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Succession season 3

Started by Blue Jam, July 15, 2021, 10:15:24 PM

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George Oscar Bluth II

Fact that it was in the little recap at the start makes me think a Conor Roy presidential run really is in the offing.

Blue Jam

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on October 19, 2021, 07:01:44 PM
Fact that it was in the little recap at the start makes me think a Conor Roy presidential run really is in the offing.

"Hey Dad, I have a plan! I'll just become President and then tell the world everything Kendall says is FAKE NEWS!"

"Fuck off."

Custard

Quote from: Bobloblawslawbomb on October 19, 2021, 12:20:24 AM
"Have a problem in there, buddy? Can't find a vein?"

Heh, that was great. Pure Thick Of It/Veep

What a great episode to return with. A spectacular load of cunts, scrambling for position in the quicksand. Love, love, love it

Shiv is still insanely attractive, then. And a great character. Her dynamic with her brothers is so real and great

Liked Roman winding her up on the phone. Billions at stake, yet it's still just a sibling winding up another with silliness on the phone. I hope this show never loses that, as it's real and brilliant

Best telly going at the moment, by miiiiiles

Custard

As much as I love Shiv's character, she clearly still isn't ready for the top job. Her childish reaction to her mate turning down her job offer shows that very clearly.

Then after Roman's call she's turning the car round, to (seemingly) head to Kendall's side, without even really putting any thought into it. I love her, and Tom, but they constantly shoot themselves in the foot. And maybe they always will

Talking of Tom, how very awkward his goodbye with his wife was. Blowing a half arsed kiss, her half arsed catching it. Oh dear. I hope those crazy kids patch it up

Yeah, this one episode a week is gonna be a bit hard

Blue Jam

Quote from: Shameless Custard on October 20, 2021, 01:07:25 PM
As much as I love Shiv's character, she clearly still isn't ready for the top job. Her childish reaction to her mate turning down her job offer shows that very clearly.

Quote from: Shameless Custard on October 20, 2021, 12:50:10 PM
Liked Roman winding her up on the phone. Billions at stake, yet it's still just a sibling winding up another with silliness on the phone. I hope this show never loses that, as it's real and brilliant

Yeah, I loved that. Roman's supposedly "the childish one" but Shiv ain't all that grown up, and Roman knows exactly how to push lil' sis's buttons. Real and relatable and hilarious.



phantom_power

They may show flashes of likeability, vulnerability and relatability but the show never forgets that they are fucked up little rich kids who have never "needed" to do a day's work in their lives and have been so immeasurably fucked up by their dad's subtle, and not so subtle, abuses in so many different ways that none of them could ever be a proper functioning person, let alone business giant.

As someone earlier said, if you could Voltron them together you would probably end up with a business god akin to Barry Homeowner but individually they are a mess and part of their fucked-up-ness is that they could never work together as a team without fucking each other over or getting paranoid about the others fucking them over

Blue Jam

Quote from: AllisonSays on October 19, 2021, 04:30:32 PM
I feel like Roman and Kendall are opposites, kind of. Roman doesn't care if people think he's clever and he doesn't present himself with a business-school sheen, he's crass and adolescent, but he comprehends the fundamental dynamics of corporate maneuvering pretty clearly - it's all about power, who has it, and who can get it. Kendall tries very hard to come across as lucid, sensitive, thoughtful, contemporary - as in that cringey Bojack line - but his actual grasp of the realpolitik strategy, the power game, is always vague, which is why he always seems to fuck it up. They're both incomplete copies of their da, I guess, but I think Roman's actually slightly closer to him in his willingness to get down to the basics of the situation (something that consistently eludes Kendall, who's obsessed with fripperies and externalities like his Twitter feed).

This is a great post.

Quote from: Inspector Norse on October 19, 2021, 06:49:59 PM
I kind of think Logan offered it to Shiv last season not as a serious future plan but to see how she reacted; and she reacted impatiently and egotistically, and kept showing poor judgment. It's interesting that as mentioned with Kendall and Roman above, it's the qualities (or flaws) that have made Logan so successful that, in different combinations, make his offspring all unsuited for the top job.

Roman is one who - perhaps because of Geri's influence, and it's hard not to imagine that that subplot is going to end quite delightfully horribly - seems to be developing and getting the hang of what it takes, and he sometimes shows the ruthlessness and killer instinct that Logan has previously looked for in Kendall. But it's Kendall who has the head for details and figures and contacts.
Ultimately the problem is that if the three kids (let's ignore the utterly useless Connor at this point) could work together, they might do a good job, but their total dysfunction prevents it. The moments when they let their guards down and show genuine affection are some of the show's strongest, I often think, but one of its other strengths is showing just how completely fucked up this lifestyle makes people.

So is this.

Quote from: thugler on October 19, 2021, 03:46:04 PM
I was slightly aghast at the idea Roman was even in the running for CEO. Gerri or Shiv were the obvious choice

Isn't it implied that Roman is "The Clever One" (though with the Roys that's not saying much) and would actually be a frontrunner if it weren't for his chronic childishness and tiddly attention span? I'm thinking of things like the episode where he was made to go on a business leadership course at one of Waystar Royco's theme parks, and while he resented the idea that he needed more training, he then took the course semi-seriously and ended up winning the little group project task (before putting on the Biggest Turkey In The World costume and going out in the park to insult the guests).

