Poll

Have we got one more to go before the end of 2021?

Yes.
88 (66.7%)
No.
34 (25.8%)
Young people probably spread it in the first place so prepare to meet thy doom 😂😂😂
10 (7.6%)

Total Members Voted: 132

Author Topic: The Final FUCKDOWN  (Read 76961 times)

gib

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1170 on: September 08, 2021, 09:53:50 PM »
What do you consider voluntary fun activities?

Cuellar's mum

Cuellar

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1171 on: September 08, 2021, 10:19:09 PM »
Pretty valid answer

The Mollusk

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1172 on: September 09, 2021, 06:46:56 AM »
I’d guess apathy has won, more than anything. It’s hard to make everyone alter their behaviour and once it slips, that’s sort of it.

Yeah, this and normalisation. Seeing other people not wearing a mask or social distancing just breeds apathy. It’s easier to do nothing, even though wearing a mask and social distancing is only a fucking tiny little bit more than doing nothing.

I commute all over London every day for my work - often several bus/tube journeys per day - and I’ve never not worn a mask as soon as I set foot inside a station or a bus and the same applies for every shop or pub or restaurant. But in the last couple of weeks when inspecting properties for work if a contractor has turned up unexpectedly I have caught myself not putting my mask on when they arrive. A subconscious culmination of there only being two of us in this empty property, rarely being in the same room or near one another, and I always open the windows when I get to a place anyway. But that’s where it starts. If I let myself stop taking that extra step of safety it’s inevitably downhill from there. And on the vast majority of other occasions when I have put the mask on, the people entering the property will often have an “oh, yep, of course” response and put theirs on too. This stuff needs constant reinforcement.

MojoJojo

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1173 on: September 09, 2021, 09:10:46 AM »

…and yet! They were unfamiliar with certain kinds of masks and regularly forgot to bring them places, were baffled when people politely declined their cash and requested card payments, and said things like “oh well I’m only going to nip inside for a few minutes so surely I don’t need a mask for that”. They’re not idiots, they’ve just lived the last 18 months in the UK and have adopted British social behaviours that seemed really different (and frankly, more lax and bad) from the ones I have lived with for the same time period.

That sounds pretty bad by my UK standards. My guess would be that's less to do with different culture, and more to do with them actually getting out the house/country for the first time.

If they're anything like my parents, they hardly left the house since it began. Which is the right thing to do, but means they won't have developed the same "keys, phone, wallet, mask" habits that non-retirees have had to develop.

Then they leave the house and country, which is already a bit disorienting, and get stuff wrong.

I'm obviously guessing a lot, but I think the things you mention aren't things that someone who is covid aware in the UK would think are OK.

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1174 on: September 09, 2021, 09:40:38 AM »
What do you consider voluntary fun activities?

It's tricky as things like socialiaing and exercise have positive health benefits. Under what circumstances should they be banned?

Why not call for the vaccine rollout to be stepped up rather than banning things?

How would you suggest we step up the vaccine rollout? It looks like supply of the vaccine is the main issue holding things back, I imagine about 10% of the country will be against having the vaccine and we're nearly at 90% for one jab, so we may not get that many more people having their first jab.

Better publicity of the amount of people in hospital without a covid jab might help, 75% according to Johnson. He doesn't say how many of the other 25% only had one jab.

Quote
The number of unvaccinated people ending up in hospital with Covid is "concerning", Boris Johnson has said.

Three quarters of those hospitalised had not had a Covid jab, with a "higher proportion" of younger people now being affected, he said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58494842

We also need to encourage as many people as possible to get a flu jab as well as their covid jabs to reduce the number of people in hospital with flu.

Socialising and exercising can be done outside if the weather is ok or if not in a well venitllated room , that would be one way to reduce the risk. The more dangerous activities are things like going to a nightclub, going to a pub, travelling abroad, going to a football game etc.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1175 on: September 09, 2021, 10:03:19 AM »
I woke up in a pile of sweat the other night. I couldn't sleep and my lungs felt a tiny bit weird so naturally I started to panic a bit. This is it this is it. Temperature was normal so squeegeed myself off and eventually went back to sleep.

Was fine in the morning but it's that worry in the back of the mind. So many psychological issues happening. I was in a shop today was it there I got it? Was it the cinema on Saturday? Oh no I'm a gonner even though fully vaccinated. Argh!

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1176 on: September 09, 2021, 10:48:53 AM »
My guess would be that's less to do with different culture, and more to do with them actually getting out the house/country for the first time.

I did wonder this also - it’s hard to draw generalizations from 2 people and my observations may well be worthless. Still, I found them interesting so I shared them here though you’re right, I should add a massive “2 people does not equal a very good dataset” caveat.

