Contrapoints

[Mister Six]

After putting off watching Contrapoints' videos for ages because they're so bloody long and I probably agree with her anyway, I watched the Gender Critical one and am now completely won over. Been enjoying a bunch of these when I'm washing up and so on, as a fill-in for the Adam Buxton podcast.

Loved "Gender Critical", "Incels" and "JK Rowling". Gave up about half an hour into "Cringe", which didn't seem to be going anywhere compelling. Just about to fire up "Men".

But! She's not done one for months. Is she all right? It looks like her output was tailing off before that too.

Also, I guess, discuss Contrapoints in here.

[Barry Admin]

I'd say the 1 hour 40 minute video about being canceled on twitter was kind of a shark jump moment, and hope she gets back on form. I've seen her gaming streams pop up on YouTube at times, so think she'd just focusing on those? I dunno.

Favourite vid is probably the Tiffany Tumbles one, and it's even better if you first watch the debate with Blaire White - I noticed what seemed to be a good few references to that vid.

Tiffany Tumbles:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j1dJ8whOM8E

Contra Vs Blaire White:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-SeCD8tJUhU

Seems to have finally removed the pre-transition videos :-/ those were phenomenal, but fair enough I guess.

[Buelligan]

I think my favourite, the one that made me cry and laugh the most, was Alpha Males.  Sadly, as Barry says, no longer available and the visuals were an absolute delight but we can still laugh about the thoughts.  I love her.

https://www.contrapoints.com/transcripts/archives/alpha-males

Happily, one can still, also, split ones poor sides looking at this apparently seriously self-published image of the actual Golden One, which, IIRC, was also featured in that vid -

[pigamus]

I didn't have a problem with the cancelling video, I thought it was fascinating

[Dr Rock]

Seems to have finally removed the pre-transition videos :-/ those were phenomenal, but fair enough I guess.

Ah that's a shame there was some great content there, not just on trans issue but racism and that, and of course were very funny.

[MoreauVasz]

Some kind soul has been putting up a load of her old vids:

https://youtube.com/channel/UC7buV8Q_Q6SczbyvK4K6tQQ

I agree that she ain't as good as she used to be but I don't think the cancellation vid was the sea change. Back in the day, Contra made these very clever, very funny vids that were like 20 minutes long and went straight to the point.  Now every video she makes seems to be 2 hours long, comprises nothing but her in a series of ridiculous costumes, and what meat the vids contain are buried deep beneath the sprawling run time and the tendency to make videos with vague abstract names so you literally have to sit through an hour if costume changes before encountering the point she's trying to make.

[imitationleather]

Yeah I found the last video I watched by her completely impenetrable and self-indulgent. I don't get why left-wing YouTubers don't seem to understand that being able to be concise when making a point is a really important and attractive skill. The videos are just getting longer and longer and longer like it's a competition between them, but from what I can tell the content is just becoming more padded out.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

2nded/3rded.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Gave up about half an hour into "Cringe", which didn't seem to be going anywhere compelling.

I found Cringe really good, but then I'm terminally on-line and I know who Chris-Chan is.

I was sad that she took down her pre-transition videos, I found Gender Dysphoria to be an excellent short film about, well, gender dysphoria. I understand why she did it, and I'll understand if PhilosophyTube ends up doing the same thing at some point. I'm not really comfortable with people uploading her old vids. Seems disrespectful.

With regard to style and length, CP's only done three videos that are over an hour long. One is Cancelling, which you can skip if you don't care about trans twitter drama. But the other two are Cringe and J.K. Rowling. Both of those are worth watching and both of them are long because CP takes the time to understand people who make fun of others (specifically right-wing trans folk who mock other trans folk), and TERFs, including JayKay. I'm so sorry so many of you hate style and fun. How long are the podcasts you listen to?

[Retinend]

Cringe is a masterpiece. I really like how long they are, but maybe I'm terminally online.

[Brundle-Fly]

Yeah I found the last video I watched by her completely impenetrable and self-indulgent. I don't get why left-wing YouTubers don't seem to understand that being able to be concise when making a point is a really important and attractive skill. The videos are just getting longer and longer and longer like it's a competition between them, but from what I can tell the content is just becoming more padded out.

