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March 28, 2024, 08:42:40 AM

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Black Widow

Started by touchingcloth, July 08, 2021, 11:10:27 PM

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bgmnts

I had no idea you could do that, I thought you just had to put up with gobshites in the cinema.

Gamechanger.

Custard

As much as I enjoy almost everyone involved, Scarlett, Pugh, Hopper from Strange Things, Weisz, sadly I thought this was a bit weak sauce. At points actively boring

It was a very by the numbers mid tier Marvel romp, with a few funny lines and action sequences. In fact, I think it could've done with a bit more action, as there are some very drawn out talky bits that seem to just go on and on

I'd have liked more of BW on her own, beating baddies and blowing things up, instead of constant wisecracking with her family

The credits sequence just made me sigh. Not watching Hawkeye, as he really does nothing for me, and the Disney+ shows just haven't been very good so far

Florence Pugh is fantastic though, and as others have said, strangely more believable as someone who'd easily kick your head in and steal your pin number. She can stick around

Ray Winstone was terrible

Jockice

I saw this despite having almost no interest in or knowledge of Marvel comics/superheroes etc. But what I have is a mate who likes organising* trips to the cinema and I'll usually go along if I have nothing else on that night. It was okay. Didn't have a clue what was going on, as I don't with most films I go and see with him. He likes noisy action things, as do most of the others who go. Although on our previous excursion we saw The Father, which was confusing in a different way.

*As I have a card which gives me a free 'carer' ticket, I said I'd get the lot and they could pay me on the night. Which they did, but Christ, the fuss this bloke made beforehand. It was like he was setting up a royal visit and he'd asked me to make their meals before realising I'm a staunch republican. Apparently he doesn't trust me because I was late so we missed the start of Saving Private Ryan. In...ooh...1998.

samadriel

I liked bits of this, the odd fight here and there, Florence Pugh, David Harbour... I actually liked the 'flashing back to when they're making their plans' device.  I'm glad I didn't pay for it though, there were long stretches of dullness that made me restless.  Not one of the better Marvel movies, although I wouldn't say it was Iron Man 2/Thor 2 bad, it just needed a bit more pep.

touchingcloth

Is the Red Guardian supposed to be lying when he talks about fighting Captain America? America and Russia were allies when Steve was frozen.

Also, why does his accent switch from impeccable American to cod Ruskie the instant he lands in Cuba? And his language change from fluent to broken English?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: touchingcloth on July 18, 2021, 09:22:51 PM
Is the Red Guardian supposed to be lying when he talks about fighting Captain America? America and Russia were allies when Steve was frozen.
One of the other prisoners calls bullshit on his stories, pointing out Cap was on ice when Red Guardian was in his pomp, and has his hands mangled for doing so.

druss

Winstone has just taken the prize for worst MCU villain ever and he has serious competition. But he is the worst.

Florence Pugh was good.

Film was good fun on occasion with a couple of nice emotional moments. Overall it's probably the worst MCU film since Iron Man 2.

touchingcloth

I rated it higher than the Guardians films I think. Higher than Hulk as well, obvs.

druss

Quote from: touchingcloth on July 23, 2021, 09:15:15 PM
I rated it higher than the Guardians films I think. Higher than Hulk as well, obvs.
Ah I really liked the guardians films. Agree about Hulk, was that not before Iron Man 2 though?

The Culture Bunker

I think Winstone was a weak point, but I didn't quite understand why in a film full of Russian characters they only had (I think) one Russian speaker in the main cast who ended up having one line. I'm not a Russian speaker but any means, but even I recognised too many of the cast were doing "dodgy East European accents learned from old Bond films".

I liked the film well enough, but I think it could have benefited from more actual actors from that part of the world.

touchingcloth

Quote from: druss on July 23, 2021, 10:26:11 PM
Ah I really liked the guardians films. Agree about Hulk, was that not before Iron Man 2 though?

Too much testosterone in Guardians for me.

