Author Topic: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary  (Read 33420 times)

Schrodingers Cat

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #300 on: June 11, 2021, 02:13:46 PM »
Oh, that's that shitty TERF artist, isn't it?

Re the queer thread: I'm not sure if I count as queer. I'm bisexual but I don't identify as queer personally because queerness comes with a whole load of baggage and expectations. I'm too boring to be queer, for fuck's sake.Same (about trans rights, not Corbyn, although I've always been pro-trans rights). Also, why are they pro-Israel? Because Orthodox Jews don't like trans people or something? I thought Israel was supposed to be the LGBT haven of the Middle East?
mmm. i mean, bisexual identity is a queer identity for certain. it is a word with a lot of baggage tho and there can be disparity in the community especially when it comes to those who might have historically and personally negative connotations.

the thing you sad about being too 'boring'; i see it often that queerness is treated as something you have to be actively engaged in, rather than something you just are by virtue of being it. that's why you get a lot of the spiel of 'being x doesn't make you not queer enough' etc

if you're lgbt you're included in queerness (if you want to be)

I don't like the term queer either tbh. And its not really a term I particularly identify with. Like, I get that its been reclaimed and now has positive connotations, but, and this might be more about where I live, I still hear it used as a term of abuse and an insult. I'm happy for others to use the word about themselves and each other, but I'll admit always feel a moment of discomfort whenever I hear it (especially by cishet people). I get that I'm the one who needs to move with the times, but I also have a good couple of decades worth of internalised homophobia to work through, so... *shrugs*.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #301 on: June 11, 2021, 02:24:53 PM »
Adrian Mole was a seriously funny series. Might have to do my own reread soon.

Bizarre how they think being GC is comparable to being a race or a sexual orientation, rather than comparable to being a racist or sexist. It's a key aspect of half their arguments, really, "this person called me - a natal woman, and therefore oppressed - 'cis', and I called them an AGP fetishist pervert, and it's ME who is the intolerant one? Because someone slamming a GC person is exactly the same as someone slamming a trans person for being trans - in fact, it's worse, because I am a natal woman. Also #cisisaslur."

A lot of them really don't seem to understand what a slur even is. They think it means "term I don't like".

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #302 on: June 11, 2021, 03:35:43 PM »
https://twitter.com/jackdunc1/status/1403070889500057602?s=21

Plenty of this kind of stuff around. Even the England cricket team is anti Terf.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #303 on: June 11, 2021, 03:44:50 PM »
Just to echo what's been said here already, I think Linehan's done plenty of inadvertent good with his loony one-man campaign. A few years ago I would have described my attitude to the concept of being transgender as one of polite scepticism. These days i've no doubt what side of the "debate" I would place myself on, and it's thanks to the carrot-and-stick of Contrapoints and Graham Linehan. The former for explaining trans concepts to idiots like me, with intelligence and humour. The latter for being such a ghastly hectoring oaf that he lays bare the nastiness and hollowness of his whole cause. He's not clever or engaging enough to be remotely persuasive, but he's loud enough to make it all look very foolish.

The other thing that had an impact on me was Louis Theroux's doc on trans kids, which was a real eye-opener and shattered many of my lazy assumptions.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #304 on: June 11, 2021, 03:56:24 PM »
The one good thing about all this TERF bollocks is that there are some cis people out there - Neville Southall being a major example - who are becoming more aware of trans issues and actually taking the time to listen to trans people and think 'hang on a minute, why are these women so obsessed with them? What's with all the hate?' and making a conscious decision to be pro-trans. If you know what I mean.

idunnosomename

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #305 on: June 11, 2021, 03:59:38 PM »
aidan here point out one of his mighty brave feminists is basically only known for doing one extremely transphobic cartoon that got printed in the morning star.

