When Harry Met Sally

[Keebleman]

Just seen this, 32 years late.  Didn't really like it, in part for reasons I was anticipating, such as an excess of cuteness, an air of Woody Allen-lite, that fake orgasm scene (the 'I'll have what she's having line' wasn't even new at the time: Round Midnight of all films had used it a couple of years before, albeit prompted by someone collapsing from drink rather than pretending to cum, and I doubt it was new to that) and Meg Ryan.

But it was Billy Crystal that really made it a chore to watch.  Not only was the Harry character completely obnoxious but Crystal's performance was really stiff.  He may have been going for a 'deadpan' comedy style, but the effect was more Syd Little than Buster Keaton.

Plus points: I liked those interviews with long-married couples that punctuate the film, I was interested to learn that the expression 'high maintenance' with regards to a potential mate comes from  here, and the movie did look good.

[C_Larence]

The New Year's Eve scene alone puts this in the rom-com pantheon.

[MojoJojo]

I like it, it's definitely a rom com to try for those who don't normally like rom coms.

Billy Crystal's character is supposed to be obnoxious, but you're supposed to find him entertaining to watch. If you don't, then you're not going to enjoy the film.

The main problem with diner scene, apart from it being parodied to death, is it really doesn't make sense for Meg Ryan's character to do it. When I watched it for the first time a couple of years ago I expected Billy to push her into it or something, but she does it almost unprompted.

[Icehaven]

I haven't seen it for years, does it have a bit where they both bring a friend for each other on a double date but the friends end up getting together? And one of them is Carrie Fisher? Or is that another film? Either way I think I was too young and naive when I watched it because I couldn't understand how that happened.

[Icehaven]

Plus points: I liked those interviews with long-married couples that punctuate the film,

Was just reading the Wikipedia entry to remind myself of the plot, and saw this bombshell:

The film contains several interlaced and interspersed segments where fictitious older married couples narrate to the camera their stories of how they met.

Next they'll be saying those outtakes at the end of Liar Liar were scripted.

[MojoJojo]

I haven't seen it for years, does it have a bit where they both bring a friend for each other on a double date but the friends end up getting together? And one of them is Carrie Fisher? Or is that another film? Either way I think I was too young and naive when I watched it because I couldn't understand how that happened.

Yes. I always forget Carrie Fisher is in it and are then surprised when I'm reminded. She's one of the main supporting roles - although it's so focussed on H&S that's still a fairly minor role.

[the science eel]

That famous line is impeccably delivered - that's why it's memorable. The rest of the scene is neither convincing nor entertaining.

And Ryan doesn't come across as any more likeable than Crystal - so who exactly are you rooting (fnarr fnarr) for?

I agree with the comments about the i/views with the elderly couples - they're aces. Don't matter that they're scripted.

[Dex Sawash]

I already disliked Crystal when this film was new

[dead-ced-dead]

It's basically a perfect movie for me. I've seen it dozens of times and I'm sure I'll see it dozens more times.

[Keebleman]

Was just reading the Wikipedia entry to remind myself of the plot, and saw this bombshell:

Next they'll be saying those outtakes at the end of Liar Liar were scripted.

I knew the interviews were fictional!  If that expertly performed one where the man and woman constantly talk over each other hadn't been enough to give it away, the fact that none of the people credited had the same surname would have done.

Just remembered another detail: there's a scene with a karaoke machine but the word 'karaoke' isn't used.  Harry calls it a singing machine.  I think I first heard the word karaoke in Michael Palin's Around the World in 80 Days which was around the same time as this film.

[Largely Babble]

That famous line is impeccably delivered - that's why it's memorable.

By director Rob Reiner's mum!
Anyway, asides from that scene which is over-played and over-parodied, I would put this down as a perfect film. It's just two people talking across three acts and yet you get entire lives delivered.
I would also say it's an anti-rom-com to a certain extent. Everything is thrown in the way of the trad comedy. The meeting isn't cute. They don't suit each other. He's not conventionally attractive (although men get away with this in Hollywood films a lot and I think it would also work really well if she wasn't Hollywood beautiful too).
I can see why it's not for everyone though and it certainly has its problems nowadays. It's very heteronormative and quite a lot of his behaviour in the first third at the time felt "He's just a bloke..." but now feels "He's a gaslighting nasty piece of work." I would argue he gets his comeuppance in acts two and three for that though, but it's still a bit glorified.
Anyway. Even if you don't like it, I think upon close examination the difference between this and, say some of Nora Ephron's other more Hollywood scripts like Sleepless in Seattle, it stands out as something different.

[Smeraldina Rima]

About a month ago I was trying to find the bit where they sing "The Surrey With the Fringe on Top", but now I can't remember why.

[Keebleman]

About a month ago I was trying to find the bit where they sing "The Surrey With the Fringe on Top", but now I can't remember why.

To see if they used the word 'karaoke'?

They do correctly state it's from Oklahoma.  The evening I watched it I had been with a friend while he did a live Facebook broadcast from his living room, playing various standards on the piano.  (Potential viewership: 2 billion.  Actual viewership: 3.)  The Surrey... was one of the songs he did and he couldn't recall which musical it came from.  I suggested Carousel but he overruled me with South Pacific.

[Smeraldina Rima]

I might have thought of the scene after watching this similar scene from the musical "Call me Madam", which I'd looked up to hear the song "It's a Lovely Day Today" after listening to Elmo Hope's interpretation for piano: It's a Lovely Day Today

But it could have been after watching this clip of Jonathan Richman and Julia Sweeney performing "Just Because I'm Irish" on Conan O'Brien, because it reminded me of the Moldy Peaches and then I might have thought no no ah the true precursor to the MPs song "Anyone Else But You" is Harry and Sally singing "The Surrey with the Fringe on Top".

