The school where smiling will become compulsory

[Sebastian Cobb]

The lunchtime thing is ridiculous, not only the ritual but the fact that it effectively bilks both kids and teachers out of a proper break.

Kids unfortunately have no right and obviously they're getting the shittier end of the stick in this place but it surprises me they're allowed to force teachers to effectively take charge of a lunchtime recap. I bet this lack of break for both kids and teachers can make for some afternoons where some of the pupils misbehave and the teachers are unnecessarily angry about it.

[greencalx]

I bet if you held some sort of formal dinner for these teachers and enforced their own rules on them, they'd all be down the pub afterwards getting shitfaced and bitching about how awful the whole thing was.

Yes it's important that kids respect their teachers but it's a two-way street.

[mippy]

I went to a school with a uniform and it did not reduce bullying, because people would still pick on you for your coat, bag (and whether you wore it on one or two shoulders), hair etc. My coat and bag in Year 7 were both hand-me-downs from my mum and I got quite a bit of shit for it, along with my short hair. I always hated non-uniform day because I didn't wear designer labels or sportswear.

People also got round it. Girls coming into school with cardigans in the school colours, boys and girls wearing dark blue sweaters instead of the school one and somehow they got away with it.

This is my view too - kids will find something to pick on. I got really badly bullied for wearing a dress on non-uniform day in year 7, instead of sportswear, because somehow everyone else knew what to wear and I didn't.

My primary was non-uniform and I think that's one of the things that made the transition to secondary so difficult - suddenly I was being told what to wear down to the colour of the bobbles in my hair, when to stand and sit, and having to keep a diary of the homework I did that needed to be signed (which is great when you're dyspraxic and constantly losing/forgeting things), then more uniforms for PE and sports I didn't know how to play. It seems bizarre to me that all this stuff is meant to prepare kids for the world of work and yet no office I've worked in is remotely as prescriptive about personal dress and appearance.

[mippy]

Even I got told off for tying my sweater round my waist on a hot day. And for wearing a denim jacket. Mum was super pissed off about that as she had to buy me a new one.

I know kids do take the mickey going to the toilet, I used to when I was in primary school, but if you're on your period you're a bit screwed.

Just remembered: there was an end of year exam where the teacher invigilating insisted that I take off my blazer because it was a hot day. I didn't want to take it off, I was fine. The teacher refused to start until I took it off, repeating 'take it off' until I complied. I was 14, so it wasn't as though I was a toddler refusing to wear a coat in the rain. (Also, I was worried she'd make me take off my jumper as well, which was mostly hiding the old paint marks on the sleeve of my shirt.)

[Noodle Lizard]

Just remembered: there was an end of year exam where the teacher invigilating insisted that I take off my blazer because it was a hot day. I didn't want to take it off, I was fine. The teacher refused to start until I took it off, repeating 'take it off' until I complied. I was 14, so it wasn't as though I was a toddler refusing to wear a coat in the rain. (Also, I was worried she'd make me take off my jumper as well, which was mostly hiding the old paint marks on the sleeve of my shirt.)

They might've suspected you of cheating, I remember a few kids sewing notes to the inside lining of their blazer. Always seemed like the amount of time and effort it'd take to do that could've been spent just learning whatever was in the notes, but there you go.

We can all agree that exams are needlessly stressful bollocks, surely. Coursework seemed to provide a much more rounded demonstration of a student's capabilities and understanding of a subject - just more of a pain to mark, I suppose. It really confused me when a teacher informed us that some of the GCSE exams were designed to be unfinishable within the time limit - what on earth is the point in that?

[mippy]

That really wasn't it - I was known for being a swot. It was just a weird power trip because a 14 year old girl wasn't too hot in a jacket. Just pointless. Enough that I still remember it now and think wtf.

[Kelvin]

Expected to read a thread full of people taking the piss out of such a transparently made up / exaggerated story, but....

It's just bullshit, designed to provoke a reaction. As made up (or grossly distorted) as bendy bananas and "you can't say black boards!".

[Fambo Number Mive]

Bendy bananas was to get people against the EU though, while you cant see blackboard was invented to attack the left and "political coreectness"

What would be the purpose of distorting this story? More clicks? Maybe some parents might dislike the new headteachers but I cant see the paper running a story there isn't clear evidence of

[dr beat]

When I was at school there was a lot of bullshit to provoke a reaction.  It got one person multiple convictions and a place on a Register.  Only after complainants felt they could speak out finally after 40-odd years.