https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets/status/1402975774269902849

if you're up for it, google image search Stella Parrett and with all the anti-mask, pro-Brexit, rapid anti-transgender stuff we pretty much have the british granny version of Ben Garrison.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #306 on: June 11, 2021, 04:01:04 PM »
had a peek at the mumsnets for the first time in yonks and obviously on the top trending threads is about parents losing the respect of their children

find it genuinely upsetting that these pricks pick fights with their own children and deprive themselves of connections with them over a fucking culture war. scum

also there's a thread seriously suggesting gender fascists are a persecuted people identity a la black people/jewish people/travellers
Mumsnet is IMMENSELY shitty about all three of those groups - not Jews as much, but there has been some pretty nasty antisemitism on there. It's not only transphobic, it's very racist. The black subforum is plagued by defensive white women and when the initial idea of a subforum for black women was suggested, there was a lot of opposition. Not to mention the constant sneering about 'wokeness', and claiming black women are overdefensive and looking for things to be offended about, and defending shit like golliwogs, and the extreme hatred of Serena Williams and Meghan Markle. Like, there's a really good thread on the black subforum about why black women often feel alienated by the feminist movement. What happened? Defensive white women show up and try to make the thread about trans people. It's got to the point where posters feel they have to post a disclaimer every time they start a thread on BMN.

And yes, I've seen Stella Parrett's work and it wouldn't have been out of place on a Britain First page. Talk about horseshoe theory. I knew she was pro-Brexit but didn't know she was anti-mask.

(I hate muggy weather. I have a fan next to my bed.)
This isn't entirely accurate, but it's certainly the case that this is what you'll overwhelmingly be exposed to in certain parts of it.

(That the transphobic posters are the most prolific, certainly in terms of topic generation, in those subforums is part of the reason why they look so completely captured. I think it's quite sad thing is that there remains a non-trivial undercurrent of discussion of actual issues, that's buried under so much cack.)
Feminism & Women's Rights is 99% trans bullshit. Of course, it leaks out into AIBU as well.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #307 on: June 11, 2021, 04:13:45 PM »
It really has. I'm in Kent and it's been very unpleasant. Fuck this weather.

Same here. Been cycling from office to office today then a beer in a friend's garden tonight where I predict I will get bitten to fuck.

Bit of a breeze now though. mmm

chveik

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #308 on: June 11, 2021, 04:16:03 PM »
had a peek at the mumsnets for the first time in yonks and obviously on the top trending threads is about parents losing the respect of their children

mumsnetter DESTROYS her child with her big terf logic. just horrible and pathetic.

very strange oscillation between the typical liberal 'debating people in the marketplace of ideas' and straighforward idiotic bigotry that directly contradicts it.

anyway best not depressing yourself with this. take care xx

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #309 on: June 11, 2021, 04:33:13 PM »
There was one the other day - 'I am a cis-woman whose now has a trans child. My daughter, born a boy, wants my support etc but I have strong gender critical opinions, etc, any advice, it's a very upsetting situation for us both'

One answer was 'TBH I couldn't get past the offensive term 'cis' in your post'

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #310 on: June 11, 2021, 06:09:35 PM »
If you had a trans kid, why would you ask MN for support?

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #311 on: June 11, 2021, 06:15:19 PM »
I think she wanted to be reassured that her gender critical views were right, and that her daughter knew nothing. Still, a year from now I bet she's pro-trans.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #312 on: June 11, 2021, 06:45:48 PM »
I think she wanted to be reassured that her gender critical views were right, and that her daughter knew nothing. Still, a year from now I bet she's pro-trans.
I hope so. I hope that she can see how happy her child is post-transition, let go of whatever she imagined having a son would be like, and embrace the fact that she has a daughter.

Mister Six

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #313 on: June 11, 2021, 08:22:37 PM »
In my mind, it all kicked off on my internet at around the time that Johnson defeated Jezza; before then I was always arguing about Labour antisemitism. I've also noticed a lot of terfy people have been loudly proclaiming their solidarity with Israel since it all kicked off over there again. Definitely a big overlap between terfs and pro-Israeli-apartheid folk. Even thinking about your favourite terfy columnists. Funny how there's a correlation.

Toxic and radicalised 90s liberalism? Turning a blind eye to the Palestinian plight and mocking trans people are two things that were common and even encouraged by otherwise right-on people in the 90s, and I think some of them are struggling against the realisation that they are, in fact, the baddies.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #314 on: June 11, 2021, 08:48:22 PM »
I wonder if the Mumsnet aunties are going to try and suggest conversion therapy, or something like it, to that poster. Or tell her her daughter is just mentally ill/pretending.

