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Star Trek Picard S2

Started by Malcy, June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM

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JamesTC

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Yeah this is more nitpicking shite, sorry. They never swore before (I wonder if that had anything to do with it being on television and having to abide by broadcasting standards and practices) therefore this is just one more piece of evidence that proves etc.



Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

But frankly it is the least of its problems. Just one of a myriad  of reasons why it is shit. If it was just swearing that I didn't  like about it then I'd probably not even mention it. You inevitably nitpick when something is as bad as Picard is.


mothman

Quote from: Alberon on September 10, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
That's the problem when a lead actor does an accent, guest actors rarely copy them. See also Londo Mollari in Babylon 5.

But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

Where the system does break down is when you have a CBBC show like Millie Inbetween (starting CaB's own James Bachman) where the kids have a Scottish accent despite neither parent having one.

Mobbd

Quote from: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

Yeah, sorry Poirot but I agree with James. And I so wish I could agree with Poirot! I was never one of those nitpicker fans.[nb]"My mum says I'm cool!"[/nb] I hear what sounds like abject nerdery coming out of my mouth (or fingertips) but I think it's more than that and actually it's a legitimately important point about art and writing more broadly. The swearing, no matter how infrequent it may be, is stylistically a bad choice.

That Admiral telling Picard to "shut the fuck up" was shockingly wrong. (At least we're not in prequel territory for once though, so we're not being asked to accept that Admiralty always spoke that way).

I see the detail of the swearing as emblematic of one of the bigger problems with New Trek. The producers think that Dark = Badass = Mature = Good. When actually it's Dark = Lame + Childish = Poopies.

Lemming

No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Mobbd

Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Actually, that's great, Lemming. Yeah. I'd be open-minded in principle about swearing in Trek if it didn't sound so awkward and crow-barred. Stilted is exactly the word.

I guess it's stilted because it's deployed in contexts (I might say a universe, but maybe that's too far) where real people would be unlikely to swear. Old dignified European man saying "bullshit" like an American teen; people swearing at work; a decorated Admiral in a not-particularly-stressful scenario. It's just so weird; this is why I think they're trying too hard to be cool and I just find that gross. It's like Jessie Pinkman putting chili powder in the meth. Inexpert. Dumb.

Lemming

Yeah, exactly - same for other elements in neo-Trek, like the violence. There can be (and obviously always has been) violence in Star Trek, but maybe it shouldn't take the form of a Romulan Samurai kid delivering cool one-liners before slicing nameless, faceless people's heads off, or Icheb graphically getting his eyeball torn out of his head and dying. Same problem I had with a lot of the movies.

Endicott

It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ

mothman


Mobbd

Quote from: Endicott on September 10, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ

ahaha, that was awesome. The only one I didn't like was Scotty's "Klingon bitch" - the others all had appropriate weight and were beautiful.

Fave might have been Kirk's "no, no dipshit" one. Exceptionally funny and endearing.

greenman

Quote from: mothman on September 10, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.

Wonderful Butternut

September 10, 2021, 07:01:37 PM #70 Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 07:22:47 PM by Wonderful Butternut
Swearing in Star Trek only doesn't work when a big deal is made out of it and the writers leave it hang in the air so the audience have time to react to the imaginary taboo being broken by a Star Trek character saying rude words. Like when Disco dropped the first F-Bomb, or even Data's "Oh shit!" in Generations. Oh and Admiral Sheer Fucking Hubris doesn't work, but that's partly because she wasn't a believable character anyway, imo.

Picard saying he has no time for Q's bullshit or Riker commenting that they were through 'running from these bastards' in Insurrection seem fine to me imo.

Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Picard was quoting what Riker said to him years previously with the "ass-deep in Romulans" remark, so the question is: "is it something Riker would say?". Doesn't seem nearly as wrong a statement to come out of Riker's as opposed to Picard's.

Although if they had kept the original (better) ending scenes for Insurrection, we would've gotten Picard saying "Top level review my ass": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-UxpMUvfJ4&ab_channel=Vudu

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: greenman on September 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.

His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.

mothman

Peter Jurasik said that whenever he had trouble slipping back into the accent, he would just say "Mr. Garibaldi!" and it'd come flooding back.

Cloud

I watched B5 before I knew what a garibaldi was.  And then watched Life on Mars and wondered why the various witness interviewees kept asking for biscuits named after that bloke on B5.

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing.

Yeah, the foul mouthed cunts.

Kelvin

The trailer looks horrendous, and I'm not sure what value there is a rewritten past that has turned society into a fascist state, when the Federation has already, in the existing continuity, been transformed into a ruthless, xenophobic, valueless pile of shit anyway. No, it's not currently out and out fascism, but it's already moved far enough from the original utopian vision of Star Trek that there's no stark parallel - or tension - in creating a new, hateful world in its place.

The trailer with Nazi Picard makes it look just like a mirror universe episode and I have zero interest in that. The makers of this and Discovery seem to really dislike Star Trek with their constant moving the story away from the actual Star trek universe.

mothman

September 11, 2021, 10:16:09 PM #76 Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 10:35:42 PM by mothman
The banners at the rally are similar in shape to the Terran Empire symbol, but definitely different overall. At the risk of reopening a discussion we had in the TNG thread, I think this is intended to be an altered timeline rather than a different universe.

Unless Kurtzmann & co really have taken it upon themselves to show the point of divergence/creation of the Mirror Universe - which I certainly wouldn't put past them! But I maintain I think it's not the MU.

I wonder whether this season's storyline is a reaction to the fan dislike of the grimdark 25th-century Federation? "It could be a LOT worse, see?!"

Alberon

I'm sure it's not the Mirror Universe, but really how different is another 'evil Federation' going to be?

Hasn't Discovery plowed that field enough recently? Can't the showrunners find something new and different to play with?

Blumf

Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

greenman

Quote from: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.

Impossible to say "Vir" in any other way.

Cloud

Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

B7 was downright cheerful compared to some of Picard S1

Mind, so was Eastenders.

chveik

Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

i've been watching MillenniuM, i don't think you can get more grim dark than that. it's great though

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

Yeah, or Sapphire and Steel, in fact both!

mothman

Someone spotted a scene in the trailer where Picard is being interrogated by what could be a 21st century police detective, played by Jay Karnes, best known for playing Dutch in The Shield. However, once upon a time he also played Lt. Ducane of the Federation timeship Relativity in the VOY episode of the same name. Which could just be a coincidence - he went on to bigger and better things after all - but if so, it's a hell of a one...