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March 28, 2024, 03:59:49 PM

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That fucking thing in super mario 64

Started by Fry, June 07, 2021, 07:05:30 AM

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Fry

where if you are standing still you can change direction 180° on the spot but if you have even a tiny little bit of momentum the little fat cunt does a little swooping semi circle like a shitty tesco trolly turning around that MAKES YOU FALL OFF THE FUCKING PLATFORM AND SENDS YOU SLIDING BACK DOWN TO THE FUCKING BOTTOM OF THAT FUCKING SUNKEN SHIP

madhair60


Fry

I never had an N64 so this is my first time playing it but I am underwhelmed tbh. Not as good as Crash, whose camera never made me want to jump off a cliff.

Jerzy Bondov


Sonny_Jim

Same as Goldeneye, innit.  Everyone has these rose coloured spectacles about how awesome they were, but if you play them nowadays you're like 'hmm, this has obviously had a lot of work put into it, but fuck me it feels janky'.

SM64 was probably the first '3D platformer'[nb]Crash always felt a bit more 2D to me[/nb] that got most of it right, especially when you compare it to other stuff that was out at the time like Jumping Flash

Bazooka

Quote from: Sonny_Jim on June 07, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
Same as Goldeneye, innit.  Everyone has these rose coloured spectacles about how awesome they were, but if you play them nowadays you're like 'hmm, this has obviously had a lot of work put into it, but fuck me it feels janky'.

SM64 was probably the first '3D platformer'[nb]Crash always felt a bit more 2D to me[/nb] that got most of it right, especially when you compare it to other stuff that was out at the time like Jumping Flash

Goldeneye aged badly even by the end of the N64, especially once Perfect Dark arrived. Mario 64 was made even better with the DS release using a tooth pick to control everything.

Fry

There are parts where there is like a straight, thin platform. However the default camera position means it is facing in a diagonal direction. On the switch it's incredibly frustrating to run with any speed on these parts because you're trying to keep the analogue stick steady in an unnatural position. I kept thinking how awkwardly it was designed. Then I remembered that the n64 countroller's analogue stick has a kind of octogon around the outside and being able to slot your stick into one of the corners of that shape would have made it a lot easier and more intuitive to speed through those parts. Lazy port.

Jerzy Bondov

Yes. When I started on Mario 3D World after finishing Odyssey I was a put off by the way you can only run in 8 directions. Ohhhh it's not as fluid, I griped, inwardly, like a prick. But actually it works perfectly with the level design and it's the best 3D Mario game ever made.

Garam


peanutbutter

Was never a fan of 3D mario games tbh but even as an 8 year old the first time  I played it I realised it was fairly ridiculous to be comparing it to Crash, which is a very incremental update on 2D platformers.

Quote from: Bazooka on June 07, 2021, 08:41:31 AM
Goldeneye aged badly even by the end of the N64, especially once Perfect Dark arrived. Mario 64 was made even better with the DS release using a tooth pick to control everything.
I thought Perfect Dark's framerate offset most of the gains?

RE: the toothpick, isn't Mario 64 DS limited to 8 directions regardless of which input approach you use? Seems like the toothpick would be more frustrating than the d-pad in that situation.

Kelvin

The thin platforms are a bit of a ballache. I wonder if the idea was that it showed off the analogue sticks sensitivity and you were meant to walk, creep, or crawl along those bits?

Its mostly fine if you just switch the camera to Mario mode, so it locks behind him, though.

As I said in the 3D Allstars thread, the enduring brilliance of Mario 64 isn't in it's (dated) camera or controls, but in it's superb level design: those compact little sandpits with multiple routes, shortcuts and exploits. Every star obtainable within a couple of minutes. There's almost no fat on the game - certainly not compared to any subsequent mainline 3D Mario (assuming Bowser's Fury isn't mainline). I just think that most of the levels are brilliant, even now.


madhair60

Quote from: Garam on June 07, 2021, 11:09:52 AM
This is a pathetic post

it's an amazing post and I absolutely loved typing and sending it

druss

Possibly my greatest gaming achievement was getting 120 stars before the days where you could just look everything up on the internet.

