Hidden costs of new machines

[peanutbutter]

Was reading about the PS1's 299 announcement and how it was actually kind bollocks when you factored in that the Saturn came with a game and had built in save capacity it wasn't actually the massive difference it reads like today.

I remember my parents being a bit blindisighted when they got me a Gameboy Color and discovered when they gave it to me that they were supposed to buy a game as well. At the time the learned knowledge was that machines would have some kind of pack in so fair enough.

Xbox not being able to play DVDs without buying the remote must have felt like a massive scam to a lot of people who bought one ahead of a PS2 at the time.

[thehungerartist]

The PS Vita's expensive proprietary memory cards were a disgrace, and hamstrung what was a pretty incredible handheld for its time.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Was reading about the PS1's 299 announcement and how it was actually kind bollocks when you factored in that the Saturn came with a game and had built in save capacity it wasn't actually the massive difference it reads like today.

IIRC the Saturn didn't originally come with a game, they just started bundling out of panic post-PlayStation launch as well as sending out free copies of Virtua Fighter Remix. Also, the on-board saves were volatile, requiring the Saturn to be plugged into the mains at all times or rely on a CR2032. Once that died, you'd lose all your saves. The Backup Memory cartridge was a must.

The PS Vita's expensive proprietary memory cards were a disgrace, and hamstrung what was a pretty incredible handheld for its time.

Yeah, I was well up for one until I saw the memory card prices, particularly as they were very small so you'd need to buy more later on.

I can see what they were going for; sell the hardware at a loss and make back the difference with proprietary, overpriced memory cards, but the razor/blade model only really works when you don't force people to buy blades at the same time as the razor. Otherwise you might as well have just bundled them in and charged a more realistic price.

[peanutbutter]

PSP came with a 32MB memory card that you could get quite a  lot of mileage outta. I reckon I got about a year of using it both to store saves for PSP games and packing an SNES emulator in with whatever batch of games I was playing at the time. Only got a new one when PS1 emulation became viable.

I imagine Sony just horribly misgauged the size of card to pack with the Vita? Or did they not include one at all?

IIRC the Saturn didn't originally come with a game, they just started bundling out of panic post-PlayStation launch as well as sending out free copies of Virtua Fighter Remix. Also, the on-board saves were volatile, requiring the Saturn to be plugged into the mains at all times or rely on a CR2032. Once that died, you'd lose all your saves. The Backup Memory cartridge was a must.

This is the US, it was $399 including Virtua Fighter.

Did the CR2032 not last long? That system sounds like absolute wank regardless, mind. Can't blame them for at least trying though.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

The Nintendo Wii sold itself on a pack-in game that was mostly popular for a multiplayer gimmick motion control thing, but there was only one wii-mote in the box. Then there was artificial forced scarcity around buying wii-motes individually so if you wanted two you had to buy one bundled with an abortion of a game called Wii Play which is easily the worst first party Nintendo software since Stack Up. You didn't even get a nunchuck, those had to be bought seperately. More like nuncucked.

[ProvanFan]

Only giving the PS2 two controller ports was shitey behaviour.

[Huxleys Babkins]

PSP came with a 32MB memory card that you could get quite a  lot of mileage outta. I reckon I got about a year of using it both to store saves for PSP games and packing an SNES emulator in with whatever batch of games I was playing at the time. Only got a new one when PS1 emulation became viable.

I imagine Sony just horribly misgauged the size of card to pack with the Vita? Or did they not include one at all?

No, there was no included card, at least not on the original model. The cheaper "2000" version had 1GB of memory built in, but this was mostly reserved for downloading system updates. They did a "Value Pack" toward the end of the machine's life with something like 10 games and an 8GB memory card chucked in, but new game releases had all but dried up by then.

This is the US, it was $399 including Virtua Fighter.

Did the CR2032 not last long? That system sounds like absolute wank regardless, mind. Can't blame them for at least trying though.

Reports drastically vary about the life of Saturn batteries. If you kept the Saturn plugged in, it would be fine. but if you unplugged it, it could go in a matter of months. It's the problem with having both the internal clock and the save RAM powered by the same battery. If they'd used a separate battery for saves, it would have probably lasted decades as they do in cartridge games with battery saves, of they could have just used flash memory like they did in the expansion carts and it would have lasted forever.

[Consignia]

No, there was no included card, at least not on the original model. The cheaper "2000" version had 1GB of memory built in, but this was mostly reserved for downloading system updates. They did a "Value Pack" toward the end of the machine's life with something like 10 games and an 8GB memory card chucked in, but new game releases had all but dried up by then.

IIRC the original European release version was only the value pack, which came with a 32MB memory stick as well as Spiderman on UMD and some headphones. I think the vanilla version was available in other territories but that was only way to get in Europe at launch. I know I definitely got all the gubbins with my launch PSP.

[peanutbutter]

No, there was no included card, at least not on the original model. The cheaper "2000" version had 1GB of memory built in, but this was mostly reserved for downloading system updates. They did a "Value Pack" toward the end of the machine's life with something like 10 games and an 8GB memory card chucked in, but new game releases had all but dried up by then.

Wildly arrogant move in a world where Smartphones were already hitting similar  or lower price points.

Still really want an OLED Vita tbh but there's fuck all on it to justify the urge.

Reports drastically vary about the life of Saturn batteries. If you kept the Saturn plugged in, it would be fine. but if you unplugged it, it could go in a matter of months. It's the problem with having both the internal clock and the save RAM powered by the same battery. If they'd used a separate battery for saves, it would have probably lasted decades as they do in cartridge games with battery saves, of they could have just used flash memory like they did in the expansion carts and it would have lasted forever.

Super interesting, thanks! Do you know if it was possible to change batteries while the device was plugged in or was it by design just not able to outlast the included battery?

IIRC the original European release version was only the value pack, which came with a 32MB memory stick as well as Spiderman on UMD and some headphones. I think the vanilla version was available in other territories but that was only way to get in Europe at launch. I know I definitely got all the gubbins with my launch PSP.

Think they're on about the PS Vita 2000
Spider Man 2 UMD, didn't come in the box but you got it if you registered your device. I'm still waiting for Sony to send me mine...

The Nintendo Wii sold itself on a pack-in game that was mostly popular for a multiplayer gimmick motion control thing, but there was only one wii-mote in the box. Then there was artificial forced scarcity around buying wii-motes individually so if you wanted two you had to buy one bundled with an abortion of a game called Wii Play which is easily the worst first party Nintendo software since Stack Up. You didn't even get a nunchuck, those had to be bought seperately. More like nuncucked.

Amazing play by Nintendo though, conning parents into thinking they're buying a full game with a FREE controller when they're actually just buying an overpriced controller. Bet loadsa people thought they'd got a great deal and then forgot about how shit of a deal it was altogether once they discovered how fun Wii Sports was multiplayer (and wii sports resort still rules tbh)

[checkoutgirl]

blindisighted

Do you mean blindsided?

[Consignia]

Think they're on about the PS Vita 2000
Spider Man 2 UMD, didn't come in the box but you got it if you registered your device. I'm still waiting for Song to send me mine...

Yeah, now that I read it's clearer. I'll just have to apologise for being an illiterate degenerate.

[peanutbutter]

Do you mean blindsided?

yep, definitely not the first time I've gotten that one wrong too...

[Huxleys Babkins]

Super interesting, thanks! Do you know if it was possible to change batteries while the device was plugged in or was it by design just not able to outlast the included battery?

Sega didn't recommend accessing the expansion port whilst it was plugged in. There should be enough residual energy in the capacitors to keep saves intact for a good few minutes after it's unplugged.