Barry Admin

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #315 on: June 12, 2021, 12:10:53 AM »
Glinner and nutmeg doing a sterling job of opposing their much hated "cancel culture" by... err.. digging through trans allies Twitter timelines for dodgy stuff they said 12 years ago. Because people never change, and words themselves - for that matter - never become more offensive over time, do they.

Hypocritical pair of utter plonkers.

Mister Six

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #316 on: June 12, 2021, 06:38:39 AM »
had a peek at the mumsnets for the first time in yonks and obviously on the top trending threads is about parents losing the respect of their children

Couldn't look at that for too long because it's too sad and frustrating, but my god, the woman who says she likes to laugh at her kids' frustration over trans issues because it makes them angry - how fucked is that? If your kids are upset by your views it's because they're afraid that there's a deep ideological gap that could damage your relationship. How heartless, self-absorbed and cruel do you have to be to take glee in exacerbating that?

God tho, yeah. I rewatched Contrapoints' video on terfism recently and it really is one of the best things she's ever done - extremely comprehensive and engaging. Here it is for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pTPuoGjQsI&vl=en

I've been putting off watching Contrapoints for years because her videos are so long and I'm pretty sure I agree with them already, but having watched a five-hour vid on why Chris Chibnall's Doctor Who sucks I figured I'd run out of excuses, so I checked this one out and am glad I did - it's great.

Zetetic

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #317 on: June 12, 2021, 08:29:57 AM »
[The Mumsnet subforum] Feminism & Women's Rights is 99% trans bullshit.

I think it's much closer to 80% by number of posts - which is still pretty miserable but it means that the other stuff is maybe 20x more common than your estimate, and this is tied up with a dynamic where there's a still some posters attempting to discuss other issues amongst a huge amount of transphobia posting.

(Non-trans-stuff threads tend to be shorter, I note, so by number of threads it's maybe even slightly less. But this also shows that trans-stuff threads tend to get more engagement and stay more visible.)

This is based off analysis in Jan 2021, using thread-level keyword-based topic identification (and prioritising trans-stuff over other topics, if a thread touched on multiple topics). I'm sure the proportion varies in response to what's in the news (looking further back you see can the impact of Ched Evans on sexual assault post volume for example) and I imagine the trend this year is towards more trans stuff and less everything else.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #318 on: June 12, 2021, 10:09:32 AM »
Quote
Hypocritical pair of utter plonkers.

(Makes plans to misinterpret this post in terms of the horrific meaning ‘plonker’ will have gained by the year 2033.)

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #319 on: June 12, 2021, 10:20:49 AM »
I think it's much closer to 80% by number of posts - which is still pretty miserable but it means that the other stuff is maybe 20x more common than your estimate, and this is tied up with a dynamic where there's a still some posters attempting to discuss other issues amongst a huge amount of transphobia posting.

(Non-trans-stuff threads tend to be shorter, I note, so by number of threads it's maybe even slightly less. But this also shows that trans-stuff threads tend to get more engagement and stay more visible.)

This is based off analysis in Jan 2021, using thread-level keyword-based topic identification (and prioritising trans-stuff over other topics, if a thread touched on multiple topics). I'm sure the proportion varies in response to what's in the news (looking further back you see can the impact of Ched Evans on sexual assault post volume for example) and I imagine the trend this year is towards more trans stuff and less everything else.
Not as bad as I thought but tbh it feels like more than that because the trans stuff just seeps out into other threads and forums. Even unrelated ones.

As for that woman laughing at her kids, she won’t be laughing when they break off contact. Be careful what you wish for, MN.

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #320 on: June 12, 2021, 10:27:17 AM »
This is based off analysis in Jan 2021, using thread-level keyword-based topic identification (and prioritising trans-stuff over other topics, if a thread touched on multiple topics). I'm sure the proportion varies in response to what's in the news (looking further back you see can the impact of Ched Evans on sexual assault post volume for example) and I imagine the trend this year is towards more trans stuff and less everything else.

