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Dawkins finds a new way to clown things up

Started by mjwilson, June 05, 2021, 10:06:55 PM

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Video Game Fan 2000

What united most of the new atheists at the time was obstinately believing that reading and interpretting books with overwhelming significance over many areas of human life for centuries was something just anyone could do and they wouldn't look at all absurd if they tried, because everyone else doing it was a charlatan.

Going into Biblical commentary armed only with Russell's Teaport is like writing a book on Shakespeare if you've only ever seen Blackadder II.

Zetetic

The God Delusion fails to take seriously that religions might confer substantial adaptive benefits on groups, instead focusing on dubious attempts to push that humans are simply susceptible to supernatural beliefs thanks to bad spandrels and the like (most of which in turn rests on misunderstanding the content of religious beliefs).

It seems to fairly accurate represent Dawkins' long-held views of religion and approach to trying to understand it.

touchingcloth

Quote from: AllisonSays on June 05, 2021, 11:22:01 PM
he is performing it to a global stage instead of in a post conference hotel bar.

Perfect. And instead of a few people going home and privately thinking that that Dawkins who seemed so good on stage is actually kind of a dick, it's thousands of people thinking it publicly.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on June 05, 2021, 11:28:45 PM
The God Delusion fails to take seriously that religions might confer substantial adaptive benefits on groups, instead focusing on dubious attempts to push that humans are simply susceptible to supernatural beliefs thanks to bad spandrels and the like (most of which in turn rests on misunderstanding the content of religious beliefs).

Yes. I don't think he has a more than a layman's notion of what "belief" would mean in order to speak about "false beliefs" in the way that he does.

I don't like Dennett but at least Dennett makes the same point coherently.

AllisonSays

For me I think that Dawkins as a scientist was inclined to dogmatism, or put more sympathetically to a desire for clarity snd rectitude, and the tendency of social media to encourage that mode of thought has fucked him up. Like, Metamorphosis isn't 'about' anything, it's a complicated and idiosyncratic expression of a feeling like what most art is. The desire on both left and right to read things monochromatic is one of the worst consequences of internet culture.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Zetetic on June 05, 2021, 11:28:45 PM
The God Delusion fails to take seriously that religions might confer substantial adaptive benefits on groups, instead focusing on dubious attempts to push that humans are simply susceptible to supernatural beliefs thanks to bad spandrels and the like (most of which in turn rests on misunderstanding the content of religious beliefs).

It seems to fairly accurate represent Dawkins' long-held views of religion and approach to trying to understand it.

I think the core of The God Delusion is correct in that religion is bollocks, but he approaches it with such swagger and lack of humility that it can't hope to preach to anyone but the converted. Something like Sagan's Demon-Haunted World does I think a better job of covering the same ground and from the same direction but without quite the same risk of making religious people feel insulted rather than examining their beliefs.

bgmnts

It's about a man who turns into a massive insect.

I thought South Park nailed Dawkins pretty effortlessly. He's just a bit of a knob.


chveik


Zetetic

Quote from: touchingcloth on June 05, 2021, 11:36:05 PM
I think the core of The God Delusion is correct in that religion is bollocks
You don't need to hold religious beliefs to take a serious interest in how their prevalence came about.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 05, 2021, 11:30:57 PM
I don't like Dennett but at least Dennett makes the same point coherently.

I've not read any of Dennett's books on religion, but at least it's in his philosophical bailiwick. Dawkins writes so well on biology  that this shite really reflects poorly on him. It's a bit like if Simone de Beauvoir had taken to twitter to say "quantum mechanics? What's all that about?"

Video Game Fan 2000


touchingcloth

Quote from: Zetetic on June 05, 2021, 11:46:59 PM
You don't need to hold religious beliefs to take a serious interest in how their prevalence came about.

Nope, and given his professional field you'd think he would have a serious interest in it. I remember The Selfish Gene goes into a lot of detail about cuckoos and other brood parasites, so his religion stuff is a bit like if he'd found a picture of a blackbird feeding a cuckoo chick and tweeted[nb]Arf.[/nb] it with a "get a load of this sucker" comment.