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1177 on: September 09, 2021, 07:18:47 PM »
When it’s safe to do so. My fun should not contribute to another’s death, these are not notions that should ever be part of a balancing calculation.

You mean risk rather than contribute, and I think if you cast your mind back, or even just looked at it impassively, you have probably asympotmatically carried other diseases and unwittingly transmitted them to others, some of whom could have been particularly vulnerable to them, long before Covid came along. Some may have been treasured family members.

There is a balance of risk I'm afraid, the risks of mixing and morality around that is a grey area. Simple conscientious acts around others is good, but someone is looking at those people and going 'they should be indoors until this all passes over'...

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1178 on: September 09, 2021, 07:33:52 PM »
You mean risk rather than contribute, and I think if you cast your mind back, or even just looked at it impassively, you have probably asympotmatically carried other diseases and unwittingly transmitted them to others, some of whom could have been particularly vulnerable to them, long before Covid came along. Some may have been treasured family members.

There is a balance of risk I'm afraid, the risks of mixing and morality around that is a grey area. Simple conscientious acts around others is good, but someone is looking at those people and going 'they should be indoors until this all passes over'...

Yes you’re right of course but some things are such an obvious imbalance in risk/benefit analysis that they shouldn’t be allowed e.g going to clubs, festivals, restaurants and the like. Can anyone argue that those type of activities are worth the risk of adding to the damage?

katzenjammer

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1179 on: September 09, 2021, 08:14:59 PM »
It looks like supply of the vaccine is the main issue holding things back

Do they announce vaccine deliveries in the UK?[1]It’s weird, at the start of the rollout they were all like ‘check us out with our gazillion vaccines whilst the EU have got fuck all. See how great Brexitlandia is?’ Now all the EU seem to have more than they know what to do with and have long since overtaken the UK. What happened?

 1. Like this

JamesTC

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1180 on: September 09, 2021, 08:39:59 PM »
We've sent 4 million unused Pfizer doses to Australia in a swap deal last week.

It seems demand is the constraint, not supply.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1181 on: September 10, 2021, 02:36:43 AM »
We've sent 4 million unused Pfizer doses to Australia in a swap deal last week.

It seems demand is the constraint, not supply.

Australia will give back 4 million later on - they'll expire before the UK can use them

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1182 on: September 10, 2021, 08:37:26 AM »
Yes you’re right of course but some things are such an obvious imbalance in risk/benefit analysis that they shouldn’t be allowed e.g going to clubs, festivals, restaurants and the like. Can anyone argue that those type of activities are worth the risk of adding to the damage?

Could you argue that they shouldn't be allowed? How do you define the risk? Surely it's on the person asking for the measure to be put in place to prove the risk?

---


The latest BBC More or Less Podcast has some info on whether the vaccine effect is waning based on Israel data. (they might be but it's probably not a big deal ).

Vaccine waning, hot dogs and Afghanistan
More or Less: Behind the Stats
How worried should we be about antibodies? Plus food that shortens life.


I thought it was funny for them to to say that the data is hard to read as in Israel, because if you go to hospital for any reason and have symptoms for covid, they will do a test. If you test positive, then you're counted as a hospitalized covid case, even if you were hospitalized for something else, like a a heart attack.

Due to this, it's hard to get an accurate sense of covid hospitalizations.

Hasn't this been the case all along? Even in the UK? If you have a positive test when in hospital, it's counted as a covid hospitalization? Same as if you die within 28 days of a positive test it's a covid death?

It's weird how this is now looked at, whereas before vaccines anyone who queried it was a covid denier.

It also said that Pfizer wanes faster than AZ so after about 5 months they are about the same, but Pfizer could continue to wane, making it worse than AZ.

UK 1 - US 0.


Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1183 on: September 10, 2021, 12:21:06 PM »
On More Or Less they mentioned, briefly, that when you are in hospital and you have covid symptoms they test you for covid, as one of the factors "muddying the waters" when you try to draw a link between covid hospital numbers and waning immunity.

It has always been the obvious case that some people who had covid were in hospital for other reasons that the covid, and indeed that some people caught covid in hospital. Saying that would not get you called a covid denier. Saying that and then going on to say that this proves covid conspiracy theories would get you called a covid denier.

Ref pfizer waning, they were talking about antibodies, which are only part of the protection given by the vaccine.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1184 on: September 12, 2021, 10:24:44 AM »
True.

