News:

"At Christmas I no more desire a rose Than wish a snow in May's new-fangled mirth; But like of each thing that in season grows."


That dog eating scene in Peep Show

Started by Barry Admin, June 10, 2021, 06:14:14 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Did you like it?

Dreadful
43 (52.4%)
Actually, I thought it was great
39 (47.6%)

Total Members Voted: 82

Barry Admin

Can't remember quite how my train of thought ended up on this, as I struggle with another night of insomnia, but...

It just broke the reality of the show, didn't it?

That's what was bollocks about it and why it is widely viewed as the nadir of Peep Show on here, right? It's not that it's easy gross out humour, cause that can be really funny. It's just fucking stupid. Eating a fucking burnt dog.

And yet it's seemingly one of the most popular scenes with "the shit-munchers", so do most folks just not have that sense of thinking "oh, hang on, this is dumb" when they're watching comedy?

dannyfc

In retrospect Series 4 isnt bad itself,  even in that episode there's some great bits like Marks inter dominational hangover joke when attempting to flirt.

But yeah its definitely the point where the tone shifted more toward shock humour.

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 10, 2021, 06:14:14 AM
Can't remember quite how my train of thought ended up on this, as I struggle with another night of insomnia, but...

It just broke the reality of the show, didn't it?

That's what was bollocks about it and why it is widely viewed as the nadir of Peep Show on here, right? It's not that it's easy gross out humour, cause that can be really funny. It's just fucking stupid. Eating a fucking burnt dog.

And yet it's seemingly one of the most popular scenes with "the shit-munchers", so do most folks just not have that sense of thinking "oh, hang on, this is dumb" when they're watching comedy?

Imagine being so insecure that you gatekeep sitcoms. I'm sure your IQ is well above average mate, don't worry.

ASFTSN

Arguably, running an open forum for 15000+ members to discuss sitcoms isn't gatekeeping them.

I don't actually think this scene was that bad, but I like disgusting stuff. I also thought it was quite funny that it was the second time a dog had met a grisly end at the hands of the El Dude brothers.

Peep Show only really went off the.  boil around series 8 for me.

Jockice

I actually watched this very scene yesterday, while trying to distract myself from doing any work I clicked on a link called 'Mark and Jeremy's most embarrassing moments' or suchlike. For me the whole thing doesn't work not because it's horrible but because all Jeremy had to do before getting on the barge with it was claim that the bag was full of rubbish and put it into a bin. No further questions would have been asked. I know comedy often stretches the bounds of normality, but I think even Trigger or Frank Spencer would have done that.

Barry Admin

Quote from: Fried Egg Sandwich on June 10, 2021, 08:16:20 AM
Imagine being so insecure that you gatekeep sitcoms. I'm sure your IQ is well above average mate, don't worry.

Does those mean you liked the scene and my thread triggered the fuck out of you? :-)

Anyway, genuine question in the OP. I did realise someone would almost certainly misinterpret the reference to "shit-eaters", so can't fault you for doing so.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Jockice on June 10, 2021, 08:31:23 AM
I actually watched this very scene yesterday, while trying to distract myself from doing any work I clicked on a link called 'Mark and Jeremy's most embarrassing moments' or suchlike. For me the whole thing doesn't work not because it's horrible but because all Jeremy had to do before getting on the barge with it was claim that the bag was full of rubbish and put it into a bin. No further questions would have been asked. I know comedy often stretches the bounds of normality, but I think even Trigger or Frank Spencer would have done that.

Yup. Jeremy is a pathetic little self-serving buffoon, a twat, but that scene made him look psychotic. 

Barry Admin

Quote from: ASFTSN on June 10, 2021, 08:23:20 AM
I also thought it was quite funny that it was the second time a dog had met a grisly end at the hands of the El Dude brothers.

What was the other time? Can't remember that at all.

Thomas

Quote from: Jockice on June 10, 2021, 08:31:23 AM
For me the whole thing doesn't work not because it's horrible but because all Jeremy had to do before getting on the barge with it was claim that the bag was full of rubbish and put it into a bin. No further questions would have been asked. I know comedy often stretches the bounds of normality, but I think even Trigger or Frank Spencer would have done that.

Yeah - sometimes it's entertaining (and cringingly tense) for the audience to spot ways that the failing protagonist could resolve everything and save themselves. It happens throughout Peep Show (think of Jez's expression as Mark needlessly sings 'I like you' to Sophie's answerphone - in that moment he is us).

But in this scene, Jez cornering himself into eating the dog is too contrived. There are just so many easy ways to dispose of it that it becomes distracting, rather than successfully tense. There's a bin, there's a hedge, there's a forest, there's a canal - and still he carries the bag all morning! I can imagine it working in a wackier show with more cartoonish rules - perhaps for Andy in Parks and Rec - but Peep Show had established a sort of psychological grounding.

paruses

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 10, 2021, 08:50:07 AM
What was the other time? Can't remember that at all.