Shiv's probably the most presentable and the most socially adept (again, not saying much) but as well as representing a Democrat politician who despises everything Logan stands for, she hasn't actually worked for Waystar Royco or in any other media/entertainment business- her background is in politics, not a million miles away but still not as close as Roman or Kendall. And like Kendall, she also isn't half as clever or expertly manipulative as she likes to think she is.

Also for all of Roman's sleazy demeanour, iirc he's actually the only one of the Roy siblings who's not been involved in any major scandal. He's not responsible for the death of an innocent man, he doesn't have a drug problem, he has no connection to the cruise ship scandal (and isn't married to someone who is), he isn't seeking an open marriage and threesomes, he isn't in a weird fake relationship with a hooker. For all that people make him out to be a bit rapey and predatory ("What is that- Date Rape by Calvin Klein?) and the way he plays up to it ("You wish"), he actually has major hang-ups about sex. Sure, he's still a scumbag and nowhere near mature enough for the top job, but am I remembering this correctly or has he managed to keep his hands the cleanest (not counting that time he tried to clean his office window of course)? The sattelite exploding is the worst thing I can think of, and even then he wasn't directly responsible and no-one died. His childishness stops people taking him seriously, but also keeps him away from serious business he can then screw up.

He rushed the satellite launch which blew up in his face. But that's not so much scandalous as incompetent, assuming no one died.

Blue Jam

October 20, 2021, 02:15:04 PM #38 Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 02:26:57 PM by Blue Jam
Quote from: Emotional Support Peacock on October 20, 2021, 02:12:36 PM
He rushed the satellite launch which blew up in his face. But that's not so much scandalous as incompetent, assuming no one died.

Ah right, thanks for that. I couldn't quite remember the details. And no-one died, I think two people lost a thumb or something- perhaps that was to highlight that even when he does fuck up, and with something as spectacular as a sattelite launch, he still doesn't do as much harm as the rest. By contrast Kendall managed to kill someone just by being a passenger in their car, and Cousin Greg may have done an enormous amount of harm with a document shredder.

I'm not defending him of course- I imagine there's a chance that if people took him more seriously and gave him some real power he might prove to be just as much of a liability.

Proactive

Quote from: Inspector Norse on October 19, 2021, 07:06:19 AM
At least with one a week you have time for some proper media monitoring the day after to check reviews and opinion. The Internet is big, obviously, and you couldn't read it all.
Just wanted to give this underrated post a thumbs up.

mjwilson

Quote from: Shameless Custard on October 20, 2021, 01:07:25 PM
Talking of Tom, how very awkward his goodbye with his wife was. Blowing a half arsed kiss, her half arsed catching it. Oh dear. I hope those crazy kids patch it up

Oh no, I want to see Tom set free from that relationship.

Blue Jam

October 20, 2021, 08:39:50 PM #41 Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 09:00:34 PM by Blue Jam
Quote from: Inspector Norse on October 19, 2021, 07:06:19 AM
At least with one a week you have time for some proper media monitoring the day after to check reviews and opinion. The Internet is big, obviously, and you couldn't read it all.

Quote from: Proactive on October 20, 2021, 06:42:29 PM
Just wanted to give this underrated post a thumbs up.

Me too! As someone who got into Breaking Bad, The Sopranos etc long after they first aired it's nice to be able to watch a show and get caught up in the hype, it's probably the closest thing we have to watercooler moments these days.

I love doing this with Succession and Better Call Saul- and I'd say both shows are best not binge-watched. BCS because it's so emotionally draining as well as intricately detailed, but I binge-watched the first two seasons of Succession and while I loved it then, it was only on my recent rewatch that I really took all the little details in. I think I'm now going to treat []Succession[/i] like BCS and watch every episode twice in the week it airs.

As for reviews and opinion- good to take the cultural temperature innit? ;) The AV Club were a bit underwhelmed by episode 1, but I guess a B grade is fair enough for the calm before the storm:

https://www.avclub.com/succession-s-third-season-premieres-with-a-smidge-too-m-1847882111

QuoteEverything seems amped up in a slightly performative way. Kendall and Logan trading barbs pulled from fairy tales through Kendall's assistant Jess

I actually really liked that bit and didn't think it felt contrived at all. It was Logan being genuinely menacing and Kendall not knowing how to respond, coming out with glib replies also mentioning Jack And The Beanstalk where a simple "Fuck off" to his dad would have been much more powerful. Instead he's allowing Logan to keep directing the conversation and Logan's the giant while Kendall is a small child being read a fairytale. For me the humour came mostly from Jess passing messages between them, like a child passing messages between soon-to-be-divorced parents, and being too inexperienced and panicked to do it diplomatically, just quoting their childish remarks verbatim rather than translating them to something more diplomatic like "Mr Roy has taken your remarks on board and will reply in due course" or whatever. Some Thick Of It DNA right there.

