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Star Trek: The Next Generation Rewatch (oh god no)

Started by Lemming, May 11, 2021, 02:05:41 PM

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daf

Quote from: Lemming on July 25, 2021, 02:53:01 PM
There's an interesting concept in getting surgically altered and covertly entering the society, as Riker and Troi do here, and is later established as being standard practice prior to making official first contact, IIRC. Still feels wrong, but at least people know you're there and can speak to you directly, even if under false pretenses.

I've forgotten if this was explained anywhere - I know the Enterprise translates speech in real time (I assume), but how do Troi and Riker communicate with the Mintakans face to face? What's the deal there - is everyone 'humanoid' speaking english?

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: daf on July 25, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
I've forgotten if this was explained anywhere - I know the Enterprise translates speech in real time (I assume), but how do Troi and Riker communicate with the Mintakans? What's the deal there - is everyone 'humanoid' speaking english?

We see in DS9's "Little Green Men" that universal translators are actually implanted in your ear, so you don't need to be onboard a ship or station. But that still doesn't work for people, like the Mintakans, who don't have a translator. Troi & Riker could understand the Mintakans, but the Mintakans shouldn't be able to understand Troi & Riker.

Unless either:

1) Troi & Riker's universal translators somehow hook into the Mintakans' brains and make them hear Riker's English and Troi's Betazoid as Mintakan.

2) They secretly beamed translators into the ear of every Mintakan.

3) There's some way that you can learn a language in about an hour in Star Trek and Troi & Riker are actually speaking Mintakan. This is actually the least unlikely.

These are all problematic and unlikely, but not being able to communicate with the Mintakans would get in the way of the episode's plot.

Poobum

The non-intervention stuff is nonsense, definitely would go for a Culture type of intervention, directing species to post-scarcity fucktopias. What I'd love to see addressed is how morally abominable it is colonizing planets that already have life on them, instead it's treated like a given.

daf

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on July 25, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
3) There's some way that you can learn a language in an hour in Star Trek and Troi & Riker are actually speaking Mintakan.

And sounding like Edward Heath* making a speech in Paris!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* one for the teenagers!

Lemming

The big Universal Translator question is to do with lipsyncing. Even if we accept that Troi and Riker have implants that auto-translate Mintakan for them, and that there's some method of the Mintakans having English auto-translated into their own language in turn... surely it'd look weird as fuck when Riker and Troi's lips don't match what they're saying, from the Mintakan's perspective?

Holo-lips. They've got holo-lips which play different animations for each observer, depending on what language their speech is being translated into.

MojoJojo

I'm willing to suspend disbelief with the universal translator. They're in a space ship, I'm not going to quibble about the technicalities of them all speaking English. It would be so shit if they didn't.

It gets weirder when characters speak Klingon - how does that work? Do they turn the UT off for a bit.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Lemming on July 25, 2021, 02:53:01 PM

It also leads to situations like the one mentioned in the episode - Liko's wife, along with five other people, died in in the previous years' floods. Presumably, the observation post saw the floods coming and could have rendered some kind of aid in the aftermath, or even prevented the floods entirely, but they were too busy sat there watching and doing nothing like a much smaller-scale version of Pen Pals.
But that's sort of the point. If the federation reveal themselves, then the primatives are going to be asking for help all the time. The federation can then either agree to help, which quickly leads to the installation of replicators and cable TV and the complete destruction of the culture. Or they can refuse to help, which would make them look like dicks - and probably undermine the concept of progress, as who'd want to progress if it results in becoming cold hearted shits.

The observation side is arguably dodgy, but then it doesn't make sense in a practical way either. Why actually be there, instead of just using a probe or doing it from orbit. Why use a holographic disguise instead of just teleporting out a load of rock to make a real cave that can't just stop working? It's just the setup for the episode that's done with before the opening credits start.

Lemming

Quote from: MojoJojo on July 25, 2021, 10:21:36 PMThe federation can then either agree to help, which quickly leads to the installation of replicators and cable TV and the complete destruction of the culture.

