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March 29, 2024, 02:46:41 PM

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Obesity is a disease.

Started by bgmnts, June 17, 2021, 02:58:43 PM

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Bazooka

Quote"We've got a chicken place, we've got a burger place, we have got a fish shop, we've got a kebab shop, "
He sings the songs that remind him of the good times
He sings the songs that remind him of the better times


earl_sleek


Butchers Blind

Get on the amphetamines ASAP.

There's always been a double standard around the two ends of the scales as it were.
Anorexic - Poor darling, pressured by the images in the media to be thin.
Obese - Fuck off you fat lazy cunt.
People can be horrible some times. Actually, most of the time.

Jim_MacLaine

Anger is an Energy






your move.

dissolute ocelot

Isn't this why God invented amphetamines?

I don't know why you can get drugs to lower your blood pressure that millions of people take daily, but not a drug to control your metabolism and weight gain.

Maybe it's because saving the lives of well-off middle-aged men is more important than working-class women. Or maybe it really is the evil diet industry sitting on genuine solutions like Exxon killing anyone who develops a perpetual motion machine.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Largely Babble on June 17, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
There's always been a double standard around the two ends of the scales as it were.
Anorexic - Poor darling, pressured by the images in the media to be thin.
Obese - Fuck off you fat lazy cunt.
People can be horrible some times. Actually, most of the time.

It's a shame that metabolism is so poorly understood as possibly the main factor in obesity, when intuitively everyone must know that there's more to the equation than calories in versus calories out. Most people probably know skinny alcoholics, when if they were processing all of the energy in their booze they'd be the size of houses.

Paul Calf

Quote from: touchingcloth on June 17, 2021, 05:03:28 PM
Most people probably know skinny alcoholics, when if they were processing all of the energy in their booze they'd be the size of houses.

They hardly eat anything. All their money goes to booze.

Quote, when intuitively everyone must know that there's more to the equation than calories in versus calories out

Nope.

purlieu

I eat fewer calories now than I did in my teens and twenties, and exercise more. I used to be between 8 and 10 stone, since my early 30s I started piling weight on, hit 14 and a half last year. It's frustrating, because I used to be able to have cereal for breakfast, sandwich and crisps for lunch, something with chips or a massive plate of pasta for dinner, and spend half my days being sat at the computer or watching TV and stayed so skinny that I was sometimes asked if I'd considered I might have an eating disorder, and frequently told I "need to eat more". These days I mostly tend to eat salads, soups, stir fries and other veg-based low-carb meals, walk my dog for an hour and a half and do a couple of hours on the exercise bike a day, yet I can barely shift the weight at all. My partner thought it might be related to the medication I was on, but since coming off it's had no effect at all. What's going on there then?

Quote from: purlieu on June 17, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
I eat fewer calories now than I did in my teens and twenties, and exercise more. I used to be between 8 and 10 stone, since my early 30s I started piling weight on, hit 14 and a half last year. It's frustrating, because I used to be able to have cereal for breakfast, sandwich and crisps for lunch, something with chips or a massive plate of pasta for dinner, and spend half my days being sat at the computer or watching TV and stayed so skinny that I was sometimes asked if I'd considered I might have an eating disorder, and frequently told I "need to eat more". These days I mostly tend to eat salads, soups, stir fries and other veg-based low-carb meals, walk my dog for an hour and a half and do a couple of hours on the exercise bike a day, yet I can barely shift the weight at all. My partner thought it might be related to the medication I was on, but since coming off it's had no effect at all. What's going on there then?

Dead soon.

imitationleather

Similar is happening to me, purlieu. A mere three years ago I could fit into children's size clothes.

I just count myself very lucky I managed to get a long-term relationship locked down before it started.

JamesTC

Not sure I particularly like the article. Particularly the section on the fad diet the woman tried when she was 16. If it was a responsible article it would have pointed out that 800 calories a day is dangerously low (rule of thumb is that women shouldn't drop below 1200 on average and men shouldn't drop below 1500).

