The Final FUCKDOWN

[MojoJojo]

You're sort of mi

and if it updated the criteria for testing to the 21 symptoms on the ZOE website, that would also help keep vulnerable people safe.

Just to pick on one thing, you're mixing up fundamental things here. A list of covid symptoms is a completely different thing to useful diagnostic criteria.

[Zetetic]

And that's going to be a more difficult question still in the next few months.

[SpiderChrist]

you will catch it sooner or later unless you want to isolate from society for ever.

Nice to see I have options. Think I need to stay out of this sub-forum (and society, clearly) from now on.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I think the cost of N95 masks to everyone would be astronomical, even those who don't need them?

The government has no involvement in Zoe to my knowledge, it's a university project.

An upside to the masks situation is that low paid supermarket workers aren't forced into a position of defending rules, with all the conflict that surrounds it.

I get that the government's stance is to "force" us back to the office but they aren't trying very hard at the moment. My employer halved their hq size and aren't pushing us to attend more than once a month. If gov wanted to force people back, they would introduce some home working tax. Maybe that's still to come in the budget.

CEV people who are double jabbed shouldn't be worried, they have the best protection we can offer. Remember this virus is now endemic and isn't going to disappear; govs aren't going to pour billions into new treatment when we've already paid for some; you will catch it sooner or later unless you want to isolate from society for ever.

Sorry, I should have expressed that better - I meant the government should use the info on the ZOE website to update the testing criteria on the government website.

The cost of N95 masks would be offset somewhat by the savings to businessess if less employees got sick. Ideally we would have brought in a windfall tax on businesses like Amazon to help fund this, but I know the Tories would never do this.

I take your point re supermarket workers not being forced into a position of defending and/or enforcing the rules. It's a difficult one.

[Drygate]

CEV people who are double jabbed shouldn't be worried, they have the best protection we can offer.

Just because they've had the best protection we can offer, doesn't mean they shouldn't be worried. I assume you're referring to the vaccines, and while they are great at reducing the symptoms, the few people that are dying despite being vaccinated are the ones that are CEV.

[scarecrow]

The few people? It's about 200 a day.

[MojoJojo]

The few people? It's about 200 a day.

200 is about a1/3 over the 150 who are dying with covid on the death certificate per day. And Drygate was specifically talking about those who are vaccinated, and from common accounts it's mostly the unvaccinated who are dying..

Things are bad, you don't need to exaggerate to make it worse.

[olliebean]

Not trying to stress anyone out further but there were a few reports that experts were bracing for a bad flu season and the risk of death doubles if you get both that and Covid at the same time.

I don't think we have to be careful forever, but at least lets get through this winter and then we'll really know where we stand.

The risk of death from flu (and probably from Covid as well) also increases if you can't afford to heat your home. Not sure whether the government haven't realised that or just aren't arsed enough about it to do anything about the rocketing energy bills.

[Ferris]

Counterpoint - a lot of people who are potentially vulnerable to a respiratory virus are already pushing up daisies so it might be much better.

Edit: though I suppose some may have been made more vulnerable to it by their infection? Hmm I retract my optimism.

[jobotic]

45,000 now. Why is it so bad? Particularly compared to Europe

Most seem to be teenagers and 30-50s

[chveik]

Nice to see I have options. Think I need to stay out of this sub-forum (and society, clearly) from now on.

yes best to avoid the propaganda about 'vulnerable' people

[Fambo Number Mive]

45,000 now. Why is it so bad? Particularly compared to Europe

Most seem to be teenagers and 30-50s

Aren't most other European countries still requiring masks in indoor public places and not trying to go full let it rip that this country is? That probably accounts for why cases are so much higher.

[steveh]

They also started on vaccinating children much earlier. Here there seems to be an infection path from kids to parents to grandparents.

[Chedney Honks]

Love cunts going hard on the 'voice of reason' shit while going full Herr Eugenics.

All the best to you and yours.

[olliebean]

45,000 now. Why is it so bad? Particularly compared to Europe

Most seem to be teenagers and 30-50s

Note also that compared to the fairly acute peak in July, this is a relatively sustained level, so although the daily numbers of new infections are lower than at the July peak, the total number of infected people on any given day is almost certainly greater.

