Gervais on "Wernham Blogg" podcast for the Office 20th anniversary

[willbo]

i thought Gervais made a really entertaining Louis Theroux/Ruby Wax type quirky annoying interviewer in those shows. I'd have liked to see him continue down that career path.

[Retinend]

To be honest I was never really convinced by the idea that Shandling was sincerely trying to show up or humiliate Gervais in that interview. I remember there being a broad consensus on here at the time of the broadcast that it was devastating and vindicating evidence that Gervais's own comedy hero actually hated and resented him just like we all did, but that always struck me as a bit of wishful projection. I think Shandling's own explanation that it was a bit of a crossed-wires situation where he was trying to craft a tense, awkward improv scene on the hoof - while Gervais was coming in primed for an earnest, deep-dive interview - seems to line up well enough.

My memory of that episode is very clearly that Shandling treated him as a peon, and Gervais was clearly hurt by how he was being treated, at one point asking "was there anything you liked?" about his show, Extras, and getting some withering response. I was ensconced in the CaB consensus at that time, however, so it would be interesting to revisit it with a more neutral frame of mind.

[mr. logic]

I got the impression that Shandling had liked and admired what he saw of the Office, and was dismayed by the first series of Extras, and just found that more interesting to discuss. It was a fascinating piece of television.

[colacentral]

To be honest I was never really convinced by the idea that Shandling was sincerely trying to show up or humiliate Gervais in that interview. I remember there being a broad consensus on here at the time of the broadcast that it was devastating and vindicating evidence that Gervais's own comedy hero actually hated and resented him just like we all did, but that always struck me as a bit of wishful projection. I think Shandling's own explanation that it was a bit of a crossed-wires situation where he was trying to craft a tense, awkward improv scene on the hoof - while Gervais was coming in primed for an earnest, deep-dive interview - seems to line up well enough.

I think Shandling's explanation later on was just guilty arse covering. I imagine people like Seinfeld asked him about it (because Seinfeld for whatever reason seems to genuinely like Gervais) and Shandling felt like he would throw a bone to Gervais without outright apologising. Obviously, it worked, because Gervais is now pointing to that as proof that Shandling actually did admire him really, when in reality, I think it was probably a case of Shandling thinking Gervais was a cunt but that he still shouldn't have treated him as rudely as he did.

[Old Nehamkin]

I think Shandling's explanation later on was just guilty arse covering. I imagine people like Seinfeld asked him about it (because Seinfeld for whatever reason seems to genuinely like Gervais) and Shandling felt like he would throw a bone to Gervais without outright apologising. Obviously, it worked, because Gervais is now pointing to that as proof that Shandling actually did admire him really, when in reality, I think it was probably a case of Shandling thinking Gervais was a cunt but that he still shouldn't have treated him as rudely as he did.

I find it pretty easy to imagine Garry Shandling in 2006 having sincere admiration and respect for the co-writer and star of the incredibly well-received zeitgeist-grabbing hit The Office, even if he did (possibly) think that Extras was a bit of a weaker follow-up. I don't see why he would feel any strong personal antipathy towards him. Gervais certainly does come off as pretty cloying and out of his depth in that interview, but Shandling is bringing his weird evasive/belligerent energy from the get-go and I can sympathise with Gervais a bit for being thrown off and not really knowing how to counter a legend like Shandling putting him in a corner like that. Maybe Shandling really was just trying to fuck with and humiliate Gervais because he found him personally annoying or didn't respect him as an artist or whatever, but it still doesn't quite ring true to me and feels a bit too much like neat wish fulfilment for the growing contingent of people who just generally hate Gervais and want to see him belittled and undermined (not unjustly!).

[colacentral]

I find it pretty easy to imagine Garry Shandling in 2006 having sincere admiration and respect for the co-writer and star of the incredibly well-received zeitgeist-grabbing hit The Office, even if he did (possibly) think that Extras was a bit of a weaker follow-up. I don't see why he would feel any strong personal antipathy towards him. Gervais does come off as a bit cloying and out-of-his-depth in that interview, but Shandling is bringing his weird evasive/belligerent energy from the get-go and I can sympathise with Gervais a bit for being thrown off and not really knowing how to counter a legend like Shandling putting him in a corner like that. Maybe Shandling really was just trying to fuck with and humiliate Gervais because he found him personally annoying or didn't respect him as an artist or whatever, but it still doesn't ring true to me and feels a bit too much like neat wish fulfilment for the growing contingent of people who just hate Gervais and want to see him belittled and undermined (not unjustly!).