I really tried with Contrapoints videos because they sounded very interesting but for the impenetrable and self-indulgence reasons you stated, I bailed. I'm probably not her target audience though, to be unfair.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm so sorry so many of you hate style and fun.

Touchy! I'm so sorry you can't cope with criticism of something you like. Wait, no, that's a unfair overly emotional overreaction, isn't it? I take it back.

[thugler]

I don't mind the odd long one, but the way all of this lot started making ultra long videos all of a sudden did get on my nerves. The lindsey ellis cancellation one absolutely got my goat. Why spend so long rebutting what were obviously bad faith criticisms in the first place. Short and to the point videos can be a lot more effective, a lot of people are going to switch off otherwise. It's particularly annoying if I basically already agree with the video anyway, so I'm sat watching someone argue things that I already agree with for an hour.

Oh and Contra is probably the best of all of these people.

[touchingcloth]

I really tried with Contrapoints videos because they sounded very interesting but for the impenetrable and self-indulgence reasons you stated, I bailed.

I'd heard them mentioned before but never seen one until this thread got posted and, er, same.

[peanutbutter]

I'd say the 1 hour 40 minute video about being canceled on twitter was kind of a shark jump moment, and hope she gets back on form. I've seen her gaming streams pop up on YouTube at times, so think she'd just focusing on those? I dunno.

Iirc that one was completely produced by her and it _really_ showed.

Asides from Cringe her stuff since hasn't been super good and has felt _extremely_ forced. I see the Rowling one is 90 minutes and I cannot recall a single thing of note.

Yeah I found the last video I watched by her completely impenetrable and self-indulgent. I don't get why left-wing YouTubers don't seem to understand that being able to be concise when making a point is a really important and attractive skill. The videos are just getting longer and longer and longer like it's a competition between them, but from what I can tell the content is just becoming more padded out.

I think it's a consequence of being so consumed by the internet in general. If you're on twitter to the insane levels that someone like Shaun is (and he's far more a retweet guy than a youtuber at this stage), it's probably quite hard to focus on knocking out shorter videos with less of a gap between them but the amount of time the project is in your head results in it being a bit of a bloated mess.


Basically all of them are spending a lot of time on Twitch just playing games too? I can see how that's a much nicer way to pass the time.

[touchingcloth]

If you're on twitter to the insane levels that someone like Shaun is

Some of us aren't on twitter enough to be on first name terms with everyone on twitter.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Touchy! I'm so sorry you can't cope with criticism of something you like. Wait, no, that's a unfair overly emotional overreaction, isn't it? I take it back.

...Are you drunk this morning or something?

Some of us aren't on twitter enough to be on first name terms with everyone on twitter.

No, his YouTube handle is actually Shaun. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ6o36XL0CpYb6U5dNBiXHQ

[Buelligan]

I love Shaun, I love CP, end of the day, IMO, it's down to style.  Some people want to buzz past, poke in their proboscis and be force fed facts right from the throbbing source.  Others like a nice plate, some presentation, light a few candles, bit of effort.  It's just style.

[touchingcloth]

No, his YouTube handle is actually Shaun. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ6o36XL0CpYb6U5dNBiXHQ

Kids these days with their crazy names.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

...Are you drunk this morning or something?

I am never drunk in the morning if that helps future lazy shitty comebacks. It's possible my sobriety contributed to how I styled my post as a reaction to your petulant remark.

I'm so sorry so many of you hate style and fun.

[bgmnts]

I do hate style AND fun but I don't mind Contrapoints.

Shaun is great as well, and he is the exact opposite of Contrapoints I suppose.

[Buelligan]

I am never drunk in the morning if that helps future lazy shitty comebacks. It's possible my sobriety contributed to how I styled my post as a reaction to your petulant remark.

Gah, and there was me thinking you'd just pulled yourself back from being a humourless dry old ball when you last brought up that remark. 

People were expressing their dislike of CP's dressing up of her content - no need to react as if acknowledging that, entirely true, observation is some sort of bitch-slap with a hate-filled wank sock.  It's not.  For god's sake don't display your incandescent hatred of style and fun so markedly if you don't want it marked.

[Thursday]

Did make me roll my eyes a bit how Contrapoints and Lindsay Ellis who go months between videos managed to turn out a video very very quickly after being cancelled on Twitter.