This doesn't strike me as such a bad thing, so long as the people adopt it by choice - which, given the Federation's anti-imperial cred, would presumably be the case. Replicator access really ought to be something like a universal right, given their ability to eliminate hunger and poverty. If people on a planet are given a choice between maintaining their existing culture exactly as it is or adopting Federation technology, and the majority/entirety of people decide of their own free will to adopt the new technology that's been shared with them, I don't see the problem.

I assume many people would meld their own culture with the galactic community they're now part of, too. Mintakan TV shows about tapestry-weaving, hell yeah.

Can't remember if it was discussed earlier in the thread, but on this topic, something I've always thought could make for interesting storytelling is for the Federation to have some kind of universal asylum policy. So they show up to somewhere like Mintaka and say "hey, anyone who's interested can come aboard our ship and check it out and learn who we are and what we believe, and after that, you can choose whether or not to go back home or stay with us". Avoids the lets-kill-everyone aspects of the Prime Directive, but also leaves individual people with the opportunity to refuse all contact with the Federation if they really want to.

Would also lead to all kinds of interesting situations on planets that have things like slavery going on - "we can't ask you to stop slavery, but we'll ask each of the slaves if they'd rather be free". Diplomatic armageddon.

I'm trying to imagine it happening on Earth today - aliens arrive and ask each person on Earth if they'd like a food replicator. It'd put an immediate end to our current culture and our current hierarchies, possibly ending capitalism almost overnight, but we'd be doing it entirely of our own will because we've been given something we know is a better option.


Lemming

Don't know about that - thinking about real life again, if the Federation arrived and gave us the option to have personal replicators tomorrow, it wouldn't turn all the nations of Earth into replicas of the Federation. Our cultures would change in response to the possibilities we now have access to, the ruling class would probably collapse as people all gain the ability to live on their own terms and without threat of destitution, but we'd still be us with our own languages, dialects, histories, styles of comedy, conventions of fiction, music, ideological and philosophical beliefs, etc. Society would change, but it'd change based on our own actions and choices in response to the technology we've been given.

I mean, I definitely wouldn't be looking for a job right now if I had a replicator (or the opportunity to migrate to a hypothetical world more in line with my values). I suppose if everyone else decides to do the same thing, then our current culture collapses and is replaced by something else, but surely that's as a result of us rejecting our existing culture the first chance we get to sack it off. The Federation didn't destroy our culture of capitalism, we intentionally dismantled it ourselves by ceasing to participate in it after we discovered a better alternative.

I think it's just (yet another) ideological gulf between me and the writers of Star Trek. Oji the Mintakan asks Picard for knowledge, and the episodes suggests that he'd be wrong to agree to her request, indicating that if she learned about replicators and such and decided she couldn't be arsed farming and weaving and would rather live in luxury communism, that'd be a terrible worst-case-scenario, to be avoided at all costs. To me, that scenario just seems like someone taking advantage of new info/tech to take ownership of their life, as any of us would do in the same situation. If everyone on the planet joins her, then Mintakan society as it was is gone, but it's gone because the Mintakans decided to choose something else. The exact wording is that the Mintakans "must progress in their own way", as if evolving your ideas and lifestyle in response to new knowledge and technology isn't a part of progressing culturally.

Poobum

Leans a bit into the "noble savage" thing for me, where simpler cultures are seen as pure, and we must protect them from our horrible world, where they would quite like some indoor plumbing, medicine, and access to a wider interesting world of possibility thanks. People always go on about how Korowai culture has been destroyed; I think they seem quite happy not having to live in ridiculously tall trees anymore, trying to keep their firepits from burning their wooden house down, which as I've mentioned, is located in a ridiculously tall tree.

Blumf

If you want real life, the Native American tribes recognised that their culture would be crushed by European expansion, which is one of the main reason they still tend to live apart from general US society.