But Shandling isn't just "roasting" Gervais or trying to out funny him in that interview, he's pointing out specific things about Gervais that ring true, like the moment when he says he's "too much in his own head." You couldn't sum Gervais up more succinctly than that. Or pointing to individual moments in Extras that laugh at minorities and disabled people, things which Gervais has leaned more on in the years since. Shandling is just one of the few high profile American comedians intelligent enough to see through Gervais straight away. It's not wish fulfilment at all, it's right there in the interview.

I think you're projecting your own opinion of Extras on to Shandling, assuming he thought of it as a "slightly weaker follow up." He rips into it, and quite rightly. I've never understood why Extras gets any credit on this forum. Boring After Life esque protagonists and melodrama, the low hanging fruit of shock humour targeting minorities and disabled people as to be repeated in Derek and Life's Too Short, and Comic Relief style celebrity cameos with the most obvious angle to parody them from. Bear in mind on the latter point that The Larry Sanders Show had already done the celebrity cameo thing much more successfully.

The Judd Apatow documentary on Shandling shows how thoughtful about his work he was, and how much he strived to make things that had meaning, to the point of turning down chat show offers and shying away from the limelight. IE the polar opposite personality to Gervais.

[Tony Yeboah]

Ricky's on the Talking Sopranos podcast this week. Hey, what you gonna do?

[wrec]

Ricky's on the Talking Sopranos podcast this week. Hey, what you gonna do?

Not pleased about that. The interviews with cast members have been mostly fascinating, and the ones with writers, crew etc always include some insights and quality anecdotes. Listened to the one with supposed superfan Peter Davidson recently and it was the first I thought was pointless, he had a very superficial take on the series despite claiming to have watched it about ten times. I'm expecting Mr "I can't read books because I make up my own superior story" to be worse. I have a lot of time for the hosts, and Imperioli especially seems to have his head screwed on when it comes to acting and drama, so it's painful to hear him praising Afterlife, worse when he admitted the didn't bother watching The Wire, for example... not that anyone has to, but that's a bad imbalance... (I should mention I once made Michael laugh on Instagram with a Smiths pun so consider him a close personal friend)

[willbo]

I disagree. If there's one thing Gervais has it's a genuine love for the TV he likes. I think he will be good on the Sopranos podcast.

Anyway, I think Gervais was a pretty good sport to go on Wernham Blogg, considering that he doesn't have to and doesn't like talking about Merchant anymore. It shows how much connection to his regular fans he still has as I can't imagine Merchant going on it now.

[peanutbutter]

I'd say Shandling's account is pretty accurate, he was intrigued by the weird energy and trying to find a way to make it work into something interesting. It probably was a bit unfair on Gervais to expect him to be able to play ball but it was also at a point where Gervais was just going on a big massive victory lap of Americans praising him for the Office and he was totally blindsighted by the idea of something remotely challenging so it was that first time that he was massively exposed as not being all he was being hyped up as



Haven't seen anything ever from Shandling to suggest he'd be such a cunt that he'd deliberately tank an interview on someone else. I think he came into it with quite a high opinion of Gervais and expected too much of him (and possibly assumed the show interviewing him wasn't meant to be a very big deal so it was okay to riff on), which he subsequently blamed himself for.

[BeardFaceMan]

I think the main problem stemmed from Shandling thinking he was there to be interviewed and Gervais thinking it was going to be two comedy equals having a chat.

[Joe Oakes]

I think Shandling was being honest when he said the reason it was so jarring was because he was taken aback that Gervais (or his production company) ignored his request for him to interview Gervais first. But he's underplaying how furious he was, he wasn't trying to do something 'interesting', he was pissed off. I guess Gervais thought it would undermine the 'Meets' theme unless their first meeting was filmed for his show, so pretended the message never got to him.

