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March 28, 2024, 12:06:33 PM

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What's the deal with Hitman

Started by Clownbaby, May 12, 2021, 10:45:39 PM

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Clownbaby

I keep trying, but I just can't get my head around the Hitman games. Making my way through the massive crowds of people without somehow being suspicious before I've even done anything/even being able to get a chef or whatever alone to steal their uniform in the first place, not happening for me. Yes, I know it's obviously not impossible because other people manage but I just don't know what I'm missing, I usually like this sort of thing. Maybe I'm just fucking stupid I dunno

I was playing Hitman 2 t'other day, the bit with the modern house by the beach at night, and the target died without me really doing anything. I do not understand what happened. First I destroyed the security cameras, had a look around the house, found the secret room and did the computer part. Then I fucked about a bit, noticed you could flood the bathroom  so did that, because I could. Once the target and her security arrived I concentrated on thinning out the security that were hanging about and killed about 90% of them stealthily. I sneaked about a bit desperately looking at other areas but not actually doing anything, suddenly : TARGET ELIMINATED

What

Then the racing track stage. The atmosphere and absolutely packed area just felt completely impenetrable without a massive irritating trudge through trial and error before you maybe get somewhere. Maybe that is the point though. Anyway, I managed to steal the flamingo outfit to get through to the VIP section, where the flamingo had previously been, and lo and behold, I was now trespassing. Nobody saw me nick the costume, I wasn't in a weird area. I'm most likely looking at this from a Hitman beginner's perspective but nothing I do seems to have a) any effect or b) clear demonstration by the game that something is underway. Like the house by the beach. I was paying attention but had no subtle reinforcement even, that I'd set anything into motion, and the target just died. So I had nothing to build on for the next bit, because I still don't know what I did. Also for some reason even the game startup menus feel fussy and off to me.

I want to get to the bottom of why I can't get it together with this franchise. There's something about it, a sort of naff flashy sexiness which I like but every time I try to play a Hitman game I get chlaustrophobic and irritated and my neck starts going and every single action feels awkward and restricted. Suppose I'm just venting my initial disorientation and confusion with Hitman as a whole, and there's not a real point to this thread, but maybe I'll be totally enlightened by something someone says and everything will click into place.

bgmnts

Nah I agree with naff, flash sexiness vibe you get from it.

Hitman: Silent Assassin and Hitman: Bloody Money are a bit more old school and don't have that modern feel, it feels more free in a way. You don't have that barrage of information and challenges thrown at you, for one thing.

Mr Trumpet

I got one of the newer ones. Too bloody difficult for me. Punted a baddie into the Seine while he was on a fag break and stuff like that is a good laugh but it's just so hard to set up to fun kills.

Lemming

The new ones can be a lot of fun but they never entirely clicked with me for some reason. There's a dizzying range of ways to approach each target, but in the end, there's nothing stopping you from just walking over to them, shooting them in the head with a silenced pistol, hiding in the nearest dumpster or wardrobe for 60 seconds until everyone forgets about it, then strolling off to the exit. You even usually get a very high rating by doing this. The only challenge is that once in a while you'll have to put on stupid clothes to get near the target, or just abuse the cover-based stealth system to slip past all the guards in plain sight.

You have to be the kind of person who's eager to play around with the tools the game gives you to entertain yourself by creating an endless series of Mission Impossible style events which culminate in a perfect Silent Assassin rating every time. I'm not that kind of person - if the game gives me goals, I just try to complete them, and if the easiest way to do that is to ignore 95% of the game's content and just shoot the target, that's what I end up doing every time.

The hints system is also ridiculous, in that it leads you down a series of pre-planned routes that literally can't fail as long as you follow the instructions. Even if you turn hints off, the design still tends to guide you down very clear paths as soon as you stumble upon the first step yourself.

H-O-W-L

After you get a Silent Assassin on any given level (a piece of piss with the built in Opportunities) just have fun with it, don't give a fuck. Play about, kill innocents, throw bombs, that sort of thing. It's what I do and I've got about 800 hours in all three of the games combined and have done every challenge in 2.

There is no "wrong way" to play Hitman.

Kelvin

I haven't played the re-launched series (i.e. 1, 2 and 3), but I've been hugely put off by how glossy and anodyne the levels and overall atmosphere seem to have become, compared to the grittier, more sordid environments of the earlier games. There's obviously been a wider move towards a Bond-style tone - everything from the art style, to the music, to the targets have reflected that shift -  but to me the series appears to have lost part of it's identity in the process.

brat-sampson

I really enjoy the new Hitman games, but for me they're massive time sinks. The number of challenges/options/secret threads throughout each and every one of these gargantuan puzzle-box levels is just mind-blowing. I'd think of it less trial and error and more just exploration. So like, might be you think you find some good option for a kill or good entry point, but you need a key-card or a wrench or a golf ball or whatever. Probably about the worst thing you could do at that point from a 'fun' standpoint is trek all over the level hunting in a focused way for that key mcguffin. Better to just remember it's there, so later on if on another run you *do* find the thing you need, you can go Ohhhh, and later try it out.

Also, Hitman's glossy sexy feel or whatever is a total front. These are very silly puzzle/comedy games. It's a weird miss-sell because yeah you can go in expecting some kind of stealth/action game, and while some elements of that are there, it's kinda really not that. The fun for me at least is in the gradual revealing of the layers of the environment, setting up these stupid/elaborate deaths either by strictly following a couple of the Mission Stories to get my bearings on the level and what's what or just turning them off and exploring freely. The immediate goal can be achieved with a silencer and a dumpster, sure, but that's why they add in the challenges and so on to encourage playing around, learning the environment and finding the hidden kill options. There's a reason they released the levels in the first season one at a time, weeks apart, and it worked out fine, because players could just take that time to really dig deep into each level.