In universe, the Maquis certainly have a strong reason to doubt the benevolent influence of the UFP. And the already mentioned TNG film Insurrection shows how damaging an oblivious, if not downright corrupt, UFP can be.

Then there's Quark's chat with Garak over a root beer, "It's insidious."

Lemming

Quote from: Blumf on July 26, 2021, 12:15:22 AM
If you want real life, the Native American tribes recognised that their culture would be crushed by European expansion, which is one of the main reason they still tend to live apart from general US society.

In universe, the Maquis certainly have a strong reason to doubt the benevolent influence of the UFP. And the already mentioned TNG film Insurrection shows how damaging an oblivious, if not downright corrupt, UFP can be.

Not sure if the systematic campaign of mass murder and displacement against Native Americans compares with the Mintakans being given (upon request) access to replicators and books about space! The Federation being potentially untrustworthy is a fair point, and that's why the Prime Directive as it's shown in most of TOS and early TNG makes sense to me, where it's a set of guidelines to prevent Starfleet personnel from throwing their weight around, which demands that people ultimately be left alone with no lingering Federation influence unless they request it.

Like in Code of Honor and Angel One, where the Prime Directive seems to amount to "submit to the regional laws and don't use any advanced tech against the people you're visiting, but feel free to argue with them as long as you make sure to leave them alone again at the end of your trip". In those cases, it's about respecting people's right to self-determination, to have their own beliefs and to reject the Federation's beliefs, but doesn't prevent Starfleet from speaking to people and exchanging ideas with them, even debating them, and learning from each other. And it definitely doesn't force them to allow people to suffer and die in the name of fate/destiny.

One thing that just occurred to me is the internet - if there's an interplanetary equivalent to the internet in the world of Star Trek, would giving people access to it, and the ability to learn from and contribute to it, represent the destruction of their culture? I think the internet as it exists today shows us that people's worldviews and ideologies tend to be robust and adaptable enough to absorb all kinds of new information without really changing much, for better or worse. Access to the internet definitely hasn't turned us all into one monoculture, at the very least.

EDIT: I wonder exactly at which point the Federation considers cultural exchanges to be an interaction between equals. A freshly warp-capable civilisation is definitely not on par with the Federation in terms of influence, knowledge or technology. Earth in the 21st century when Cochrane made his flight is not the same as the UFP in the 24th century. Avoiding imperialism and coercion is still a concern when dealing with "weaker" warp-capable powers, but the Federation still acknowledges the potential to interact with and learn from those people. It doesn't make sense for pre-warp to be the cutoff point at which cultural exchange becomes impossible.

Poobum

Quote from: Blumf on July 26, 2021, 12:15:22 AM
If you want real life, the Native American tribes recognised that their culture would be crushed by European expansion, which is one of the main reason they still tend to live apart from general US society.

They've adapted larges amounts of westerns things into their culture quite well though haven't they? Their mistrust and urge to separate has been quite well earned. If treated with mutual respect and dignity from the get go, I think they'd have been quite happy to learn about western technology, art, and philosophy. I can't see how a benevolently intended forced exclusion could be seen as good, better then reality yes, but not an ideal.

Very little time for the Marquis, politically naïve, and unrealistic expectations. Like the American colonists poking at the French, then whining to the British when they got slapped. They don't wanna be part of the Federation but think the Federation should have prolonged the war to maintain sovereignty? No, only dumber thing they could have done was colonized the neutral zone. Again these series need to address the moral repugnancy of colonizing worlds with life on them, like what the Marquis done, the one thing I think a benevolent civ should be devoting its time preventing.

An issue with sharing technology though would be what if a group of people with those replicators devoted themselves to a war like way, or anything that's coercive and limiting to another group. Does the Federation maintain an open ended responsibility to police that species/culture's future actions?


Blumf

Can't help but notice you both avoided the ST:Insurrection problem[nb]Quite understandably, as it is fucking stupid over all, but the issue stands[/nb]. You can't trust the UFP to be a benevolent partner. I think the PD has been written with that in mind, as much as protecting culture.