[Kelvin]

Bendy bananas was to get people against the EU though, while you cant see blackboard was invented to attack the left and "political coreectness"

What would be the purpose of distorting this story? More clicks? Maybe some parents might dislike the new headteachers but I cant see the paper running a story there isn't clear evidence of

To get their right wing readership nodding along with approval? To get some clicks from people on either side of the political spectrum arguing for/against it? Or just because the real story isnt interesting enough by itself, and they thought a bit of creative licence might make for a more eye-catching story?

I would be staggered if even half the details in that story are true, or occur as written. Putting aside the moral aspect, half of them would be a completely impractical and impossible to enforce every day. They're just lies.

[dr beat]

Perhaps we might have to agree to disagree about the provenance or the sustainability of these rules, but there does seem to be a depressing recent trend of heads/deputy heads going for a law-and-order backs to basiscs approach.  Even if its just attention seeking, it puts these notions out there and creates a culture, one that, as an educator, I feel is a very, very bad one IMO.  And surely you can't have noticed how it has elicited a lot of bad memories among posters on this thread?

[dr beat]

Or - if educators are playing a publicity game here, and not being entirely honest, is that still not something we should be very very worried about?

[Sebastian Cobb]

We can all agree that exams are needlessly stressful bollocks, surely. Coursework seemed to provide a much more rounded demonstration of a student's capabilities and understanding of a subject - just more of a pain to mark, I suppose. It really confused me when a teacher informed us that some of the GCSE exams were designed to be unfinishable within the time limit - what on earth is the point in that?

I don't think the solution is either/or (and for plenty of subjects isn't/wasn't), while exams disadvantage students who work poorly when stressed, I think there's plenty of slightly lazy students who do well in exams who would be pretty fucked with coursework.

[kalowski]

We can all agree that exams are needlessly stressful bollocks, surely. Coursework seemed to provide a much more rounded demonstration of a student's capabilities and understanding of a subject - just more of a pain to mark, I suppose. It really confused me when a teacher informed us that some of the GCSE exams were designed to be unfinishable within the time limit - what on earth is the point in that?

I can't agree. Exams are the fairest way to measure performance. Coursework is hideously biased towards the rich and middle class.
I'm watching the Euros so I'll have to explain later.

[Replies From View]

There are six roles at lunch and six children sit together at a table to eat. One pupil brings the food to the table and serves the other children. Another one pours the water while they all lay the table. Children learn how to lay the table properly. After eating the main course, one pupil clears everyone's plates throats.

[phantom_power]

It really confused me when a teacher informed us that some of the GCSE exams were designed to be unfinishable within the time limit - what on earth is the point in that?

Presumably because it is the best way to test across a spectrum of ability. It is probably really hard to have a test that is exactly hard enough that the best get 100% and the others somewhere below that so designing a test that is too hard then the best would get 80% (or whatever) and that would be the standard to judge everyone else on. As grading is usually done on a curve then no-one loses out with that method. The 10s will still get 10s etc

[Kankurette]

Perhaps we might have to agree to disagree about the provenance or the sustainability of these rules, but there does seem to be a depressing recent trend of heads/deputy heads going for a law-and-order backs to basiscs approach.  Even if its just attention seeking, it puts these notions out there and creates a culture, one that, as an educator, I feel is a very, very bad one IMO.  And surely you can't have noticed how it has elicited a lot of bad memories among posters on this thread?

Katherine Birbalsingh has a lot to answer for. IIRC she's the one who started all this.

[Dusty Substance]

Given how rude so many people are it would be good if they actually taught manners and courtesy at school. Teach kids to say "please", and "thank you", to not be a dick to shopworkers, to not queue skip and to not throw their fucking litter on the floor like a cunt.

Also, the phonetic alphabet needs to be mandatory to avoid cretins saying things like "B for Bertie" and "T for Tommy".

[Kankurette]

It always winds me up when people do that, if only because I'm a massive pedant and I want to go 'no, it's B for Bravo and T for Tango'.

I agree that basic courtesy wouldn't go amiss. I don't mean using the right spoon, I mean not slamming doors in people's faces or being an arsehole to service staff.

