Black Widow

[touchingcloth]

The opening featured a montage of Cold War style still images with a downtempo chanteuse version of Smells Like Teen Spirit - it was like Adam Curtis doing the John Lewis Christmas Ad.

Other than that, 7/10. Fine.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Sounds like something propose designed to wind me up at the start

[beanheadmcginty]

Looking forward to Florence Pugh fully taking over as Black Widow after this. I can't really put my finger on why, but she's far more convincing as a hard case. She just seems like she could fuck people up, whereas Johansson never convinced me she could. Also enjoyed her mockery of the superhero landing pose.

[touchingcloth]

I thought the landing pose stuff was a little bit too mega, or at least a kind of meta which jarred a bit within the MCU. If you're going to insist on everyone being clad in skintight PVC, the way they jump isn't really fair game to comment on.

The helicopter crash felt a bit slapstick to me.

[colacentral]

I thought it was pretty bad. The bad accents were distracting; it was poorly paced; poorly edited; filled wall to wall with inane exposition. It's hard to believe they had an extra year of post production and this is what they ended up with. Doesn't even reach the low bar of average tier Marvel.

[stonkers]

Not terrible or anything but total by the numbers Marvel, elevated by David Harbor and Florence Pugh's wacky antics. Feels like it belongs on Disney Plus, especially with the post-credits scene.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I thought this was great. Felt more like a James Bond film than MCU, which is a plus point. Florence Pugh amazing as always. Winstone accent dodgy but that's a given.

[SteveDave]

I enjoyed it for what it was but I especially liked Ray Winstone turning into Perry Benson.

[Dr Rock]

especially with the post-credits scene.

Which falls apart on so many levels as soon as you think about it.

[phantom_power]

Which falls apart on so many levels as soon as you think about it.

How so?

[BlodwynPig]

I read the wikipedia synopsis. Looked like a school child had written the plot.

[Dr Rock]

How so?

Spoiler alert

Aren't The Avengers very famous, even Hawkeye? Plus Yelena as Nat's sister could have countless stories from Nat as to how close they were. She even got some in the movie. Does the world know that BW is dead? What did they tell the world, that she died saving the universe, I expect. Is BW's grave in a secret location? If so, Yelena must've asked The Avengers how she died, and possibly would have been told about her self-sacrifice. And even if she didn't know any of this, how does Elaine Benes know what she does and doesn't know? I know she's connected high up, but it's very risky to try and fool her into thinking Hawkeye killed her when Yelena could've said 'That is Clint Barton, a very old colleague of Nat's. He would never harm her. Why are you trying to get me to kill him?'

[close]

[MoreauVasz]

I read the wikipedia synopsis. Looked like a school child had written the plot.

Why do you hate women?

[phantom_power]

Spoiler alert

Aren't The Avengers very famous, even Hawkeye? Plus Yelena as Nat's sister could have countless stories from Nat as to how close they were. She even got some in the movie. Does the world know that BW is dead? What did they tell the world, that she died saving the universe, I expect. Is BW's grave in a secret location? If so, Yelena must've asked The Avengers how she died, and possibly would have been told about her self-sacrifice. And even if she didn't know any of this, how does Elaine Benes know what she does and doesn't know? I know she's connected high up, but it's very risky to try and fool her into thinking Hawkeye killed her when Yelena could've said 'That is Clint Barton, a very old colleague of Nat's. He would never harm her. Why are you trying to get me to kill him?'

[close]

All that given, it would still be believable that JLD's character could use Yelena's grief to turn her against him, that he allowed her to sacrifice herself rather than him doing it himself. I don't think she is saying Hawkeye killed her, but that he is responsible for her death, which you could fairly easily twist the truth into suggesting, given there were no witnesses and there is only Barton's word for what happened

[Pseudopath]

Thought this was pretty good fun - essentially a live-action version of The Incredibles - but hardly the most mind-blowing of cinematic starts for Phase 4 of the MCU. Pugh and Harbour acted the rest of them off-screen, Johannson looked like she'd just turned up for the paycheck and Winstone should really stick to the gambling ads.