Both the Ba'ku and Maquis have (rightly or wrongly) be dumped on by the UFP. The price of being part of it (or in the Ba'ku's case just being noticed) is that you become a very small pawn in the Fed's galactic power plays, not to mention corruption.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Lemming on July 25, 2021, 11:43:35 PM
I mean, I definitely wouldn't be looking for a job right now if I had a replicator (or the opportunity to migrate to a hypothetical world more in line with my values). I suppose if everyone else decides to do the same thing, then our current culture collapses and is replaced by something else, but surely that's as a result of us rejecting our existing culture the first chance we get to sack it off. The Federation didn't destroy our culture of capitalism, we intentionally dismantled it ourselves by ceasing to participate in it after we discovered a better alternative.

I don't think you can just hold your hand up and say "well, it's their choice" at that point. You could use the same justification to give everyone heroin or guns - hey, *they* chose to shoot each other.

Interesting to note a real problem with charity work in developing countries*. You can't just give a village a load of food or money. If you do that you risk the people of that village taking the year off, and the next village overs harvest fails because they don't have anyone bringing it in. Actual charity work is hard and identifying ways to actually help without causing inadvertent harm is difficult.

The depressing truth is that when a more technologically advanced people have interacted with a less technologically advanced one, it has almost always ended badly for the less technologically advanced one. Even when intentions are good.


(* mentioned in the Armando Iannucci Show commentaries)

Lemming

Quote from: Blumf on July 26, 2021, 01:52:12 AM
Can't help but notice you both avoided the ST:Insurrection problem[nb]Quite understandably, as it is fucking stupid over all, but the issue stands[/nb]. You can't trust the UFP to be a benevolent partner. I think the PD has been written with that in mind, as much as protecting culture.

Both the Ba'ku and Maquis have (rightly or wrongly) be dumped on by the UFP. The price of being part of it (or in the Ba'ku's case just being noticed) is that you become a very small pawn in the Fed's galactic power plays, not to mention corruption.

I can't remember the movies too well, other than Picard in a dune buggy. I do remember the Federation being hilariously corrupt and immovable in Insurrection, while Picard does his standard "WE COULD LEARN SO MUCH FROM THE BA'KU" stuff. We should rewatch the movies at the end of this thread, should be a laugh!

Quote from: MojoJojo on July 26, 2021, 09:39:11 AM
I don't think you can just hold your hand up and say "well, it's their choice" at that point. You could use the same justification to give everyone heroin or guns - hey, *they* chose to shoot each other.

Interesting to note a real problem with charity work in developing countries*. You can't just give a village a load of food or money. If you do that you risk the people of that village taking the year off, and the next village overs harvest fails because they don't have anyone bringing it in. Actual charity work is hard and identifying ways to actually help without causing inadvertent harm is difficult.

The depressing truth is that when a more technologically advanced people have interacted with a less technologically advanced one, it has almost always ended badly for the less technologically advanced one. Even when intentions are good.


(* mentioned in the Armando Iannucci Show commentaries)


These practical concerns are definitely a lot more convincing than the way TNG generally justifies the PD, which - at its worst in the likes of Pen Pals and Homeward - seems to amount to "the galaxy is a big zoo full of interesting people and Cultures™ for us to gawk at, all of whom must die in the name of culture/fate/destiny, until one person does a warp flight in which case we'll suddenly start treating them equally". I think you made a post a while back during the discussion on Pen Pals about how warp flight is simply the point at which the Federation reluctantly admits that they have to talk with people because it's become unavoidable, which is a good point, but the way it's presented in the show combines that with a lot of strange fetishisation of pre-warp cultures, usually at the expense of individual people's rights, wellbeing and even lives - we can't stop the floods from drowning Liko's wife because CULTURE, Sarjenka and her people must burn alive because CULTURE, literally the entire race in "Homeward" must get vaporised because CULTURAL INTEGRITY, etc.