[The Ombudsman]

I enjoyed the other Meets I've seen, Larry David and Christopher Guest were good value.

He did an interview show with Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK and Chris Rock that I thought was alright but it did show Ricky wanting to be in the club a little too much.

Certainly someone who you either like or loathe. There are a lot worse comedians out there for sure. I've seen his stand-up once, it was a warm up/new material gig and felt his stage-craft was well honed. There was a little less pressure I guess in the warm up shows which maybe led to it being a more relaxed performance. I was surprised at how well he worked with the audience, it did feel like more of a chat than a set, which I quite liked. That said I still think his best work was the radio shows and the podcasts. Never liked any of his films. I don't think perhaps they were aimed for my demographic.

I remembered the other day he was very chummy with Robin Ince at the start of his career. Looking at his follow list I saw he didn't follow Ince on Twitter. There seems to be a theme of him working with various people then the relationship going cold. As with all these things you never know the details. Might be nothing to it.

[C_Larence]

There seems to be a theme of him working with various people then the relationship going cold. As with all these things you never know the details. Might be nothing to it.

https://youtu.be/LideSwXtEIk

Yeah it's a real headscratcher

[checkoutgirl]

I'm expecting Mr "I can't read books because I make up my own superior story" to be worse.

That's the essence of why it would be good to watch. Assuming he brings everything around to him, which he almost certainly will. I couldn't bear to watch him and Dawkins in the same room because the smug level would reach critical mass, but this sounds about right for a hate watch/listen.

[badaids]

Ive just noticed that Gervais is on the Talking Sopranos podcast - fuck knows why.  Might skip that episode.

[The Ombudsman]

https://youtu.be/LideSwXtEIk

Yeah it's a real headscratcher

Ha, yes had seen that before. Maybe people do just get sick of him!

[Barry Admin]

If I recall correctly, Gervais never followed him, and perhaps vice versa. Any suggestion they had fallen out was met by Gervais doing that fake hyena cackle, and saying "if I want to talk to him, I can just phone the cunt."

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Ha, yes had seen that before. Maybe people do just get sick of him!

Well you would, wouldn't you? If you were a colleague he'd chosen to bully 'for a laugh'?

A lot of people who've worked with Gervais have nothing but good things to say about him; he's generous, pleasant, easygoing etc. And I daresay that's true. But they haven't been subjected to the bullying that Ince, Pilkington and that editor (?) from The Office had to put up with.

Like all bullies, Gervais picks on people who he perceives as having lower status. People who won't stand up to him, because they have too much to lose. I mean, he's not going to wrestle Penelope Wilton to the ground and fart on her head, is he?

You don't have to read too deeply between the lines whenever Pilkington and Merchant* talk about their reasons for branching out on their own. Merchant is always very diplomatic, but Pilkington can never quite disguise the fact that he'd had enough. He didn't need to put up with that behaviour anymore.

<sub>* I once read a very telling interview with Merchant in which he talked about the early days of his friendship with Gervais. The latter presumably felt he'd found a new plaything, someone he could play hilarious pranks on, but Merchant told him in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't put up with that shit. So Gervais never bothered him in that way again.

I suspect - and we'll probably never know for sure - that Merchant just eventually grew tired of Gervais' megalomania and lack of self-discipline.</sub>

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

If I recall correctly, Gervais never followed him, and perhaps vice versa. Any suggestion they had fallen out was met by Gervais doing that fake hyena cackle, and saying "if I want to talk to him, I can just phone the cunt."

Ince turned up as a guest on Gervais' short-lived podcast a couple of years ago, they're still friends. But the dynamic had changed slightly; apart from a bit of gentle ribbing, Gervais didn't treat Ince as a hapless figure of fun. It was all quite genial, really.

EDIT: I realise that this contradicts my previous post, during which I mentioned Ince, but I think it's probably fair to assume that the successful middle-aged comedian Robin Ince no longer feels inclined to play along with his old friend's bullying bullshit. Or maybe Gervais just isn't like that anymore? I dunno. This is all slightly gossipy conjecture now!