[jamiefairlie]

They also started on vaccinating children much earlier. Here there seems to be an infection path from kids to parents to grandparents.

Who could ever have imagined such a scenario? " Lessons have been learned"

[olliebean]

https://twitter.com/DMinghella/status/1448232506063470594

Twelve thousand, six hundred and seventy-five Covid victims have died since the abandonment of all caution on "freedom day". May their souls rest in peace, and may their families rise in fury.

12,675 since "freedom day" is equivalent to over 53,000 per year.

Meanwhile, back in August: https://inews.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-privately-accepts-up-to-50000-annual-covid-deaths-as-an-acceptable-level-1170069

Boris Johnson 'privately accepts' up to 50,000 annual Covid deaths as an acceptable level

So, is the level of deaths unacceptable yet?

[katzenjammer]

45,000 now. Why is it so bad? Particularly compared to Europe

Most seem to be teenagers and 30-50s

In Madrid 88% of the population over 12 has been vaccinated, masks are required in schools, public transport and maybe most indoor spaces. I'm not sure, everyone just wears them when they're inside (and a lot do outside) so I don't know if it's mandated or not.  We currently have an incidence of 50/100K. Could all go tits up next week of course, who knows.

[katzenjammer]

Something that just came to mind, which is possibly worrying, is that most of Europe vaccinated quite quickly and quite recently compared to the UK. If the UK is suffering larger infection rates due to a drop off in antibodies because more time has passed since vaccinations Europe could follow suit in a few months time.

[Alberon]

I don't think we're seeing a lot of double-vaccinated deaths so hopefully that isn't the case.

Whether we'll need a new jab every year like the flu one I have no idea. If we do and apathy sets in with the public then we might get a sudden spike of deaths out of nowhere one winter.

[MojoJojo]

https://twitter.com/DMinghella/status/1448232506063470594

12,675 since "freedom day" is equivalent to over 53,000 per year.

I don't know where he's getting his figures from. Looking at https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths, the deaths with covid on the the death certificate between 19th July and 10th October is 5527.

Which isn't great. I know people are just venting anger but please spend 5 minutes checking things before repeating a lie?

(fake edit:  I think what's they've done is take the the average from the last 7 days, 145, and multiplied it by the number of days since July 19th (88) which give roughly that figure. Maybe the guy who created Doc Martin isn't the best person to get your statistics from?)

[Cuellar]

I don't know where he's getting his figures from. Looking at https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths, the deaths with covid on the the death certificate between 19th July and 10th October is 5527.

I make it 8986

[Pranet]

I made it 9808..... It would be helpful to know where he got his figures from.

[MojoJojo]

Now I look like a pratt. No change there I guess.

[jamiefairlie]

I don't think we're seeing a lot of double-vaccinated deaths so hopefully that isn't the case.

Whether we'll need a new jab every year like the flu one I have no idea. If we do and apathy sets in with the public then we might get a sudden spike of deaths out of nowhere one winter.

Apathy is already the norm.

[Alberon]

True.

Depending on how long the vaccines work we might get a nasty shock in the winter after next.

[Milo]

I've had periods where I've wanted to get flu so I can have some free time off so I can see me not keeping up with my covid boosters in years to come.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Something that just came to mind, which is possibly worrying, is that most of Europe vaccinated quite quickly and quite recently compared to the UK. If the UK is suffering larger infection rates due to a drop off in antibodies because more time has passed since vaccinations Europe could follow suit in a few months time.

Yes, this will happen and also due to seasonal factors and complacency.

The large infection rates in the UK aren't to do with a drop off in antibodies but a public health decision to let it run rampant in the general population on the basis that vaccines cap deaths and hospitalisations to a culturally acceptable level and to a point where NHS workers still turn up for their shift and no go 'You know what, fuck this. "

[steveh]

The UK-exclusive AY.4.2 variant, a Delta variant sub-lineage, has been linked to a 10% rise in transmissibility and is around 7% of those sequenced here currently. This is a truly great country.

[Chedney Honks]

Ayyyy lmao 420