[Dusty Substance]

It always winds me up when people do that, if only because I'm a massive pedant and I want to go 'no, it's B for Bravo and T for Tango'.

Often when I use the correct phonetic alphabet I'll get a "Oooh - Hark at Vice Admiral Substance over here" kind of response. I mean, it's really not that difficult to learn. I learnt it when I was wearing shorts in cubs. 28 years old I was etc.

The "B for Bertie" particularly annoys me because a) It sounds like "D for dirty" and b) Who the hell is called Bertie in the 21st Century?

[willbo]

a teacher informed us that some of the GCSE exams were designed to be unfinishable within the time limit - what on earth is the point in that?

like the Kobuyashi Maru test in the star trek academy

[Johnny Yesno]

Given how rude so many people are it would be good if they actually taught manners and courtesy at school. Teach kids to say "please", and "thank you", to not be a dick to shopworkers, to not queue skip and to not throw their fucking litter on the floor like a cunt.

Young people get a bad press and in my experience, they are often polite to a fault. Perhaps if the rude old fuckers I keep encountering set more of an example, the young people who are slow on the uptake might get the idea.

Also, the phonetic alphabet needs to be mandatory to avoid cretins saying things like "B for Bertie" and "T for Tommy".

Often when I use the correct phonetic alphabet I'll get a "Oooh - Hark at Vice Admiral Substance over here" kind of response. I mean, it's really not that difficult to learn. I learnt it when I was wearing shorts in cubs. 28 years old I was etc.

The "B for Bertie" particularly annoys me because a) It sounds like "D for dirty" and b) Who the hell is called Bertie in the 21st Century?

Yeah, but what kind of weirdo would say 'D for dirty'? And the phonetic alphabet isn't that easy to learn to a standard where you can recall it in under pressure. I can recite it now as I sit here typing but there's still letters I struggle to recall in the middle of a phone conversation with a stranger.

I think you need to learn some manners and courtesy, old man, and cut people some slack.

[Dusty Substance]

Perhaps if the rude old fuckers I keep encountering set more of an example, the young people who are slow on the uptake might get the idea.

But those rude old fuckers were kids once.

And the phonetic alphabet isn't that easy to learn to a standard where you can recall it in under pressure. I can recite it now as I sit here typing but there's still letters I struggle to recall in the middle of a phone conversation with a stranger.k.

It's 26 words. It's really, really easy to remember.

[Johnny Yesno]

But those rude old fuckers were kids once.

Yeah, but now they don't have an excuse.

It's 26 words. It's really, really easy to remember.

Don't be a twat. You learned it when you were young. Everything's easier to learn when you're young. 26 unconnected words that you only use in phone conversations isn't that easy to learn in later life.

[Dusty Substance]

Don't be a twat. You learned it when you were young. Everything's easier to learn when you're young. 26 unconnected words that you only use in phone conversations isn't that easy to learn in later life.

Exactly my point. That's why it should be taught at school.

[Gurke and Hare]

It really doesn't matter. The point is to resolve ambiguity, which "T for Tommy" does just fine. You aren't calling in an air strike, you're telling the water board you've moved house.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Given how rude so many people are it would be good if they actually taught manners and courtesy at school. Teach kids to say "please", and "thank you", to not be a dick to shopworkers, to not queue skip and to not throw their fucking litter on the floor like a cunt

Happy with this on the condition that once you are an adult, unless there is a good reason such as health or caring duties, you have to relearn manners and courtesy every three years. No doubt the media and establishment who rely on ordinary people being selfish rude treats would call it woke and start a campaign against it.

I hate how in this society the ruder people are the more likely they are to get what they want. We urgently need change in our society.

[Midas]

PLZ and THX is ideology running amok. Be rude as fuck. Free yourself!

Consider the custom, in American society, of constantly saying "please" and "thank you." To do so is often treated as basic morality: we are constantly chiding children for forgetting to do it, just as the moral guardians of our society - teachers and ministers, for instance - do to everybody else. We often assume that the habit is universal, but... it is not. Like so many of our everyday courtesies, it is a kind of democratization of what was once a habit of feudal deference: the insistence on treating absolutely everyone the way that one used only to have to treat a lord or similar hierarchical superior.

