make a quip.

Midnite Vultures was definitely the end of the line for Classic Beck. I enjoy some later stuff fine, but maybe only because my expectations are now so low.

[DrGreggles]

Still plenty of good stuff on the new* albums, they just feel a bit less consistent to me overall in terms of quality.

_{*anything this century}

[Spiteface]

The Manics, though? Damn straight. I only go for the old stuff and Futurology and maybe Lifeblood and a couple of songs off This Is My Truth.

I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.

[purlieu]

Yeah, the set lists are pretty static these days, aren't they? It was great to see Solitude Sometimes Is and Sleepflower added for the This is My Truth tour, they do like to throw in a surprise or two, but they're just greatest hits sets for the most part these days. I'd be surprised if the entire Ultra Vivid Lament tour has any 2001-2018 material other than Your Love Alone, Walk Me to the Bridge, International Blue and one surprise track, probably something from Know Your Enemy as they're supposedly doing a 20th anniversary reissue of that this year.
They're obviously aware that a sizeable portion of their fanbase lost a lot if interest around the turn of the century, so '90s-heavy set lists make some sense, but given that, other than Lifeblood, their 21st century albums have charted as well as and often better than their first few, they obviously also have a lot of dedicated fans who keep up with everything they do. It's obvious from reading stuff on Forever Delayed that there are a lot of people who'd rather see them do Peeled Apples or Dead Martyrs or 1985 or 30 Year War or Let's Go to War instead of You Stole the Sun or Motorcycle Emptiness for the 50th time.

[Kankurette]

I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.

I was going to see them on the This Is My Truth tour but missed the gig due to personal circumstances. Tbh I was only really going cos my mates were.

I got a ticket for their Manchester gig in October and I'm sure my brother will as well, because however much we bitch about the Manics' new stuff, we both know we'll end up going to see them, if only for the first four albums and the odd curveball (and some of the later stuff too). Which is kind of sad, really.

I seem to remember Futurology came out near the time of the Holy Bible tour because in the second half, they did a few songs from it. Maybe that was why they didn't properly tour it.

ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.

[sutin]

I used to go see Ray Davies a lot in the '00s, in a period when he had released two relatively well-recieved solo LPs. At most he'd play one or two of the new songs and the rest was all Kinks '60s/early '70s chestnuts.

[Spiteface]

ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.

I sadly couldn't make to the initial tour they did where they played the whole album, as the sole Welsh date was in Llandudno, rather than the usual Cardiff/Newport venues, but I saw them at Newport Centre the following year touring PFAYM, and while Peeled Apples was quickly dropped from the set early on (as was Sleepflower), they still did Jackie Collins Existential Question Time. That's the only time.

[non capisco]

Peeled Apples is such an (I'm guessing unconscious) melodic steal from Heaven 17's 'Temptation' I wonder if they dropped it out of embarrassment after someone told them.

[Nice Relaxing Poo]

Jimmy Page seemingly gave up seriously making music the day John Bonham died and just became the curator of Led Zeppelin's work. Yes, there have been a few albums, but nothing of the type of career that Plant has built for himself.

[Brundle-Fly]

Sometimes legacy artists pander to their fanbase and make the album they believe those people want to hear. It's often a no-win situation because they are either accused of repeating themselves or not as good as they used to be. Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art but they're forever held to ransom by the past.

If Elvis Costello's retro-sounding 2018 album, Look Now was released in 1983, I reckon it would be hailed as one of his best, but it's largely dismissed because he's a man in his sixties and not considered relevant. A remark usually made by middle-aged men.

[the science eel]

aye?

I might give it a go then

[Brundle-Fly]

aye?

I might give it a go then

It's proper early 80s old school Costello pop. Hope you enjoy it, eel.

[jamiefairlie]

Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art

I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

[chveik]

his album with the roots was embarrassing and proper shite

[Video Game Fan 2000]

When I was first listening to Elvis Costello's back catalogue whenever a song I hadn't noticed before caught my attention, it would proper sink its hook in and I'd be listening to it multiple times a day for a week.

Now I hear his new records sometimes and while I'm listening I'm thinking "old bags still got it, this could be off Imperial Bedroom/Blood and Chocolate!" but as soon as its done its in one ear and out the other. I don't know if its just me. Those records definitely sound good tho.

[daf]

I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

I lost interest as soon as Costello learned how to read music and sing "properly". I think Sting also went completely off the boil due to this.

[Brundle-Fly]

I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

Not in all cases, surely? I think long running artists definitely become more adept musicians on stage even if they don't leap about as much as they once did and use an autocue. Mind you, sound and vision from a technical aspect has immeasurably improved the live experience.

[jamiefairlie]

Sure, in a live context possibly (although even there it adds a veneer of lifelessness), but I was talking about creating new material.

[The Culture Bunker]

I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

[Brundle-Fly]

I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Or fat-headed or curdled?

[the science eel]

I'd be happy to pour red-hot sand down Billy Bragg's back after I'd thrown him into a freezing-cold lake just after setting fire to his head, just to see if that sharpens his artistic faculties

[pupshaw]

I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Billy Joel too

[TheMonk]

If there are any McCartney fans here it appears that the last night of his tour which occurred a few hours ago was broadcast live on Disney Plus in Brazil and is on YouTube. He sounds a bit like it's the last night of the tour, mind you. Starts at 22:00 in.
https://youtu.be/qxer-88ZhaM?si=ff7or5dbXieJQr55

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Someone put up a clip of Bryan Ferry, singing on Roxy Music's fiftieth anniversary tour.  It was a bit tragic.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I cried watching Harry Dean Stanton sing in Spanish in the Film Lucky and he died shortly after.

So yeah.

[turnstyle]

Radiohead - Been listening to them for close on 30 years, and they will forever be my band. I still think they're putting out amazing music, I just wish there was more of it. Weirdly, The Smile leave me pretty cold, which is slightly frustrating as they're relatively prolific by comparison.

The Mountain Goats - Yer man Ferris already mentioned them. Personally I find their last few albums generally wash over me and don't leave much impression these days. I think this is just a personal thing though. With the goats it feels like diminishing returns to a degree. For me they peaked with Tallahassee and the following few albums. At that time I was obsessed with them and thought they could do no wrong. Now though, a new album feels a bit like season 12 of a TV show you used to be really into.

Having said that, I still think Darnielle is a GBOL.

[Sebastian Cobb]

PP Arnold's in her 70's now but still has a pretty good voice. Saw her a few years ago and she's still got it.

I watched the Blondie glasto stuff and wasn't all that impressed, Debbie Harry's voice wasn't great but I think they'd tried to conceal it just by keeping it low in the mix. Candi Staton was on that year as well and she's 5 years older and sounded much better.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

I reckon the exception to this is Nick Lowe.