Author Topic: The Media in the UK are ushering in a new Nationalism of their own accord  (Read 1928 times)

Are the sodding culture wars ever going to end?

TrenterPercenter

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Are the sodding culture wars ever going to end?

No.  That is the whole point they can never end; there is a symbiotic relationship between two sides of the media that generate income from it, which suits a number of people in different ways.

It's part of the attention economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy

It's all part of getting ready for when Queenie passes away, they've got to performativly express their grief now as a buildup to when it actually happens and no-one gives a fuck about charlie.

In other news, even Australia's education minister weighed in on it, after watching 12,000 jobs go down that shitter. That is how important this is to these shitheads 

TrenterPercenter

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There is something that is primal and instinctive about nationalism due to the fact it reduces information down to symbols and easy to conceptualise thoughts (people, flags, the notion of a righteous nation).  It is therefore a cheap and easy way for celebrities to show "solidarity" and a shared emotional space with viewers.  It's cheap, it's nasty but it's always been there; these sycophants know that the Tories will be in power for the foreseeable so what interest would they have in going against the grain and risking cushy jobs. 

Early morning; TV, new bulletins that are repeated daily are perfect for pushing this kind of dirge - very few people actually watch them; they are on in the background to create the form of company making the insidious adoption of their views more likely.

Janie Jones

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...she dried that last tear before screeching in her Loose Woman way ...

It’s good that you are open about your misogyny, I honestly prefer it to the performative pretence that this forum doesn’t just see women as wank fodder or screeching harridans.

She's turned her husband's misfortune into a cynical money making opportunity

Yes doing what you’re trained to do and deemed good at, and getting paid for it so you can put food on the table for your family, not to mention looking after your disabled spouse, is cynical money making.

Paul Calf

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Hang on, why is this fire still burning? I chucked loads of petrol on it!


There is no more 'royalism' than there has been before, CaB would have you believe you can't walk outside for tripping over a rope winching up the Union Jack.

I don't know about the general populace but it is definitely more prevalent in the media. Politicians getting slated if they don't have a Union Jack in their office during their Zoom interview. People being castigated for not particularly caring about Prince Phillip dying. I think there is a bit of an effect of Brexit in that our exceptionalism seems to have been fed and grown bigger than it has ever been before

TrenterPercenter

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I don't know about the general populace but it is definitely more prevalent in the media. Politicians getting slated if they don't have a Union Jack in their office during their Zoom interview. People being castigated for not particularly caring about Prince Phillip dying. I think there is a bit of an effect of Brexit in that our exceptionalism seems to have been fed and grown bigger than it has ever been before

Yep it's basically Brexit and the recent death of 2nd most longstanding Monarch.  It's all been quite easy to ignore if people wanted too.

Yep it's basically Brexit and the recent death of 2nd most longstanding Monarch.  It's all been quite easy to ignore if people wanted too.
It’s why I quit social media. The only way I can deal with it is to switch off. It’s all meaningless bullshit.

Yes doing what you’re trained to do and deemed good at, and getting paid for it so you can put food on the table for your family, not to mention looking after your disabled spouse, is cynical money making.

She's a TV presenter on £500k/year, married to a political lobbyist. She's hardly Kerry Katona setting up an Onlyfans to keep the bailiffs from the door.

I agree with the people on here questioning whether anything has changed of late.

As someone who isn't British, I think the rubicon was crossed during that summer when we had the Olympics, the football, and a royal wedding. Prior to that,  flag waving was mostly reserved for Norn Iron huns and English football fans in the immediate run-up to matches. Then that summer happened and suddenly everyone was crowing about British people winning medals and you couldn't fucking move for flegs.

Before that. the Northern Ireland obsession with flags on post offices came across as weird. Now you have politicians being yelled at for not having them in their offices. It was also the start of the Guardian going on and on about progressive patriotism.

British patriotism is like incest: You can't do it safely or in a nice fashion, you have to have a taboo against it.The second that taboo is gone it's all dad's showering with their daughters a brothers, sibling 69ing on the kitchen table, and people complaining about the BBC not playing the national anthem at the end of the News.

On paper it should be possible for a close knit family to get each other off and for people to derive some self-esteem from the progressive accomplishments of past Westminster governments but in practice it's all inbred sister-daughters and people getting aggrieved over the use of the term "bloody Sunday" because the Irish started it.

Fambo Number Mive

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I don't know about patriotism in other countries, but it does seem ironic that the people who are most into flag-shaggery and other symbols of patriotism are the ones who support policies which makes it harder to be proud of England. It's like the worse life gets in England, the more people cling to shouting about flags and pictures of the Queen. Maybe the amount of flags displayed by ministers should be a guide to how bad things are for the average non-gammon England resident.

(No idea if this is true for Wales, Scotland and NI).