I think the TOS/early TNG version of the PD implies restrictions or even bans on sharing technology, like how leaving the communicator behind in A Piece Of The Action is considered a major-league fuckup. I can definitely see arguments against giving people mass access to replicator technology overnight without any real foresight in place, but I have a much harder time understanding arguments against giving people (especially if they request it, as Oji does) factual information about the existence of alien life, science, space, all kinds of different philosophical ideas, etc. Even medical knowledge, though I suppose that could lead to things like overpopulation if the infant mortality rate hits zero in a very short time span.

Angel One is the only episode to ever bring it up, but it's even more absurd since literally anyone who isn't a member of Starfleet can show up and do whatever they want. You'd think that the Federation would want to make the best of it and oversee first contact themselves to ensure smoothness and help people avoid being misled or coerced, rather than letting some random Harry Mudd-esque chancer show up and do it for them, let alone the Klingons (who might just beat the shit out of everyone, as in Enterprise's "Marauders") or Ferengi (who might proclaim themselves gods, as in Voyager's "False Profits").

Internet access is another interesting one the more I think about it, though it's never quite clear if the internet as it is today exists in Star Trek. Wonder what the effects would be of the Mintakans still having to spend all day farming and weaving, but being given a village computer that lets them read and post on CaB. I guess something absolutely hilarious could happen, like Starfleet visitors give a laptop to a medieval culture and it ends up being confiscated by the priest class who become the only ones allowed to read reddit.

MojoJojo

It's probably fair to say I'm not really arguing what ST actually presents anymore.

Lemming

S03E06 - Booby Trap

Geordi constructs a hologram of one of the Enterprise's designers to assist him, but it starts to act in unexpected ways.

- The agonising cringe of Geordi's date. I've never, ever understood why they chose to give him this character trait all of a sudden. Why is he a socially inept weirdo now? Up until now, he's always come across as almost comically laconic and chilled out, now he's suddenly riddled with anxiety and romantic strife, and acts like a 13 year old. Why?!

- There's something weird out there in space! Riker suggests not checking it out. It's a PROMELLIAN BATTLE CRUISER, with its LANG CYCLE FUSION ENGINES still intact. This is apparently a good thing.

- Picard is absolutely thrilled by the tragic deaths of the entire crew of the battle cruiser, because it gives him a chance to nose around and do some archaeology.

- Geordi's missing out on all the "fun", because he's sat at the bar being an emo. Guinan closes in on him out of fucking nowhere like a homing pigeon that senses emotional despair.
QuoteLAFORGE: Tell me something, Guinan. You're a woman, right?
GUINAN: Yes, I can tell you I'm a woman.
LAFORGE: What is it that you want in a man?
GUINAN: Me personally?
LAFORGE: As a woman. What's the first thing you look at?
Welcome to high school. I'd like to remind you that Geordi is 31 years old when this episode takes place.

- Picard comes back onto the bridge and tells everyone the abandoned ship was the coolest thing he's ever seen. The smile fades somewhat when the ship starts going apeshit and drains the Enterprise of energy, marooning it in place.

- The Enterprise is doomed as usual, so Geordi goes to figure out what's going on. He learns that a scientist named Leah Brahms is the expert on Galaxy-class warp drives, so he goes off to the holodeck and generates an AI of her to help save the Enterprise. The AI suddenly appears in a hologram based on Brahms' appearance.

- The Brahms hologram robotically recites facts about the warp drive, and gives Geordi the info needed to re-enable the warp drives. Geordi decides the Brahms hologram is boring, and asks the computer to start going through all the real Brahms' writings and personal files to try and imbue the hologram with an accurate recreation of Brahms' personality. Uh oh.

-
QuotePICARD: Aceton assimilators?
DATA: Aceton assimilators are a primitive generator which can drain power from distant sources-
RIKER: Generators.
DATA: -it would not be difficult to modify them to convert energy into radiation.
Generators.

- Geordi falls out with the Brahms hologram in about forty seconds and starts screaming at it about warp theory.