Quote from: touchingcloth on June 17, 2021, 05:03:28 PM
It's a shame that metabolism is so poorly understood as possibly the main factor in obesity, when intuitively everyone must know that there's more to the equation than calories in versus calories out. Most people probably know skinny alcoholics, when if they were processing all of the energy in their booze they'd be the size of houses.

Alcoholics will ignore food calories. A skinny 5ft 10in guy will maintain their weight at just under 1900 calories per day which is enough for four litres of beer and a sandwich.

At the end of the day, calories are just a way of measuring energy and you can't break the laws of thermodynamics. Scotty tried to and look how he ended up in the later Star Trek films.

I've lost loads of weight monitoring calories (still loads more to go). It isn't exact for everybody, but the principle is there of you having a total daily expenditure of calories and needing to be 500 below that per day to drop 1lb per week. Once you have a gauge over what your daily total expenditure is then it is just a matter of working out how many calories to take in as a maximum to drop the desired weight (allowing for water weight fluctuations).

The only reason there is more to it than calories in and calories out is because some calories stretch further when eaten in terms of satiating hunger. A big bowl of fruit or veg won't be too calorific but it will make you feel full. Compare that to a chocolate bar which will be a similar amount of calories but does fuck all for satiating hunger.

Your body needs a certain amount of calories to sustain the current weight. The TDEE won't be exact for everybody but it should be broadly in the ballpark. You aren't going to have somebody who is morbidly obese with a TDEE of 1200 calories. Every body needs a certain amount of base energy to function and the more your body weighs, the more energy it needs.


popcorn

#14
Quote from: dissolute ocelot on June 17, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
I don't know why you can get drugs to lower your blood pressure that millions of people take daily, but not a drug to control your metabolism and weight gain.

Maybe it's because saving the lives of well-off middle-aged men is more important than working-class women. Or maybe it really is the evil diet industry sitting on genuine solutions like Exxon killing anyone who develops a perpetual motion machine.

The UK weight loss industry alone is worth £2 billion according to the Independent. If it were possible to safely lose weight via a pill then it would outsell viagra by a factor of a trillion to one. The science just isn't there, and it's not for trying.

edit: $, not £

imitationleather

Imagine a vaccine against food. <oof>

bgmnts

Quote from: purlieu on June 17, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
I eat fewer calories now than I did in my teens and twenties, and exercise more. I used to be between 8 and 10 stone, since my early 30s I started piling weight on, hit 14 and a half last year.

8 stone? Are you 5'1"?

I'm 5'9" and my target is to get back down to 14 stone again lol

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: popcorn on June 17, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
The science just isn't there, and it's not for trying.
The science is there, it's called amphetamines. They're also insanely fucking dangerous.

Janie Jones

Amphetamines don't actually make your metabolism burn faster, do they? They reduce your appetite so you eat less and they keep you awake and active for longer.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy


Ambient Sheep

There was a story in New Scientist around ten years ago that claimed research had found that obesity was caused by a viral infection, in much the same way that in the 80s they discovered that most stomach ulcers were caused by H.Pylori.

The story seemed to disappear quite rapidly, and I've never heard about it again.  I had mixed feelings about it, because on one hand "Yayyy, not my fault" but on the other "OMG, fatness is catching, stay away from me!!".

flotemysost

Quote from: Largely Babble on June 17, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
There's always been a double standard around the two ends of the scales as it were.
Anorexic - Poor darling, pressured by the images in the media to be thin.
Obese - Fuck off you fat lazy cunt.

Except for the very, very many who frame anorexia and bulimia as vain, shallow, frivolous modern-day inventions. Goes hand in hand with the "In my day we didn't have all these diets, we just ate what was put in front of us, and we played outside instead of sitting in front of the TV like teenagers nowadays, and so all these silly disorders didn't even exist!" discourse.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

I don't think it can be that easy though, can it, to say there's one singular cause for obesity and it's as easy as isolating the "fat virus" and vaccinating against it. Like, we are battling against millions of years of evolution, most of which was spent having to hunt and forage for food. Of course fatty sugary shit tastes delicious to us, back when we were barely walking upright you scoffed it down because who knew when you'd find some (or any food) again. Of course some people have genes that make them prone to gain weight and keep it on. Of course it's only now that we can have all the sugar and fat we want that the effects of those genes are becoming apparent.