Hulk was the second film in the franchise. I don't think they'd really got to grips with the MCU at that point.

stonkers

Quote from: touchingcloth on July 24, 2021, 01:55:19 AM
Hulk was the second film in the franchise. I don't think they'd really got to grips with the MCU at that point.

The Incredible Hulk script started out as a sequel to the Ang Lee Hulk but by the time it was really getting developed Marvel had decided on the shared universe thing. Yeah at that point it was a fairly vague plan to do the Avengers, which is why there's the tacked on scene at the end with Tony Stark (which gets retconned slightly) and all the stuff about the super soldier serum but no real direct mention of Captain America.

Custard

Oh dear

BBC News - Scarlett Johansson sues Disney over streaming of Black Widow
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58017445

Josef K

Hard to feel too concerned about multi-millionaire Scarlett Johansson, but Disney are clearly in the wrong and it does set a worrying precedent

greenman

Really a lot of the push towards streaming across the entertainment industry has been because its a way to screw the creative side out of as much income as possible.

chveik

QuoteIn a strongly worded statement, it said her legal action was "especially sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the Covid-19 pandemic".

they really have no shame

madhair60

they opened their theme parks in the middle of the pandemic.

dissolute ocelot

It's hard to feel sorry for Scarlet(t) Johan(n)s(s)on who has reportedly already got $20m for this movie. But I assume it means she's having nothing to do with Marvel ever again.

greenman

I'm guessing the fact this went public rather than being settled behind closed doors is that Disney is trying to make sure the shift to streaming is a shift towards themselves keeping as much profit as possible.

Glebe

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on July 30, 2021, 03:33:09 PMIt's hard to feel sorry for Scarlet(t) Johan(n)s(s)on who has reportedly already got $20m for this movie. But I assume it means she's having nothing to do with Marvel ever again.

Actually, yeah, given that she's finished playing Black Widow.

Goldentony

did Black Widow ever get released?

touchingcloth

Quote from: Glebe on July 30, 2021, 07:36:18 PM
Actually, yeah, given that she's finished playing Black Widow.

Has she? Given that she's had a whole movie after she was killed off, I wouldn't be so sure.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on July 30, 2021, 03:33:09 PM
It's hard to feel sorry for Scarlet(t) Johan(n)s(s)on who has reportedly already got $20m for this movie. But I assume it means she's having nothing to do with Marvel ever again.
Haha yes, the multi-billion dollar corporation with a long history of treating entertainment law as a mild inconvenience rather than anything to be respected (unless it's protecting their stolen IPs) are definitely the good guys in this instance.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: touchingcloth on July 30, 2021, 07:47:13 PM
Has she? Given that she's had a whole movie after she was killed off, I wouldn't be so sure.
Well, the whole film (bar the last scene) was set before 'Endgame' and, as said before, pretty much served as means to introduce a "new" Black Widow.

I suppose the whole multiverse thing means everything is on the table now (not in a good way, I think) but given these legal antics, not sure Johansson will be keen to go back into the Disney machine unless there's huge sums on the table.

touchingcloth

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on July 30, 2021, 08:02:27 PM
Well, the whole film (bar the last scene) was set before 'Endgame' and, as said before, pretty much served as means to introduce a "new" Black Widow.

I suppose the whole multiverse thing means everything is on the table now (not in a good way, I think) but given these legal antics, not sure Johansson will be keen to go back into the Disney machine unless there's huge sums on the table.

Not just the multiverse, but this plus Captain Marvel means there is precedent for setting films in the past, so in the (unlikely, unthinkable) event that Pugh is a less popular Widow, they wouldn't find it hard to write Scarlett back in.

Alberon

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on July 30, 2021, 07:48:43 PM
Haha yes, the multi-billion dollar corporation with a long history of treating entertainment law as a mild inconvenience rather than anything to be respected (unless it's protecting their stolen IPs) are definitely the good guys in this instance.