Mark makes reference to having had to kick a dog to death in the episode where they go to pepper spray Superhans at his flat (I think).

I agree with Jockice, for the record. I don't see it as a turning point in the show but it's a misstep in an episode that I really like.

ASFTSN

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 10, 2021, 08:50:07 AM
What was the other time? Can't remember that at all.

First series I think, referenced but not shown, via Mark's internal monologue, something like:

Mark: (thinks) I've sent a threatening letter to the woman I love, I've kicked a dog to death...

Jeremy: It's a good thing you had those boots on.

mr. logic

Quote from: Thomas on June 10, 2021, 08:57:20 AM
Yeah - sometimes it's entertaining (and cringingly tense) for the audience to spot ways that the failing protagonist could resolve everything and save themselves. It happens throughout Peep Show (think of Jez's expression as Mark needlessly sings 'I like you' to Sophie's answerphone - in that moment he is us).

But in this scene, Jez cornering himself into eating the dog is too contrived. There are just so many easy ways to dispose of it that it becomes distracting, rather than successfully tense. There's a bin, there's a hedge, there's a forest, there's a canal - and still he carries the bag all morning! I can imagine it working in a wackier show with more cartoonish rules - perhaps for Andy in Parks and Rec - but Peep Show had established a sort of psychological grounding.

I mean, just for the sake of argument...if he scrambles the dog into the bag just as she gets back to the car (can't quite remember how it happens), then he is committed to having the bag when she's with him. Otherwise she would ask him what happened to his bag.

Might be bollocks.

Barry Admin

June 10, 2021, 09:08:09 AM #12 Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 09:28:41 AM by Barry Admin
Thanks, paruses and ASFTSN.  That's actually really interesting, given my argument is that the episode is not congruent with the reality that's been established by Peep Show in general.

Although it sounds like most of it was left to the imagination there, and didn't escalate to the point where nerds like me were thinking, "ahhhh, this is fucking dumb."

Edit for autocorrect phone fuckery.

Thomas

Mark kicking a dog to death in Series 1 is a standout moment of tonal darkness not really revisited for the rest of the show's run, or in Mark's character. I pin it on his burgeoning breakdown.

Quote from: mr. logic on June 10, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
I mean, just for the sake of argument...if he scrambles the dog into the bag just as she gets back to the car (can't quite remember how it happens), then he is committed to having the bag when she's with him. Otherwise she would ask him what happened to his bag.

Might be bollocks.

mr. logic weedling out the logic. I'm sure Jez's situation must've made better sense on paper - it just falters in the 3D world, where numerous onscreen opportunities present themselves.

ASFTSN

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 10, 2021, 09:08:09 AM
Thanks, paruses and ASFTSN.  That's actually really interesting, given my argument is that the episode is not congruent with the reality that's been established by Peep Show in general.

I have a VERY half-baked idea that I've been too lazy to ever do anything with, but I've always thought it would be interesting to look at how absurd/improbable/unreal/desperate the plots and situations the lads find themselves in the get in are relative to the physical distance they take place from their safe place, "the flat".

It does seem like when they go into a different county they find themselves eating dog/burning a barn/sucking mummy's finger. Most of the stuff that happens more local to then is often horrible but believable.

Probably nothing in it, but I'd love to actually properly look into it one day.

MoreauVasz

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 10, 2021, 09:08:09 AM
Thanks! That's actually really interesting, given my argument is that the episode is not congruent with the reality set up by Peep Show in general.

I have similar feelings but it's actually about the much earlier episode in which Mark makes a reference to having kicked a dog to death. The event is never shown on screen and the only repercussions are Jeremy being thankful that Mark was wearing boots and Mark going into therapy immediately afterwards but it has always struck me as a weird ontological blemish on the reality of the show.

It would be like Jerry in Seinfeld making a casual reference to Kramer having spent a decade in jail for sexual battery.

Jerzy Bondov

Maybe he's exaggerating when he 'says' he kicked the dog to death. Maybe it was only maimed :-)

MoreauVasz

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on June 10, 2021, 09:18:40 AM
Maybe he's exaggerating when he 'says' he kicked the dog to death. Maybe it was only maimed :-)

That's what I assume, but it bothers me more than Jeremy eating a dog as I can imagine Jeremy doing that out of awkwardness in order to cover up his own lies whereas Mark kicking a dog to death speaks to a level of savage cruelty that I find very hard to reconcile with everything else we know about the character.

Thomas

Quote from: MoreauVasz on June 10, 2021, 09:28:05 AM
Mark kicking a dog to death speaks to a level of savage cruelty that I find very hard to reconcile with everything else we know about the character.

Whenever I watched that episode, I do wonder if Bain and Armstrong would've included such an act in later series, once they'd spent more time with Mark's character. Being only five episodes in, they might've felt freer to assign darker moments to the characters for the sake of a joke.