A big chunk of people caught covid in hospital so it's not a trivial amount of people in the covid hospitalizations column who were in hospital for something else but tested positive while in there.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/26/40600-people-likely-caught-covid-while-hospital-inpatients-in-england

One in seven patients treated for Covid between 1 August 2020 and 21 March got it while in hospital

MojoJojo

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1185 on: September 12, 2021, 10:38:50 AM »
I'm not sure how that's relevant. It doesn't change that it kills people, as shown by the excess mortality numbers.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1186 on: September 12, 2021, 03:39:41 PM »
I think we’ve already established that no fucks are given about people dying. ‘We have to get back to normal!’ is the new ‘get Brexit done!’ it seems.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Cuellar

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1188 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:16 PM »
Get in. I've agreed to 'go to the darts' at Ally Pally on the 16th of Dec and I really hope it gets cancelled because I don't want to go.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1189 on: September 15, 2021, 02:19:15 PM »
I think we’ve already established that no fucks are given about people dying. ‘We have to get back to normal!’ is the new ‘get Brexit done!’ it seems.
Staff email from the boss for us today with the line "Returning to site needs to be a priority for all", so, yeah.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1190 on: September 15, 2021, 02:22:13 PM »
Get in. I've agreed to 'go to the darts' at Ally Pally on the 16th of Dec and I really hope it gets cancelled because I don't want to go.

I’m delighted the trip to the Montréal Grand Prix in June 2020 was similarly axed.

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1191 on: September 15, 2021, 03:19:07 PM »
Christmas is over. Forever.


Yes!

mothman

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1192 on: September 15, 2021, 08:21:08 PM »
I wouldn’t mind. Last Christmas it was by necessity just the four of us, and it was brilliant. My youngest being autistic means she hates crowds and a big family meal inevitably sees her go and eat in her own. But instead we all sat at the table together, she laughed and joked and joined in. I know I won’t see many more Christmases with my parents so should make the most of it, but that Christmas Day meal with my little girl there and enjoying herself is a memory to treasure and I’d like more. Apols for being soppy!

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1193 on: September 15, 2021, 11:18:30 PM »
That's beautiful

Cloud

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1194 on: September 16, 2021, 01:32:15 AM »
Christmas is over. Forever.


Yes!

Finally a positive side to COVID!

chveik

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1195 on: September 16, 2021, 02:13:45 AM »
I wouldn’t mind. Last Christmas it was by necessity just the four of us, and it was brilliant. My youngest being autistic means she hates crowds and a big family meal inevitably sees her go and eat in her own. But instead we all sat at the table together, she laughed and joked and joined in. I know I won’t see many more Christmases with my parents so should make the most of it, but that Christmas Day meal with my little girl there and enjoying herself is a memory to treasure and I’d like more. Apols for being soppy!

nah that's lovely

MojoJojo

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1196 on: September 16, 2021, 10:31:47 AM »
I know positivity isn't encouraged here, but new cases are dropping rapidly. 7 day average on the 5th was 38925, and on the 12th 29173, and the dailies since then seem to be continuing the trend. That's a 25% drop in a week. I'm not saying the case rate won't go up again, but considering that's with no restrictions it does look like we've reached the self limiting point with covid.

Lets hope it's low enough that the number in hospital starts going down...

Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1197 on: September 16, 2021, 12:11:31 PM »
I wouldn’t mind. Last Christmas it was by necessity just the four of us, and it was brilliant. My youngest being autistic means she hates crowds and a big family meal inevitably sees her go and eat in her own. But instead we all sat at the table together, she laughed and joked and joined in. I know I won’t see many more Christmases with my parents so should make the most of it, but that Christmas Day meal with my little girl there and enjoying herself is a memory to treasure and I’d like more. Apols for being soppy!


Also had a great Christmas in the immediate family bubble 👍

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1198 on: September 16, 2021, 12:37:51 PM »
I know positivity isn't encouraged here, but new cases are dropping rapidly. 7 day average on the 5th was 38925, and on the 12th 29173, and the dailies since then seem to be continuing the trend. That's a 25% drop in a week. I'm not saying the case rate won't go up again, but considering that's with no restrictions it does look like we've reached the self limiting point with covid.

Lets hope it's low enough that the number in hospital starts going down...

Have you read the report? They are saying the plateau in cases (taken over a longer period than 7 days) is a consequence of home working and people being outdoors more in their leisure time, and the numbers are still shocking, 1000+ dying a week even in summer.

We are entering autumn with more cases than we had last year, more people in hospital than this time last year and a series of conditions which encourage infection, along with a back to the office push which means more commuting and more people in the same buildings during worse weather.

The existing level of infections and their effect on hospitalisations which continue increasing are easily sufficient to break the NHS by December even if none of the above factors tell on the figures.

It isn't about positivity or negativity. I was dismayed to see how quickly cases rose even before the final measures were removed

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: The Final FUCKDOWN
« Reply #1199 on: September 16, 2021, 01:05:43 PM »
Scottish government considering bringing in the military to help the ambulance service.

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