It seems a bit odd defending someone who just earned $20m for one film, but she should be paid fairly considering what the film studio will be earning. All depends on what is in her contract I suppose, and then legal wrangling lasting for years.

Disney are bastards though. There was the case with SF author Alan Dean Foster. He wrote the first Star Wars spinoff novel in 1978. Disney decided that when they bought the novel in the acquisition of Lucasfilm they didn't buy the obligation to pay Foster any royalties, despite still selling the book. It seems the issue was finally resolved when Foster went public, but this shit isn't uncommon.

chveik

Quote from: Alberon on July 30, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
It seems a bit odd defending someone who just earned $20m for one film, but she should be paid fairly considering what the film studio will be earning. All depends on what is in her contract I suppose, and then legal wrangling lasting for years.

let's say i'd rather she have that money than Disney

Lord Mandrake

Emma Stone and Emily Blunt lawsuits incoming. Premier access is probably over.

dissolute ocelot

This is fucking terrible. David Harbour is entertaining, Florence Pugh is good but has been much better, but otherwise it's a pile of poop wrapped in a cynical girl-power ribbon. Scar-Jo barely manages a performance; she's never the most demonstrative actor but in something like Lucy at least stands out. The film gives her nothing to do except run around meeting people who're more interesting than she is. Even the nerdy British guy who improbably supplies her with flying machines has more personality. The plot is utterly nonsensical, from the idea of putting a Russian superhero undercover as a regular American dude, to the last act with yet another flying superfortress seeing how many laws of physics it can defy. The decision to have everyone putting on Russian accents is an awful one; Ray Winstone is particularly terrible, but it's unnecessary and removes any emotional affect. Cate Shortland used to be an interesting director with Somersault and Lore, but aside from some decent punch-ups and a childhood scene that musters a flash of the poetry of her debut, she doesn't have any hold on the material beyond "keep it moving". And the music is awful. But the pigs are cute. If I was Johansson I'd be suing Disney to ensure it was never released.

greenman

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on October 17, 2021, 10:47:59 PM
This is fucking terrible. David Harbour is entertaining, Florence Pugh is good but has been much better, but otherwise it's a pile of poop wrapped in a cynical girl-power ribbon. Scar-Jo barely manages a performance; she's never the most demonstrative actor but in something like Lucy at least stands out. The film gives her nothing to do except run around meeting people who're more interesting than she is. Even the nerdy British guy who improbably supplies her with flying machines has more personality. The plot is utterly nonsensical, from the idea of putting a Russian superhero undercover as a regular American dude, to the last act with yet another flying superfortress seeing how many laws of physics it can defy. The decision to have everyone putting on Russian accents is an awful one; Ray Winstone is particularly terrible, but it's unnecessary and removes any emotional affect. Cate Shortland used to be an interesting director with Somersault and Lore, but aside from some decent punch-ups and a childhood scene that musters a flash of the poetry of her debut, she doesn't have any hold on the material beyond "keep it moving". And the music is awful. But the pigs are cute. If I was Johansson I'd be suing Disney to ensure it was never released.

Finally having seen it honestly felt it was middling Marvel, obviously looking to copy The Winter Solider in style/story but not having either the skill of the Russo's or the character setup to do it as well.

Didnt really have a problem with the plot, I mean all Marvel is pushing suspension of disbelief somewhat and I don't think that mission is too bad, surely the idea is he was involved in some kind of raid to steal the formula after having built up enough cover to get access? the whole thing is having to deal with shifting the narrative into the post cold war era which makes things a bit sketchy.

Ironically given the fuss about Disney+ I actually felt it would have been better off as a series like Falcon and the Winter Solider. As it was it just felt like it was trying to introduce rather too much at once plus having to reheat the story of the lead character in a very short time. The Russo's I felt used Johansson really well, a lot of the drama of there films depends on her but here as you say it did feel more like she was used to introduce new characters and too often it fall back to rather on the nose girl power to cover not really having devolped motivations very well.