- Geordi gets stressed and the Brahms hologram ends up taking over. Picard walks in and looks vaguely disturbed before moonwalking out.

- Riker goes to Picard's ready room and says he's not comfortable with handing control of the ship over to a hologram. There's all kinds of weirdness with this the more you think about it - the Brahms hologram literally is the Enterprise computer. The Enterprise computer has given itself a physical form through which it will operate itself. Weird. But everyone agrees that the Brahms hologram is better than a human (fuck all non-human crew!!!), so they'll just have to chance it.

- The solution to the tech issue, if anyone cares, is to set the warp engine off and then turn the entire computer off and let the ship drift out on its own. I don't get it either.

- Picard insists on piloting the ship himself during this maneuver, purely because he wants to look cool, there's no other reason.

- Problem solved. Geordi goes back to the holodeck to give a teary goodbye to the Brahms hologram. They kiss.

Let's put the elephant in the room aside for a second and look at the titular booby trap. It's so boring. There's absolutely nothing to it, and the thousand-year-old war that the trap was made for is basically thrown aside with almost no information given to the audience. The ship might as well be getting sucked up a giant arsehole for all it matters. What's weird is that it's not just a vehicle to enable the other plot with Geordi and the hologram - I think most of the screentime is actually dedicated to this tedious non-plot where the lights gradually go out aboard the ship as Riker panics and says the radiation levels are rising. I'll freely admit to not understanding basically anything about physics, so if the solution about using inertia was clever, it went over my head.

So we're left with the Geordi plot, which is just, you know. This turn in his characterisation doesn't feel organic at all to me, I have no idea why the writers did this to him. Him ordering the computer to go through Brahms' stuff to try and generate an AI based on her (he demands that it be as close as possible to the real Brahms) is just really fucking odd, and the episode somehow seems totally unaware of how its coming across. The kiss at the end is enough to make your skin crawl.

It's strange because I don't know how you're meant to view the plot. It's not a story about Geordi overcoming his social anxiety, it's not really a story about falling in love with a computer (he shuts it off at the end and there's never really any indication at all that his attachment to the hologram could become problematic), it's not a story about the ethical awkwardness of falling in love with a computer recreation of a real person, because the episode doesn't even broach that topic at all, so what the hell is it? Is it meant to be a cute quasi-love story? Is it meant to be a comedy? Is it just filler for the real plot, where we watch Riker stomp around saying that they're all gonna die? Is it a story about whether or not to trust the computer's inhuman reflexes over our own human ones?

Also have to note that, before either of these plots kick in, there's the monstrously slow-paced archaeological trip to the derelict ship, which goes on forever. It's almost a relief when the creepy Geordi shit kicks in. 3/10.

The only good thing I can say about the episode is that the Bramhs hologram, before Geordi fucks it up, is actually a really nice idea and a creative use for the holodeck. You can get a nearly-accurate recreation of any person, which means you can call on the top experts in any field to help you solve problems. How cool is that? I also like the weirdness of the Enterprise flying itself via a holographic avatar, but that's barely investigated in the episode.


MojoJojo

They really missed a trick with this episode, calling it the Booby trap but not giving Brahms massive norks.

Not much to say about it, your description is pretty spot on. It has a couple of early season ideas in it - giving Geordi a love interest, and holographic fantasy women. I think LeVar was always a bit to cuddly to be a convincing love interest. And the holographic fantasy woman thing doesn't really go anywhere.

They rather casually blow up the important historical artifact and war grave at the end.

Blumf

At least later episodes address the creepy elephant in the room (I forget how well), and turn to a more rounded treatment of holo-addiction with Barclay.

Voyager also takes a more interesting look at recreating real people to assist idea.

Overall I think this episode lays some good foundations, however inadvertently, even if, at it's core, it's rather empty.

Zetetic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars are an interesting example of the aftermath of the relatively free adoption of a novel and radical technology.

(The title gives away the punchline a bit, although it's not just guns.)