I think the first beach house mission in 2 is an anomaly because it doesn't really have this stuff. It's more of an intro to get your bearings, explore a space with no danger at the start, and kill someone who's pretty easy to kill. The race track one has loads more and is the first 'real' level in that game. I suggest following a couple of Mission Stories first, even if it's just 'follow the instructions until you win' then see what you can find and if you enjoy it.

Mark Brown of Game Maker's Toolkit did a video on the Racetrack level including some chat with the devs if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56iiP2xQn74

Clownbaby

#7
Quote from: Lemming on May 13, 2021, 01:42:24 AM
The new ones can be a lot of fun but they never entirely clicked with me for some reason. There's a dizzying range of ways to approach each target, but in the end, there's nothing stopping you from just walking over to them, shooting them in the head with a silenced pistol, hiding in the nearest dumpster or wardrobe for 60 seconds until everyone forgets about it, then strolling off to the exit.

Yep, this is something else I don't like about it. Any game where I literally can ignore all the mechanics and structure of the level and just fuck it completely, I'm not a fan of. I think I was expecting this to be a game that values stealth, but now I see that it kind of isn't. I'm not a fan of most wide open game formats, because there istoo much I could possibly do, and yet the game goes ahead and shows me that it's kind of pointless to go out of your way doing all of it anyway. Completely different, but I find this with the Far Cry games as well. I spent ages memorising the movement patterns of some blokes so I could take them all out without being seen, got fed up being seen, ran madly past them all and just killed the main bloke to get the key off him. I don't think you should be able to just do that.

I don't like being led through something too strictly linear and mindless but I also don't like having a stage dumped in front of me, as if the game's going ''here do what you like, here's a load of shite you can use. Or don't. Whatever, I don't care'', it feels like I shouldn't have been able to shoot the target in the head in a crowded room and then just hide in a bin, like that's some sort of AI glitch, yet that's what the least irritating solution seems to be every single time. I guess it boils down to me not being into sandboxy formats. I always hated ''choose your own adventure'' kids books as well. It just felt like it all didn't matter.

St_Eddie

Jerry Seinfeld's getting a bit desperate for material these days.

St_Eddie

Quote from: brat-sampson on May 13, 2021, 06:47:06 AM
Mark Brown of Game Maker's Toolkit did a video on the Racetrack level including some chat with the devs if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56iiP2xQn74

Bah!  All this talk throughout the thread of a Racetrack level and I was envisioning a horse racetrack.  Clicked the video to see it's a motorsports racetrack.  The level in my head was far cooler, quite frankly.

Quote from: Clownbaby on May 13, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
Yep, this is something else I don't like about it. Any game where I literally can ignore all the mechanics and structure of the level and just fuck it completely, I'm not a fan of. I think I was expecting this to be a game that values stealth, but now I see that it kind of isn't. I'm not a fan of most wide open game formats, because there istoo much I could possibly do, and yet the game goes ahead and shows me that it's kind of pointless to go out of your way doing all of it anyway. Completely different, but I find this with the Far Cry games as well. I spent ages memorising the movement patterns of some blokes so I could take them all out without being seen, got fed up being seen, ran madly past them all and just killed the main bloke to get the key off him. I don't think you should be able to just do that.

I don't like being led through something too strictly linear and mindless but I also don't like having a stage dumped in front of me, as if the game's going ''here do what you like, here's a load of shite you can use. Or don't. Whatever, I don't care'', it feels like I shouldn't have been able to shoot the target in the head in a crowded room and then just hide in a bin, like that's some sort of AI glitch, yet that's what the least irritating solution seems to be every single time. I guess it boils down to me not being into sandboxy formats. I always hated ''choose your own adventure'' kids books as well. It just felt like it all didn't matter.

Given the above, I think it's fair to say that this series just isn't something that you're ever likely to enjoy playing.  It's like how I can't stand strategy games.  My brain just isn't wired to enjoy that type of gameplay; controlling whole units of soldiers and vehicles across a map and what have you.  Hate it.  I like to take control of a single character and only be concerned about what's in front of me at that very moment.  So yeah, it doesn't sound like Hitman is ever going to *click* for you, but at least you gave it a fair shake.

beanheadmcginty

I got the 2016 game for free on Epic a while back and only started playing it recently. As soon as I discovered that each level has a finite number of NPCs on it and I can kill them all, that is literally the only thing I have been trying to do. It's great fun but fucking difficult.

Clownbaby

Quote from: St_Eddie on May 13, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Bah!  All this talk throughout the thread of a Racetrack level and I was envisioning a horse racetrack.  Clicked the video to see it's a motorsports racetrack.  The level in my head was far cooler, quite frankly.

Given the above, I think it's fair to say that this series just isn't something that you're ever likely to enjoy playing.  It's like how I can't stand strategy games.  My brain just isn't wired to enjoy that type of gameplay; controlling whole units of soldiers and vehicles across a map and what have you.  Hate it.  I like to take control of a single character and only be concerned about what's in front of me at that very moment.  So yeah, it doesn't sound like Hitman is ever going to *click* for you, but at least you gave it a fair shake.

Oh those three dreaded words: turn based strategy