[dissolute ocelot]

I think it's a great film even though Billy Crystal isn't a great actor - I certainly wouldn't defend City Slickers 1 or 2, in which he does a similar performance to much lesser effect. But they part suits him, and both he and Ryan have never been so believable as members of the human race. It's very believable and somewhat realistic, both as romcom and portrayal of friendship, aside from the orgasm scene which is only a couple of minutes. Lots of wonderful low-key moments.

I wonder how the film's reputation would have been if they went through with the alternative ending

Spoiler alert

to not have them get together at the end. I doubt it would be on a list of great romcoms. You can argue it would be a better film if it didn't depend on a sudden midnight dash into each others arms and instead affirmed the value of male-female friendship without sex

[close]

. But would it be as enjoyable?

[Brundle-Fly]

The Rule Of Three podcast discusses it and the film has really gone up in my estimation since. I'm in the minority here but I think Billy Crystal is great in the film, as is Meg Ryan, although I'm aware Crystal is a 'Marmite' actor. And Harry is meant to be an asshole.

BTW. I wonder if the 'orgasm' scene is the U.S. equivalent of Del Boy Falling Through The Bar?

[Dex Sawash]

To see if they used the word 'karaoke'?

They do correctly state it's from Oklahoma.  The evening I watched it I had been with a friend while he did a live Facebook broadcast from his living room, playing various standards on the piano.  (Potential viewership: 2 billion.  Actual viewership: 3.)  The Surrey... was one of the songs he did and he couldn't recall which musical it came from.  I suggested Carousel but he overruled me with South Pacific.

Music Man ffs

[Bob-Kate]

I adore it.

A few years ago, in the early days of Twitter I'd watched it again for the first time in years, prompting me to tweet something like: "When Harry Met Sally" is a great film, would be 10/10 if Billy Crystal was sexy".

Got a reply from @billycrystal saying thanks, or something like that. Thankfully it was a fan account not the unsexy star himself.

Anyway, I do stand by my opinion.

[Icehaven]

When Harold Met Salold.

[popcorn]

It's a wonderful film, I think both leads are incredibly funny and charming and I think it says a lot about human relationships without crossing the line into sentimentalism or cutesiness. I think some of it is truly ingenious - the bit where Harry recognises Sally's date in the airport, for example.

I think I only think there's one thing I dislike about it - when Harry sees his ex, and she comes over. She didn't need to be in the film, we should just have had had him see her and talk about her, keep her as an off-camera character. That way it remains a sort of focused four-character play.

I sort of ruined the film for myself by recommending a close female friend of mine watch it. She'd never seen it and sent me a message saying how much she loved it. A few months later, when she heard I'd started a relationship with someone, she had her friend drive her 4 hours to my flat so she could confess her feelings for me. I'm a fucking moron and I'll never be able to separate the film from that whole saga now. It didn't end as well as it does in the film.

[Icehaven]

I sort of ruined the film for myself by recommending a close female friend of mine watch it. She'd never seen it and sent me a message saying how much she loved it. A few months later, when she heard I'd started a relationship with someone, she had her friend drive her 4 hours to my flat so she could confess her feelings for me. I'm a fucking moron and I'll never be able to separate the film from that whole saga now. It didn't end as well as it does in the film.

Oh god, did she think you'd recommended it to her because you were trying to tell her you were in love with her? Awkward.

[Largely Babble]

I'm now cringing about the time I went round to a friend of mine's house when I was about 15, with whom I was secretly in love, and she kept playing I Think I Love You (The B52s cover) over and over again and dancing/acting it out in front of me. I was growing in confidence she was trying to tell me something before she suddenly confessed the night previously she'd lost her virginity to her brother's friend and she was in love with him. I'm sure she could see my face fall.

[Brundle-Fly]

I'm now cringing about the time I went round to a friend of mine's house when I was about 15, with whom I was secretly in love, and she kept playing I Think I Love You (The B52s cover) over and over again and dancing/acting it out in front of me. I was growing in confidence she was trying to tell me something before she suddenly confessed the night previously she'd lost her virginity to her brother's friend and she was in love with him. I'm sure she could see my face fall.

Dodged a bullet there,

[Cerys]

I don't tend to like romcoms, but this one I love.  Mind you, I'd like to see a cut in which it turns out that Harry does have a brain tumour after all.

[touchingcloth]

It's a wonderful film, I think both leads are incredibly funny and charming and I think it says a lot about human relationships without crossing the line into sentimentalism or cutesiness. I think some of it is truly ingenious - the bit where Harry recognises Sally's date in the airport, for example.

I think I only think there's one thing I dislike about it - when Harry sees his ex, and she comes over. She didn't need to be in the film, we should just have had had him see her and talk about her, keep her as an off-camera character. That way it remains a sort of focused four-character play.

I think it's narratively important that she sees rather than only being seen by him, because he's caught red-handed very uncoolly singing Surrey With The Fringe On Top, and that causes a minor internal crisis for him which pays off well in the stupid wagon wheel coffee table scene.

About a month ago I was trying to find the bit where they sing "The Surrey With the Fringe on Top", but now I can't remember why.

I was trying to find it just last night, thanks to watching an episode of Frasier where one of the scene change cards read "Chicks and ducks and geese better scurry..."

[Smeraldina Rima]

Singing with someone new in a shop seems like quite a power move way to bump into an ex tbh. But not in those days, very foolish then.

I've checked the musical and the singer doesn't bob up and down with his knees and have his hand on his hip. That was a Billy invention.

In the resulting wagon wheel coffee table bit, the I WAS BEING NICE! part is like F.R.I.E.N.D.S.

AND....Preview.

AND...Post.