Video Game Fan 2000

Richard Dawkins saying King Kong is bad because its unrealistic for King Kong to have a breeding population of one - Drake frowning, waving his hand.
Literally anything from Paris: the Earth like a lobster, the moon is made of sums - Drake smiling, pointing.


Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Chedney Honks on June 05, 2021, 11:59:18 PM
You're too online.

Can you rephrase that by superimposing two Simpsons jokes together in a way that doesn't make sense?

Kankurette


Shoulders?-Stomach!

The main problem with the God Delusion reading as an atheist, it containing so little new. I like something of that sort to contain plenty of 'Ah, I've never considered it in that way' moments but instead the experience was 'Yep, yep, yep, oh that bit is a bit unnecessarily arrogant and slightly hypocritical too, yep, yep, what the fuck are Brights, what a fuck awful idea, and we' re done'.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 05, 2021, 10:57:44 PM
But seriously I don't think the man understands things the same way everyone else does. His 'philosophical' books about the beautiful and the sublime in nature read like something written by a nineteenth century agriculture savant. It's just too much to be completely affected.

I think you are mostly right; my brain has mandated me to think of this...



Whenever I see his name now; which is a shame as at his foundation I think he is good person.  He did grow up in the colonies and almost certainly had a wet nurse; he's absolutely got some of that blue blood madness that seems to permeant with these landed gentry types but I do think he has at least tried to be progressive when most of this ilk is more interested in buttoning down hatches and defending their interests.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 06, 2021, 09:53:13 AM
The main problem with the God Delusion reading as an atheist, it containing so little new. I like something of that sort to contain plenty of 'Ah, I've never considered it in that way' moments but instead the experience was 'Yep, yep, yep, oh that bit is a bit unnecessarily arrogant and slightly hypocritical too, yep, yep, what the fuck are Brights, what a fuck awful idea, and we' re done'.

God Delusion was purposely written for comprehension I always thought; but yeah this is pretty much my experience with it.

Johnny Yesno


dissolute ocelot

He reminds me of those people (mostly men but not all) who say "I don't read fiction, I don't see the point." As though all fiction must be reducible to something you can summarise in a paragraph, so why read a whole story.

It's an allegory of people becoming so obsessed with Twitter they can no longer relate to their family and friends.


Zetetic

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on June 06, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
It's an allegory of people becoming so obsessed with Twitter they can no longer relate to their family and friends.
QuoteAls Gregor Samsa eines Morgens aus unruhigen Träumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem Bett zu Bananen geworden.


sevendaughters

A petard delivered across Oxford.

@PhilipPullman
Replying to
@RichardDawkins
Richard, you once coined the excellent phrase 'The argument from personal incredulity': I can't believe this, so it's not true. Aren't you providing an example of that very thing? 'I don't get it, so everyone else is wrong.'


chveik

ugh keep this stuff private you little creeps

Shoulders?-Stomach!

It's a shame that because of his addiction to celebrity that truly great works of popular science like The Greatest Show On Earth, which methodically makes the case for evolution and in doing so dismantles creationist theory without needing to even needing to raise its voice will be consigned to the far reaches of some dusty Library because it is Dawkins the backwards joyless nonce.

It is easy since Dawkins became a social media figure to pass over decades of work. He is a stupid twat, totally responsible for jeopardising all that, but so are those who think that's all he's ever been about.

madhair60

Quote from: chveik on June 06, 2021, 02:45:46 PM
ugh keep this stuff private you little creeps

its literally public you griffin

edit: sorry for calling you a griffin. i don't even really know what it means. mythological bird thing, what? how does that relate to the situation. nonsense.

Bazooka

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 06, 2021, 03:09:22 PM
It's a shame that because of his addiction to celebrity that truly great works of popular science like The Greatest Show On Earth, which methodically makes the case for evolution and in doing so dismantles creationist theory without needing to even needing to raise its voice will be consigned to the far reaches of some dusty Library because it is Dawkins the backwards joyless nonce.

It is easy since Dawkins became a social media figure to pass over decades of work. He is a stupid twat, totally responsible for jeopardising all that, but so are those who think that's all he's ever been about.

You are being extreme, most people in the world don't care about Twitter and don't need to in order read and enjoy his works. He is no worse than anyone else on Twitter, but at his age he should stay off it.