I do, however, think that Mark definitely would piss in Barbara's drawer, stakeout Sophie's garden, and pepper-spray Jez.

Beagle 2

I've always liked it and I love that episode, but at the same time I can totally see how it might jolt you out of the reality of the show and everything that had been built up to that point. I enjoyed it as a standalone piece of silliness and I liked that they fully committed to the plotline's natural ridiculous conclusion.

Doesn't Jeremy even make some sort of comment in the closing frames which sounds almost like a acknowledgment/apology from the writers?

ASFTSN

Quote from: MoreauVasz on June 10, 2021, 09:28:05 AM
That's what I assume, but it bothers me more than Jeremy eating a dog as I can imagine Jeremy doing that out of awkwardness in order to cover up his own lies whereas Mark kicking a dog to death speaks to a level of savage cruelty that I find very hard to reconcile with everything else we know about the character.

I think it works because it's entirely through Mark's minds-eye and his tendency for anxious hyperbole. This is the same bloke who thinks the "real world" is one where cocks get chewed off and compliance reports get shoved up arses.

sevendaughters

The dog-eating scene is bad and I particularly dislike the way they attempted to fix its unreality by having Jez comment on the act to close out the episode. Felt very nudge-nudge meta.

However, s4 is rounded out by one of the best episodes in Mark's horrible wedding, which has not just great writing and jokes, but even has a lovely bit of filmmaking (beginning and ending with Mark dolefully looking into the mirror at the only person he thinks really understands him).

With this in mind you can write off the stag episode as mid-series blues for a show that has done a lot with little and made a virtue out of visual restriction.

However it is undeniable that Peep Show dives fully, stark-bollock naked, off a motorway bridge, caked in filth, and starts dancing in traffic and begging to be put out of its misery.

For me that happens in series 5 with the episode where Mark is raped. It's a dark episode outside of this moment and feels terribly broken. There'd been a horrible moment very early in the series with the Burgling episode, but this seemed to ramp everything up to a bizarre nihilistic pitch where laughing felt secondary to debating whether this was actually rape like some shitty Sunday morning BBC1 'talk show'.

It visually mirrors and recalls the episode in series 1 where Mark manages to actually have consensual (but bad) sex with a goth, which seems to make a 'realistic' climax after a bunch of slightly liberating and positive encounters in mundane situations. There was light and shade, but by S5 that light had all but gone out of it with the Australians coming between the burglary and the rape.

paruses

Quote from: MoreauVasz on June 10, 2021, 09:28:05 AM
That's what I assume, but it bothers me more than Jeremy eating a dog as I can imagine Jeremy doing that out of awkwardness in order to cover up his own lies whereas Mark kicking a dog to death speaks to a level of savage cruelty that I find very hard to reconcile with everything else we know about the character.

I'd never considered he was being hyperbolic but that's more likely. I always really liked that that bit for the shock value and the nice reinforcement of it from Jez. The fact that you see the dog barking up at them when they're climbing the wall and Mark's quite selfish horror at how his evening has panned out seems very believable to me - much more than taking the hind quarter of a half cremated dog out of a bag and chowing down on it - it's not like it's been skinned and cooked in a bbq pit for hours.

I've never really had an issue with that bit until typing that out.

Leej88

Jez and Mark are horrible in series 4 anyone who finds out Mark does not love Sophie gets dealt with in horrible fashion.

jobotic

Not familiar enough with Peep Show (I've seen it all must mostly ages ago) to remember a kicking a dog to death line, but couldn't it have been in self-defence, or perhaps the dog was attacking someone else? Might not have been for a laugh.

Jerzy Bondov

Mark's climbing over a fence and it starts woofing at him iirc

evilcommiedictator

Same with the touching from the masseur in the gym, it just breaks veneer of believe-ability too much, would Mark really dob in someone for sexual assault like that?
Similar thing with Jez and Hans abducting the Prof in the last season, but at that point........

dr beat

Quote from: ASFTSN on June 10, 2021, 09:16:07 AM
I have a VERY half-baked idea that I've been too lazy to ever do anything with, but I've always thought it would be interesting to look at how absurd/improbable/unreal/desperate the plots and situations the lads find themselves in the get in are relative to the physical distance they take place from their safe place, "the flat".

It does seem like when they go into a different county they find themselves eating dog/burning a barn/sucking mummy's finger. Most of the stuff that happens more local to then is often horrible but believable.

Probably nothing in it, but I'd love to actually properly look into it one day.

I think there might be something in that.  Off the top of my head, there's perhaps stuff like Jez and Super Hands threatening Gog, Mark pretending to be a student, Mark going crazy in Kettering.  Perhaps also the Sectioning episode in S3?

Leej88

The sectioning episode is hilarious especially Super Hans reaction to nearly being sectioned.

mippy

It does feel like it comes from a different show entirely.