[madhair60]

People were expressing their dislike of CP's dressing up of her content - no need to react as if acknowledging that, entirely true, observation is some sort of bitch-slap with a hate-filled wank sock.  It's not.  For god's sake don't display your incandescent hatred of style and fun so markedly if you don't want it marked.

i can't tell if you're being sincere and it's making my head hurt. surely the "you hate style and fun" thing isn't being treated with any actual merit??????

"if you dislike this it means you hate fun" is what the twats who like fucking marvel movies say. Sorry Poirot's B.G.C I think you're good, I'm just surprised

[Wet Blanket]

But! She's not done one for months. Is she all right? It looks like her output was tailing off before that too.

Her Insta stories lately have been about hitting AA/NA milestones so presumably she's been using the time off to get clean. I thought the boozing/drug-taking refs in her videos were gags but maybe not.

Never been put off by the length of the videos. Lots of interesting stuff is 90+ minutes. Adam Curtis' latest documentary was about nine hours an episode, or at least felt like it

[Buelligan]

i can't tell if you're being sincere and it's making my head hurt. surely the "you hate style and fun" thing isn't being treated with any actual merit??????

"if you dislike this it means you hate fun" is what the twats who like fucking marvel movies say. Sorry Poirot's B.G.C I think you're good, I'm just surprised

Obvs, I'm slightly laughing up my sleeve and prodding Shoulders over his love of extreme language and bollocking everyone.  So there's that.  And, I think, Poirot's remark, which seems to have driven this intense reaction can be interpreted in more than one way - I'm not here to interpret but I am here to say Why always assume something really nasty is intended and then react in a pretty aggressive way?  Is this the best we can do with this interesting discussion, have a fight about a possible insult to our amazeballs inner lives?

I mean, even if she did mean, you're all a bunch of cunts who pathologically HATE fun and style and deserve death, is there any need to go so insane about it?  Dunno, I don't think so. 

So, yeah, was pissing about but yeah, did mean maybe we need to stop getting so antsy.

[touchingcloth]

I think the ratio of posts in the Corbyn threads to the HS Art/Wimblewrong ones shows that you are all a bunch of cunts who hate fun.

[Buelligan]

Well I fucking hate it, I'll tell you that.  Not just overrated, it's actually shit.

[Barry Admin]

Never been put off by the length of the videos. Lots of interesting stuff is 90+ minutes. Adam Curtis' latest documentary was about nine hours an episode, or at least felt like it

Yeah it's not the length of them that's my issue really, as when I found her I went nuts, and watched absolutely everything I could, and then watched it all again. And it's rare that I get into stuff so intensely, so I really relish it when it happens.

It was just specifically the feeling of self-indulgence on the canceling video I didn't like. She went from being a really interesting pop philosopher, to someone who was crying at length about a bunch of cunts being pissy on twitter.

I get it tho... I did similar when I was on that hellsite, and still remember Kelvin telling me off for spending hours doing an enormous storify 😂

In a broader sense, I think she also settled into a style, and that bothered me, because I didn't want to hear the same snarky catchphrases over and over again, and I really loved how her previous videos would jump about between formats. I mean, Tiffany Tumbles is based on her old thing of having a socratic dialogue, but it's so incredibly powerful because it then spins off and follows the main character home, so we finally get to see one of her characters live with the result of her choices and actions.

She is in a tough place, with an insane amount of expectations placed upon her shoulders by the trans community, but she's gotta learn to ignore a lot of that, rather than feel it all must be addressed. Sometimes it's just not worth engaging.

[Mister Six]

How long are the podcasts you listen to?

Well, "podcasts" is a bit much, it's usually just the Adam Buxton one and then maybe the odd interview with someone I like that I've stumbled across, or a specific episode of another series that someone has mentioned on here. They're usually about 40 minutes to an hour, but they're also usually freewheeling audio-only conversations that are easy to dip in and out of, rather than elaborately produced critiques built around a central argument, so they felt like something that could be turned on and off to fit my schedule rather than something that would by necessity occupy all of my conscious thought for 30-90 minutes, in which case I'd rather dig into my voluminous backlog "must-watch" of TV and film.

But then I spent five hours of existence half-watching (but fully listening to) Jay Exci's tremendous takedown of Chris Chibnall's Doctor Who, and then the dam was broken, pretty much.