There's definitely a change over the years. In the 80s and 90s, the tabloids were often quite rude to the royal family, even the Queen, like the Annus Horribilis of 1992 or after Diana's death. Even in 2008, the Daily Express was claiming Philip murdered Diana (Express link). Now the press may pick on a few of the peripheral royals, but the Queen is untouchable. Probably in part because she'll be dead soon.

Thatcher was into a bit of flag waving, but neither Edward Heath nor John Major seemed that bothered, and even David Cameron was nothing like May and Boris (Heath, Major, and Cameron were all fighting Europhobes and trying to be at least semi-enthusiastic about the EU). May tried her best to be anti-immigrant and pro-British but fundamentally wasn't convincing at least in the second half of that, and in a way American Boris isn't really convincing as a British figurehead either. But they are trying to whip up Brexitty hate nonetheless, relying on their authentically gammon cohorts.

Culture wars are definitely being used as an electoral tactic to a greater now than under Cameron. Cameron started out trying to be cool with the gays and hug hoodies and spreading the love, but Boris has always mocked everyone. With Starmer going for the right and the Tories failing at fiscal probity or low taxes or being pro-business, we're going to see a mighty shouting match with lots of name-calling and no real policy differences.

I don't know about patriotism in other countries, but it does seem ironic that the people who are most into flag-shaggery and other symbols of patriotism are the ones who support policies which makes it harder to be proud of England. It's like the worse life gets in England, the more people cling to shouting about flags and pictures of the Queen. Maybe the amount of flags displayed by ministers should be a guide to how bad things are for the average non-gammon England resident.

(No idea if this is true for Wales, Scotland and NI).



But that's the trick, isn't it? It's like kicking a cat to death whilst wearing an RSPCA uniform. People see you and think "Well, he can't be hurting that cat, he's RSPCA. He loves animals. It must be a kindness kicking. Or maybe the cat's a bastard and needs kicking to death." If anyone dares question you, you can say "Oh, don't like the RSPCA do you not? Don't give a shit about the wellbeing of animals? Look at this cunt, everyone; he hates animals. He wants them to suffer."

Exactly that, except that everyone outside of Britain seems to be aware of the 500 years of blood-soaked savagery meted out by lunatics in RSPCA uniforms while everyone inside Britain refuses to look any further than RSPCA adverts.

TrenterPercenter

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One of the problems here is that England doesn't really have idea of how to do good patriotism and to my mind there are a few reasons; the class system essentially means that a sense of national belonging is dictated to people especially poor people who are sold access to self worth via their involvement in it (armed forces being a prime example); an island mentality with a serious war still in living memory but long ago enough to distort and mythologise about; child poverty and a society based on quite incredible inequality hierarchy this is in our environments you can see it; most places in the country you just need to drive a 5 miles in either direction to see tangible material difference in how people live and what is available to them; a section of society that refute any sense of patriotism not realising that for some people this feeling of belonging is part of their way of coping with the world.

Of course the rightwing focus on the final point but that doesn't mean it still isn't a contribution to quite a disjointed and unhealthy relationship the public has with ideas of a nation; Farage was so easily able to tap into the idea of the progressives sneering at people like you because there is a lot of truth in it.  All Farage had to do was hold a  pint and have a fag to become relatable rather than some squeaky clean living par excellence from the suburbs telling them all how to be good moral citizens.  People get hung up on why people fell and fall for it? But it's simple; he doesn't make them feel inferior in fact he gave people a psychological crutch in that they could blame someone else for the feelings of low worth. Simples. The counter thing has always been to reach people and give them something that is worth fighting for; this needs to be something is inclusive to them.

A lot of people that end up in services are struggling; they are also quite often the destructive people that are held up by the right and the left as examples of scum, don't try an read any logic into why humans that really shouldn't engage with certain things do so and repeat them; this is psychological pain we are talking about and there are lots of ways of dealing with these issues; some that are maladaptive and some which can be transformative.  What we do know is that people that are told they are worthless do not respond to shame, guilt and this approach is taken far too often; not because it is protective of others but often because it beneficial in certain ways and certain groups. 

Socialism obviously can speak to people about both their material situation and humanity - the sooner we get back to seriously trying to promote this again the better.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 05:23:17 PM by TrenterPercenter »

BlodwynPig

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It’s good that you are open about your misogyny, I honestly prefer it to the performative pretence that this forum doesn’t just see women as wank fodder or screeching harridans.


Misogyny? If it were a man or any other gender, they would elicit the same contempt. Watch her performances, go on...the delicate tear is forced out and the very next morning she's back to hollering at plebs. I don't think she is the worst by far. She's a cut above the dross, but when I saw this (going through a GMTV streak as it was reasonably fair for a portion of the pandemic), I baulked.

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