GoblinAhFuckScary

Quote from: Bazooka on June 07, 2021, 08:41:31 AM
Goldeneye aged badly even by the end of the N64, especially once Perfect Dark arrived. Mario 64 was made even better with the DS release using a tooth pick to control everything.

goldeneye is still fun if you use an actual n64 controller and NO other controller it will fucking not work

Fry

Quote from: peanutbutter on June 07, 2021, 11:34:07 AM
Was never a fan of 3D mario games tbh but even as an 8 year old the first time  I played it I realised it was fairly ridiculous to be comparing it to Crash, which is a very incremental update on 2D platformers.

For most of the actual platforming on M64, you're spending the majority of your time wrestling with the camera to put it either directly behind or to the side of Mario, otherwise trying to judge distances between platforms or even making Mario move in the direction you want becomes an actual ballache. All Crash did was make it so the game handles that part for you.

Quote from: Kelvin on June 07, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
As I said in the 3D Allstars thread, the enduring brilliance of Mario 64 isn't in it's (dated) camera or controls, but in it's superb level design: those compact little sandpits with multiple routes, shortcuts and exploits. Every star obtainable within a couple of minutes. There's almost no fat on the game - certainly not compared to any subsequent mainline 3D Mario (assuming Bowser's Fury isn't mainline). I just think that most of the levels are brilliant, even now.

This is very much true. Expertly judged as well. Each clue gives just enough of a hint where its not immediately obvious what to do, but you can reason it out faily well so you're not spending 20 minutes wondering around lost before looking at a guide.

Lemming

It's a solid game but, as someone who played the likes of Crash and Tomb Raider[nb]both imperfect comparisons to SM64, obviously, but I think it's fair to group them all together under the banner of "early 3D platformer from 1996"[/nb] first, the fact that you're running through the same few levels over and over always turned me off. Obviously there's a lot to find in each map and getting different stars can take you on totally different routes, but I preferred the immediate sense of progression in other platformers, where beating a level would take you somewhere entirely new.

As N64 games go, it's definitely one of the better ones, and probably the one that's closest to being deserving of its legacy (FUCK OCARINA OF TIME).

St_Eddie

Quote from: Sonny_Jim on June 07, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
SM64 was probably the first '3D platformer'[nb]Crash always felt a bit more 2D to me[/nb] that got most of it right, especially when you compare it to other stuff that was out at the time like Jumping Flash

Jumping Flash is a strange game to choose in order to make your point, considering that it's one of the early 3D platformers to get moving around in a 3D space, jumping from platform to platform, right.  The way the game had the player use their shadow to judge the distance between platforms was a brilliant bit of game design.

Citing some god awful piece of dreck like Bubsy 3D would have better illustrated your point, especially considering that it released the same year as Mario 64.

Kelvin

#17
Quote from: Fry on June 07, 2021, 01:29:02 PM
For most of the actual platforming on M64, you're spending the majority of your time wrestling with the camera to put it either directly behind or to the side of Mario, otherwise trying to judge distances between platforms or even making Mario move in the direction you want becomes an actual ballache. All Crash did was make it so the game handles that part for you.

You shouldn't ever be trying to get the camera "to the side" of Mario, really. It's simply not designed to be played that way. Lakitu Cam gives you better spatial awareness, Mario Cam helps you navigate the trickier (smaller, thinner) platforms. Most fiddlier movement is meant to be done from behind Mario, with the entire Mario Cam mode designed to lock it in that position. You'll probably find it (relatively) easier to play if you use Lakitu Cam for the general exploration, and then switch to Mario Cam (zoomed out, obviously), to navigate smaller / thinner ledges or platforms.