Zetetic

Japanese history from the 16th century onwards as well might be an interesting comparison as well, not least because of the somewhat successful reaction of closing off and pushing back for a bit. (I'm sure that Japan isn't the only place where this was the case and it's just the one I'm vaguely aware of, assisted by geography etc.)

Interesting question whether some or most of Earth's ruling classes would try to oppose Federation replicator tech being widely available, and what threats they'd have available to them (even in the face of a massively technologically superior power) to do this.

daf

053 | "Booby Trap"



Well done Miss Brahms, you've all done very well!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights :
• Gratuitous Violins
• Guinan's Baldy-Boner
• O'Brien : Ship-in-a-Bottle Backup
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• 3D chess #1 : Data vs. Wesley
• Palm Torch #1
• Geordi's Holo-Snog
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Score :

Lemming

After the consensus of the first two seasons, looks like our ratings are starting to diverge! Should make for an interesting season recap.

Quote from: Zetetic on July 27, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Interesting question whether some or most of Earth's ruling classes would try to oppose Federation replicator tech being widely available, and what threats they'd have available to them (even in the face of a massively technologically superior power) to do this.

It raises the question of who the Federation should/would first speak to, too - the American or Chinese governments seem the obvious choices, but if the only requirement is that you talk to some kind of "leader", there's no reason not to first approach the government of, like, Benin.

The way it's presented in every Star Trek episode I can think of is that the wishes of local governments have to be respected, so in the Earth scenario, if the American government tells the Federation to leave immediately and that nobody on Earth is to be given any kind of medical/material assistance, the visiting captain just has to turn right back around and jet off to their next adventure, never to return[nb]which is pretty much the plot of the episode "First Contact", IIRC[/nb]. If you live under an oppressive government and/or in terrible living conditions, the only way to get help from the Federation is to somehow board the visiting starship and then ask for asylum, but there's no real way to get to that point in the first place because the Federation will only speak to your government, and considers them to be speaking on your behalf.

Gets into what MojoJojo was saying a while back about how the Prime Directive might just be a way for Starfleet to avoid headaches more than anything else.

Blumf

That one of the recurring problems with most of these sci-fi got to a planet of the week shows. These places only seem to have one world government, no plurality of leadership, or even political ideals.

Yeah, I know, it makes things quicker and easier, but it would be nice for a first contact to have to deal with multiple not exactly friendly powers.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Blumf on July 27, 2021, 05:52:52 PM
That one of the recurring problems with most of these sci-fi got to a planet of the week shows. These places only seem to have one world government, no plurality of leadership, or even political ideals.
Maybe the show is (accidentally) making a point along the lines of "the only way we'll ever get into space is if we all work together".

daf

Quote from: Lemming on July 27, 2021, 05:01:09 PM
After the consensus of the first two seasons, looks like our ratings are starting to diverge!

Haha, yes - I'm not doing it deliberately, honest!

Quote from: Lemming on July 26, 2021, 11:04:35 PMit's not a story about the ethical awkwardness of falling in love with a computer recreation of a real person, because the episode doesn't even broach that topic at all,

There's a sequel to this episode coming up in the next season that delves into the ethics of what he does here - so that may tickle your fancy a bit more.

Lemming

There's an episode later on where they say that a world government is an entry requirement to become a Federation member world, I think. Always liked Voyager's really half-arsed attempts at giving planets more cultural diversity - "Captain, the distress signal is coming from THE SOUTHERN CONTINENT!"

Quote from: daf on July 27, 2021, 11:14:45 PM
There's a sequel to this episode coming up in the next season that delves into the ethics of what he does here - so that may tickle your fancy a bit more.

I think I remember that one! Mainly for Patrick Stewart having to give a deadly-serious performance alongside a CGI space-fish stuck to the ship's hull.

Zetetic

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on July 27, 2021, 11:11:51 PM
Maybe the show is (accidentally) making a point along the lines of "the only way we'll ever get into space is if we all work together".
Alternatively - genocide.