[BlodwynPig]

Why do you hate women?

only child women

[Dex Sawash]

Ephebophobe

[phantom_power]

Thought this was pretty good fun - essentially a live-action version of The Incredibles - but hardly the most mind-blowing of cinematic starts for Phase 4 of the MCU. Pugh and Harbour acted the rest of them off-screen, Johannson looked like she'd just turned up for the paycheck and Winstone should really stick to the gambling ads.

I don't see this as kicking off Phase 4. More a palate-cleanser before The Eternals kicks off Phase  proper with all-new characters and stories. This is almost an appendix to Endgame

[Alberon]

It was okay, but I can't say it really entertained me that much. I don't mind the relatively smaller stakes, you can't save the universe every film. For instance the second Ant-man film revolved around saving two lives, but (apart from Ant-man's Flanderisation) was a much better film.

This felt like a TV movie much more than the other Marvel films - even the other ones I've seen on the small screen. The end credit sequence only heightened the feeling I was watching a Disney+ omnibus.

The joke about that pose were good though.

[olliebean]

Got bored with this after 45 minutes. (Actually got bored with it within the first half hour, then spent 15-20 minutes convincing myself I was bored enough with it to pack it in and watch something fun instead.) I've managed to sit through every other MCU film (albeit on the small screen I gave up on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and I suspect I won't be arsed to watch the Hawkeye series), so this one must be doing something wrong. Just didn't feel engaged with it in the slightest.

[touchingcloth]

The joke about that pose were good though.

I found the meta bits didn't really land. You can't undercut a pose and a tight red leather suit for lols whilst also having the person from The Cube as the baddie.

[The Culture Bunker]

Spoiler alert

Aren't The Avengers very famous, even Hawkeye? Plus Yelena as Nat's sister could have countless stories from Nat as to how close they were. She even got some in the movie. Does the world know that BW is dead? What did they tell the world, that she died saving the universe, I expect. Is BW's grave in a secret location? If so, Yelena must've asked The Avengers how she died, and possibly would have been told about her self-sacrifice. And even if she didn't know any of this, how does Elaine Benes know what she does and doesn't know? I know she's connected high up, but it's very risky to try and fool her into thinking Hawkeye killed her when Yelena could've said 'That is Clint Barton, a very old colleague of Nat's. He would never harm her. Why are you trying to get me to kill him?'

[close]

Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention,

Spoiler alert

but my understanding was that Natasha and Yolanda hadn't seen each other since they split up as children in Cuba, so no time to hear 'countless stories'.

And the world does know Black Widow is dead, as it was referenced at the start of the last Spider-Man film, with the video tribute to her, Iron Man and Vision set to Whitney Houston's warbling.

[close]

[Dr Rock]

Ok, you're right on the first point,

Spoiler alert

not sure how Val knows this, but they recently had a big mission together and Natasha could have told her then, in depth. Also Val doesn't know what happened on Vormir, which Yelena must surely know, so she could ask 'how would you know this?'

[close]

I wonder what the world knows re BWs death/everything that happened in Endgame. No reason to keep any of it secret is there? It affects everyone.

[bakabaka]

Yes, what this film needed was yet another ten-minute scene of tedious exposition in dodgy accents while the talkers circled each other threateningly.

So much talking...

[olliebean]

Didn't spot Greg Davies, btw. Was he the one in the mask?

[Butchers Blind]

Can some explain how

Spoiler alert

the daughter is older than Black Widow but she blew her up when she was a child

[close]

[Dr Rock]

Is she?

[Magnum Valentino]

Didn't Deadpool 2 also have a joke about the "super hero pose"?

I didn't think it felt like the Incredibles at all even if it nicked the trailer gag of not being able to get into the suit.

[bgmnts]

Is Scarlett Johansson really sexy in this?

[The Culture Bunker]

Didn't Deadpool 2 also have a joke about the "super hero pose"?

The first Deadpool flick had him commenting that the classic superhero landing pose is very tough on the knees.