Kendall also sounded like such a dweeb in the wake of that magnificent C-bomb from Logan. You can't come back from that with a quote from a pantomime.

chveik

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 20, 2021, 08:39:50 PM
As for reviews and opinion- good to take the cultural temperature innit? ;) The AV Club were a bit underwhelmed by episode 1, but I guess a B grade is fair enough for the calm before the storm:

https://www.avclub.com/succession-s-third-season-premieres-with-a-smidge-too-m-1847882111

hmm that review is basically a summary of the plot. not much value added

Inspector Norse

Quote from: Blue Jam on October 20, 2021, 08:39:50 PM
Me too! As someone who got into Breaking Bad, The Sopranos etc long after they first aired it's nice to be able to watch a show and get caught up in the hype, it's probably the closest thing we have to watercooler moments these days. I love doing this with Succession and Better Call Saul

Yeah, when most shows I watch these days are available as and when I want, it still feels pretty special to have appointment viewing like this. Spring and summer 2017 was a wonderful time with me commandeering the TV every Monday after the kids went to bed in order to get my double bill of Game of Thrones and Twin Peaks. That it's only once a week allows anticipation and the wider cultural impact and significance to build: everyone's experiencing it the same way, reacting at the same time and feeding off what others think.

I think the AV Club are usually pretty good for reviews on things like this and agree with them on some of the points this week. It was a good episode with plenty of good lines and character moments, but a low-key plot-arranger episode nonetheless, and a handful of things did feel a bit token or overfamiliar. But yeah the phone call relayed through Jess was good - it's a childish thing to do (tell him I'm not talking to him) but showed still how a character like Jess will always be simply a tool to the Roys, No Real Person.

peanutbutter

Was weird seeing Adam Friedland's ex-fiance in this

Wasn't too pushed about that first episode tbh, very much felt like a setup episode for the season with very little of note beyond that.

mjwilson

Is this the kind of show where cousin Greg gets the top job at some point? Not on merit obviously, but as a temporary compromise candidate when everyone else is ruled out for other reasons.

I kind of want this to happen, to be honest, but it may be a bit silly for Succession, I don't know.

Ant Farm Keyboard

That would be a little like Tim Robbins in The Hudsucker Proxy.

Custard

Yeah, that'd be a bit too Veep!

AllisonSays

I think it'd make a kind of sense for Greg to get it in that he wasn't born rich and had to fight for it (like Logan); the absence of that in his three kids seems to be one of the reasons he hesitates to trust them.

phantom_power

Greg has shown a but of nous and he has a bit of a Being There vibe where people mistake his naivete for guile

dr beat

Dont get me wrong, I do like this a lot, but isn't it just a Transatlantic Howard's Way?[nb]God I feel old[/nb]

Mobius

Really enjoyed episode 2, very curious to see where this is all going.

In a way it's all so mundane. But also fascinating.

dr beat

Actually, no.  It *is* just Howard's Way

chveik

episode was a bit of a waste, they just ended exactly where there were at the start in terms of loyalties

Inspector Norse

It wasn't about the plot - unlike the first episode, which was very much a setting out of the stall.

It was less zippy than usual, there were fewer laughs and no flashy location work: it was a cold, harsh look at the siblings' rivalry, getting them all in a room together and watching their mental contortions and attempts to bluff and undermine one another. That they all ended up in exactly the same situation as they started was the point: for all their plots and machinations, for all their desperate self-deception, they're locked in place, unable to pull themselves out of this game and still all in thrall to their father: he was the one who ended up making a decisive move.

Despite the low-key tone there were still some great little moments, as well: Shiv's look of resigned regret as she waited to meet her dad at the airport, Connor - usually the "irrelevant" outsider - doing a passable voice-of-reason job, the little hint that maybe Roman hasn't hidden his Geri infatuation as well as he thinks. Peter Riegert showing up.

Custard

Really enjoyed that. It was almost a play featuring the four siblings, and again the dynamic was great to watch

"I thought I could hear a clown car pulling up" got one of the biggest laffs

"A stretch? It's like pulling a foreskin over a timpani drum!" being another

Loved Kendall trying to schmooze them, pulling on their heart strings and egos, failng, then reverting to nasty cunt when he fails. Basically calling Shiv just a walking pair of tits. Oooof

Blue Jam

Loved that. Kendall trying to rally the Roy siblings while Roman paces around touching things and reminding us he has the attention span of a (slime) puppy, Shiv cuddles a Peppa Pig and Connor is more interested in the donuts. Reminded me of the bit in In The Loop where they're trying to work out potential numbers of war dead on a giant calculator while sat on a small child's bed piled with soft toys. The banality of evil.

I'd almost forgotten how loathsome Marcia is. Probably the character I love to hate the most.

Heavily refrigerated cheeses.

Blue Jam

Quote from: Better Midlands on October 27, 2021, 10:03:36 AM
Heavily refrigerated cheeses.

Yes, that was a wonderful little detail.

Hat FM

the idea of someone complaining about first class/business class plane travel is mind blowing until you realise that they are used to flying on private jets.