[Retinend]

Looking at his follow list I saw he didn't follow Ince on Twitter. There seems to be a theme of him working with various people then the relationship going cold. As with all these things you never know the details. Might be nothing to it.

The Ince example looks shaky now.

I take this back - see below

[Retinend]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUo-WM_ovw
Ricky Gervais - Taping Nigel
161,598 viewsSep 8, 2010

back in the day, this video was used as evidence that Gervais was a bully through and through.

Just as a straw poll, who still finds it shocking?

[willbo]

Robin Ince -

"But I have no envy of Karl Pilkington at all. When I got asked to do the last tour, Science, it was quite easy to turn down. I didn't want to swap my mental health for money.

After the Fame tour I thought I'd never do anything with him again. Because it was monstrous, and it was horrible and bizarre. The way that everyone joined in, it really was very Lord of the Flies and of course I am very Piggy-like.

With the distance of time, I can kind of laugh at it but... today, as a parent, in my 40s, I don't feel I could handle being squealed at constantly, having make up put on my face while a load of tech crew and Matt, his tour manager, dance around in a tribal manner.

That was one of those moments, when the money kept going up, and I said, no, I'm honestly not going to do it.

It's amazing, when you turn down money. It's a far better feeling than when you are making it – as long as you've got enough to survive, of course. You go, 'Oh, what a relief'."

[Retinend]

Wow. That actually does sound like they fell out, then - big time.

[willbo]

he's said other milder/more friendly things about him since I think. He just really didn't wanna tour with him anymore around that time.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

They've also appeared on a podcast together since then, as I mentioned earlier.

[sutin]

Robin Ince -

"But I have no envy of Karl Pilkington at all. When I got asked to do the last tour, Science, it was quite easy to turn down. I didn't want to swap my mental health for money.

After the Fame tour I thought I'd never do anything with him again. Because it was monstrous, and it was horrible and bizarre. The way that everyone joined in, it really was very Lord of the Flies and of course I am very Piggy-like.

With the distance of time, I can kind of laugh at it but... today, as a parent, in my 40s, I don't feel I could handle being squealed at constantly, having make up put on my face while a load of tech crew and Matt, his tour manager, dance around in a tribal manner.

That was one of those moments, when the money kept going up, and I said, no, I'm honestly not going to do it.

It's amazing, when you turn down money. It's a far better feeling than when you are making it – as long as you've got enough to survive, of course. You go, 'Oh, what a relief'."

Wow. Good to hear they can get on fine these days, but wow.

[checkoutgirl]

that editor (?) from The Office

Nigel? Was that his name? Taping Nigel I think is the video where Gervais "hazes" him by covering him in tape.

Pilkington had to put up with his head being touched/squeezed, toilet door kicked in, Burger King bag on head etc etc. Final straw was being farted on while filming Derek. I'm sure Gervais would say he made him a millionaire which, you know, isn't exactly untrue.

Did he make Ince a millionaire? I'm not so sure.

[Retinend]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUo-WM_ovw
Ricky Gervais - Taping Nigel
161,598 viewsSep 8, 2010

back in the day, this video was used as evidence that Gervais was a bully through and through.

Just as a straw poll, who still finds it shocking?

Right here!

...I'm blocked, aren't I?

[Greg Torso]

That 'Taping Nigel' extra on the DVD must have been a turning point for a few people. I remember watching it and thinking "wow, what a fucking arsehole". Miserable, bullying shit. And this was before I knew anything about Karl Pilkington. It's interesting how each new attachment followed the same pattern - general respect, flattery, verbal needling, physical bullying, wrestling, squeezing, dressing them up - I mean I say interesting, it's fucking odd. I listened to quite a lot of the XFM shows recentlt when there was a thread on here about them and you can clearly see this pattern with how he treats Karl. It's quite a sharp decline from the first and second series, from "I love Karl, I think he's amazing, he's a genius" to "bald headed Manc twat why don't you fucking smile, eat these burgers".

I will admit, I laughed at those drawings though. They're so bizarre.