Cold Meat Platter

I liked how you could jump in this one. Daft how you couldn't jump at all before.

madhair60

Quote from: Kelvin on June 07, 2021, 06:17:38 PM
Lakitu Cam gives you better spatial awareness, Mario Cam helps you navigate the trickier (smaller, thinner) platforms. Most fiddlier movement is meant to be done from behind Mario, with the entire Mario Cam mode designed to lock it in that position. You'll probably find it (relatively) easier to play if you use Lakitu Cam for the general exploration, and then switch to Mario Cam (zoomed out, obviously), to navigate smaller / thinner ledges or platforms.

See, this is not a Mario game. This should never have been a Mario game. There is nothing gameplay-wise in Mario 64 that you can trace back to the previous Mario games and go, yes, this is an evolution of this, a refinement.

The game's reception will always baffle me. Until I die. Well, probably before that, because I'll stop liking games when I'm about 40 like everyone else does I expect.

Bazooka

Quote from: Lemming on June 07, 2021, 05:41:04 PM

(FUCK OCARINA OF TIME).

It's ok madhair you can come out of purgatory, Lemming has claimed the crown of worst opinions.

Kelvin

Quote from: madhair60 on June 07, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
See, this is not a Mario game. This should never have been a Mario game. There is nothing gameplay-wise in Mario 64 that you can trace back to the previous Mario games and go, yes, this is an evolution of this, a refinement.

Of course there is, Madders. The joy of movement, the power-ups, and sense of exploration. Bowser's stages are still fairly linear platforming gauntlets. Is it a direct translation? No. But I'd argue that's why it's so remarkable; they took the spirit of the 2D games and then created a completely new genre, on a 3D plane, and almost completely nailed it on their first try. Games like Crash have a more direct lineage from 2D games, of course, but Mario 64 is a revolution built on the same principles. That something so unprecedented feels so fully formed is remarkable.

Chedney Honks

Do you know what's bad?

Any game you like.

Cold Meat Platter


Beagle 2

I think it's both fucking great and also total bollocks so I'm sitting on the fence but doing it in a sweary way to try and make it sound like a less bland take.

I played through it again recently and really enjoyed it but a lot of that was soaking in the 90s vibes. In retrospect I'm glad they didn't tart it up because I enjoyed being back there again. It's quite a creepy game.

The controls are absolute shebs but that's sort of the game, fighting against them.

It's a me the super Mario plumbers.

Cold Meat Platter

The music for the watery bit was quite good.
The camera wasn't so shit that I killed myself
Exploring things
boing

weird atmosphere



Sonny_Jim

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 07, 2021, 05:41:27 PM
Jumping Flash is a strange game to choose in order to make your point,
That is my point entirely, we had weird stuff like Jumping Flash and 2D-but-with-3D-graphics stuff like Crash.  Sure there were other 3rd person 3D platformers, but they were almost universally shit.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Fry on June 07, 2021, 01:29:02 PM
For most of the actual platforming on M64, you're spending the majority of your time wrestling with the camera to put it either directly behind or to the side of Mario, otherwise trying to judge distances between platforms or even making Mario move in the direction you want becomes an actual ballache. All Crash did was make it so the game handles that part for you.


This is a frustration, however compared to other attempts to take 2d platformers and 3dalize them (e.g. Sonic) it does do it well and tends to think in 3 dimensional space rather than just being a forced-perspective to give the illusion of 3d.

Mario Galaxy on the wii was probably a good example of them doing something a bit different and it being immediately intuitive but I imagine a lot of lessons were learned from Mario 3d and they'd ironed out all the kinks of 3d space, so it was just the wii controls they had to do, which they did well.

druss

You couldn't get away with the homophobia in the boss levels today.

Johnny Textface

I spent hours of my youth playing SMB on my mates NES. I never played past a couple of levels of SM64. Technically it was an incredible achievement for the time, just wasn't my bag. I would argue that Bionic Commando on the NES was a better "game". Loved that.