Perhaps this is not so in every case. Imagine we are on a crowded bus, looking for a seat. A fellow passenger moves her bag aside to clear one; we smile, or nod, or make some other little gesture of acknowl­edgment. Or perhaps we actually say "Thank you." Such a gesture is simply a recognition of common humanity: we are acknowledging that the woman who had been blocking the seat is not a mere physical obstacle but a human being, and that we feel genuine gratitude toward someone we will likely never see again. None of this is generally true when one asks someone across the table to "please pass the salt," or when the postman thanks you for signing for a delivery. We think of these simultaneously as meaningless formalities and as the very moral basis of society. Their apparent unimportance can be measured by the fact that almost no one would refuse, on principle, to say "please" or "thank you" in just about any situation - even those who might find it almost impossible to say "I'm sorry" or "I apologize."

In fact, the English "please" is short for "if you please," "if it pleases you to do this" - it is the same in most European languages (French s'il vous plaît, Spanish por favor). Its literal meaning is "you are under no obligation to do this." "Hand me the salt. Not that I am saying that you have to!" This is not true; there is a social obligation, and it would be almost impossible not to comply. But etiquette largely consists of the exchange of polite fictions (to use less polite language, lies). When you ask someone to pass the salt, you are also giving them an order; by attaching the word "please," you are saying that it is not an order.

But, in fact, it is. In English, "thank you" derives from "think," it originally meant, "I will remember what you did for me'' - which is usually not true either - but in other languages (the Portuguese obrigado is a good example) the standard term follows the form of the English "much obliged" - it actually means "I am in your debt." The French merci is even more graphic: it derives from "mercy," as in begging for mercy; by saying it you are symbolically placing yourself in your bene­factor's power - since a debtor is, after all, a criminal. Saying "you're welcome," or "it's nothing" (French de rien, Spanish de nada) - the latter has at least the advantage of often being literally true - is a way of reassuring the one to whom one has passed the salt that you are not actually inscribing a debit in your imaginary moral account book. So in saying "my pleasure" - you are saying, "No, actually, it's a credit, not a debit - you did me a favor because in asking me to pass the salt, you gave me the opportunity to do something I found rewarding in itself!"

Decoding the tacit calculus of debt ("I owe you one," "No, you don't owe me anything," "Actually, if anything, it's me who owes you," as if inscribing and then scratching off so many infinitesimal entries in an endless ledger) makes it easy to understand why this sort of thing is often viewed not as the quintessence of morality, but as the quintes­sence of middle-class morality. True, by now middle-class sensibilities dominate society. But there are still those who find the practice odd. Those at the very top of society often still feel that deference is owed primarily to hierarchical superiors and find it slightly idiotic to watch postmen and pastry cooks taking turns pretending to treat each other like little feudal lords. At the other extreme, those who grew up in what in Europe are called "popular" environments - small towns, poor neighborhoods, anyplace where there is still an assumption that people who are not enemies will, ordinarily, take care of one another - will often find it insulting to be constantly told, in effect, that there is some chance they might not do their job as a waiter or taxi driver correctly, or provide houseguests with tea. In other words, middle-class etiquette insists that we are all equals, but it does so in a very particular way. On the one hand, it pretends that nobody is giving anybody orders (think here of the burly security guard at the mall who appears before someone walking into a restricted area and says, "Can I help you?"); on the other, it treats every gesture... as if it were really a form of exchange. As a result, middle-class society has to be endlessly recreated, as a kind of constant flickering game of shadows, the criss-crossing of an infinity of momen­tary debt relations, each one almost instantly cancelled out.

All of this is a relatively recent innovation. The habit of always saying "please" and "thank you" first began to take hold during the commercial revolution of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries­ among those very middle classes who were largely responsible for it. It is the language of bureaus, shops, and offices, and over the course of the last five hundred years it has spread across the world along with them. It is also merely one token of a much larger philosophy, a set of assumptions of what humans are and what they owe one another, that have by now become so deeply ingrained that we cannot see them.

Excerpt from Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber.

[Midas]

PASS THE SALT CUNT

dance for it, funny little man!

[Replies From View]

Also, the phonetic alphabet needs to be mandatory to avoid cretins saying things like "B for Bertie" and "T for Tommy".

"P for Pneumonia.  K for Knighthood."