Who did this analysis?

chveik

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #321 on: June 12, 2021, 10:31:47 AM »
Big Z, who else

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #322 on: June 12, 2021, 10:34:36 AM »
Well it's impressive. I'd have reckoned the proportion of trans threads would be slightly lower as they are mostly confined to the feminism section and there are loads of other subfora. I guess they are hardly used now, and Mumsnet has attracted more and more TERFs at the same time as possibly other members not interested in trans issues have left.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #323 on: June 12, 2021, 11:17:30 AM »


He obviously embraced the right a long time ago, but he's dropped all pretence of "the left are playing into the right's hands by supporting trans people" and is now unapologetically "the right are too tolerant and need to stop caving to the left's support of trans people". He really is just hatred in the shape of a person.

idunnosomename

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #324 on: June 12, 2021, 11:25:46 AM »
He sounds like a meglamanical fascist now. What with his fantasies of putting people in jail and forcing everyone to apologise to him.

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #325 on: June 12, 2021, 11:33:27 AM »
He's also posting about how, after Maya Forstater, it's time to "be a little braver", and we know what he means by that. Christ. He's a threat to so many people's safety. I really, really want his contempt of court thing to have consequences, because he is not going to stop hurting people until the means by which he hurts them is taken away from him.

ETA: Graham is now openly encouraging his followers to misgender trans women because it's "legally protected", even though it isn't. Beliefs held are not beliefs expressed. He is outright encouraging harassment. No other level to it. It's still a crime to harass someone. He's literally telling his readers to do something illegal. I wonder if Substack will tahkjahsdjfhdasfhhahahahhaha of course not because they openly profit from it. Fuck them.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 12:45:43 PM by sophie.pilbeam »

Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #326 on: June 12, 2021, 12:43:04 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong (having given it the employment law act already), but doesn't the judgement say absolutely fuck all about her views being worthy of respect, just that they're not bad enough in that context for her to have been sacked?

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #327 on: June 12, 2021, 12:45:24 PM »
embracing the same right wing that would have imprisoned his wife for aborting a foetus that would never survive outside the womb if she'd lived in Ireland at the time

so very feminist

This is what I mean about trans-hate being the easiest form of "feminism" to do. Only someone who had no understanding of feminism other than "go wimmins" would ally with or cheer on the right wing. Only someone who spent all his time in a trans-hating online bubble and never ever paid any attention to even White Straight Feminism would be ignorant of the continuing assault on the right to an abortion in the US and the outright criminalisation of it in Poland by conservative/traditional/"family values"/right-wing groups. Only someone who had absolutely no skin in the game at all when it comes to women's rights would urge his paying customers to push the ruling right-wing Conservative fuckerment to be even more bigoted than they already are.

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #328 on: June 12, 2021, 12:46:32 PM »
He's also posting about how, after Maya Forstater, it's time to "be a little braver", and we know what he means by that. Christ. He's a threat to so many people's safety. I really, really want his contempt of court thing to have consequences, because he is not going to stop hurting people until the means by which he hurts them is taken away from him.

ETA: Graham is now openly encouraging his followers to misgender trans women now that it's "legally protected", even though it isn't. Outright encouraging harassment. No other level to it. It's still a crime to harass someone. He's literally telling his readers to do something illegal. I wonder if Substack will tahkjahsdjfhdasfhhahahahhaha of course not because they openly profit from it. Fuck them.

Surely it's a crime. Encouraging people to break the law (and also lose their jobs to boot)

Dr Rock

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Re: Glin's Slide No. 9: TransIXclusionary
« Reply #329 on: June 12, 2021, 12:52:41 PM »
Quote
Incitement
Section 59 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 abolished the common law offence of incitement, with effect from 1 October 2008.

For offences committed before that date, incitement occurs when a person seeks to persuade another to commit a criminal offence. A person is guilty of incitement to commit an offence or offences if:

They incite another to do or cause to be done an act or acts which, if done, will involve the commission of an offence or offences by the other; and
They intend or believe that the other, if he acts as incited, shall or will do so with the fault required for the offence(s) R v Claydon [2006] 1 Cr. App. R. 20.

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