But the food industry plays a role too. Capitalism plays a role. If your little row of baker, butcher, greengrocer and fishmonger shops are wall to wall takeaways the temptation is there and you have to go further to buy "real" food. If the minimart across the road from the primary school offers a "school lunch special" of a chicken fillet roll, packet of crisps and bottle of water for €3.50, plenty of kids are going to take it. If that same minimart has huge slabs of chocolate on sale for €2 right at the register, kids (and adults) are going to buy them. Tayto increased the weight of their single bags of crisps from 35g to 45g, probably to compete with O'Donnell's, Keogh's and McCoy's who sell 50g bags.

More needs to be done at all levels.

Kankurette

Quote from: Largely Babble on June 17, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
There's always been a double standard around the two ends of the scales as it were.
Anorexic - Poor darling, pressured by the images in the media to be thin.
Obese - Fuck off you fat lazy cunt.
People can be horrible some times. Actually, most of the time.
Yep. Binge eating disorder is a real thing but nobody ever feels sorry for people who have it, it's 'put down the fork and exercise, you fat cunt'. I guess anorexia is seen as glamorous, that whole walking in the snow and not seeing a footprint thing, and extreme thinness is desirable in some fields (like modelling or ballet) whereas fat people are seen as repulsive. One fat model is on Cosmo and Mumsnet start screaming about Glorifying Obesity.

Incidentally, I've never understood the logic of mocking fat people exercising. You're mocking them for being fat but shouldn't you be glad they're exercising? Would you prefer it if they just sat on their arses all day long?

Kankurette

Quote from: flotemysost on June 17, 2021, 06:19:40 PM
Except for the very, very many who frame anorexia and bulimia as vain, shallow, frivolous modern-day inventions. Goes hand in hand with the "In my day we didn't have all these diets, we just ate what was put in front of us, and we played outside instead of sitting in front of the TV like teenagers nowadays, and so all these silly disorders didn't even exist!" discourse.
Ive seen it as well and I know for a fact it is bollocks, because my mum was anorexic as a teen in the sixties. It did exist, people just weren't aware of it. It's like the idea that nobody in the fifties has mental health problems.

pigamus

All the years I've been here and nobody's started a thread about me before, I feel quite emotional

Quote from: flotemysost on June 17, 2021, 06:19:40 PM
Except for the very, very many who frame anorexia and bulimia as vain, shallow, frivolous modern-day inventions. Goes hand in hand with the "In my day we didn't have all these diets, we just ate what was put in front of us, and we played outside instead of sitting in front of the TV like teenagers nowadays, and so all these silly disorders didn't even exist!" discourse.
That's really interesting. I personally haven't come across that opinion in my life often. I could well be in a bubble I'm unaware of.

Quote from: Kankurette on June 17, 2021, 06:36:56 PM
Incidentally, I've never understood the logic of mocking fat people exercising. You're mocking them for being fat but shouldn't you be glad they're exercising? Would you prefer it if they just sat on their arses all day long?
Very true. I think it's baked in a bit a school. First cab off the rank bullying.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Kankurette on June 17, 2021, 06:36:56 PM
Incidentally, I've never understood the logic of mocking fat people exercising.
It's disgust.

All fat-hate comes down to disgust.

purlieu

Quote from: bgmnts on June 17, 2021, 05:52:23 PM
8 stone? Are you 5'1"?
Couple of inches off 6 foot. I was severely underweight but despite the fact I probably went through 50 rocky caramels a week on top of my three meals a day I didn't put any weight on at all. Meanwhile, I just spent the last eight months really, really struggling to get my weight down and finally got under 13 stone, only for a slip in mental health and slightly less healthy (not binge) eating a few weeks ago and I'm back up to just shy of 14 again.