Labour Party: Kieth Stalin: The Gammon Panderer (and Blackpool Cock)

[pigamus]

Morally it definitely feels like they're worse. With the Tories the evil is priced in.

[Sebastian Cobb]

They're more dishonest in their justifications for doing bad stuff, at least with the tories it's an honest 'fuck you, that's why'.

The harm is that they act as an obstacle to any further good, by dishonestly convincing people they are doing all the good they can, and all the bad stuff for the right reasons.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

at least with the tories it's an honest 'fuck you, that's why'.

People say this yet Johnson is the most renowned liar in the country, and their courting of the working classes is an entire exercise in deceit and manipulation. That we here all see through it doesn't mean it isn't there.

[pigamus]

People always ask why we seem get more angry at own side than with the Tories, and this is why. But they never listen when you explain it to them. It's like when they ask why we can't all get along, why we can't unite against a common enemy - they're never interested in listening to the answer.

[Buelligan]

Exactly that and exactly this.

They're more dishonest in their justifications for doing bad stuff, at least with the tories it's an honest 'fuck you, that's why'.

The harm is that they act as an obstacle to any further good, by dishonestly convincing people they are doing all the good they can, and all the bad stuff for the right reasons.

And Jockice, really, I don't know if I'm unusual but I never take political conversations to heart - personal stuff, that's another thing - but political discussion, IMO, speaking and listening without fear or favour, is exactly how things get better and no intelligent person should carry grudges over working in that way. 

EtA On the stuff about Johnson's lies - it's obvious to me, the people now running the Labour Party have conducted a vicious campaign to paint their own comrades as antisemites.  Complicit or sympathetic with, genocide.  That's genuinely digusting.  Beyond disgusting. There is no darkness deep enough to obliterate the using of victims of the Holocaust as pawns in a power struggle and it's a thousand times worse when they're being used without reason, the only reason being for power and advantage to the user.  It goes far beyond, in terms of genuine amorality or wickedness, the outward-focused cruelty of the tories.

[idunnosomename]

Cant believe i missed Sir Keir's birthday yesterday. Hope the big man had a good one. Here's to many more!

[Johnny Yesno]

Morally it definitely feels like they're worse. With the Tories the evil is priced in.

However, it's worth remembering that the so-called 'centrists' used the same argument when attacking Corbyn.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Cant believe i missed Sir Keir's birthday yesterday. Hope the big man had a good one. Here's to many more!

Hope he pulls follows through

[idunnosomename]

Can't stop laughing at this Times article by a tory lord

This week, Starmer promised to paint his vision for Britain "in primary colours". It is not a good sign that he felt he needed to make this pledge rather than just getting on with the painting. It's an earnest pledge, a dutiful ambition and not a stupid plan. Because Starmer is a diligent, responsible, honourable and intelligent man.

https://archive.md/k5sZM

[Paul Calf]

Of course he's saying that. They desperately want him to continue holding down the Labour Party and the country so Johnson can feel it up with his sticky, pudgy fucking hands while the rest of his party goes through our pockets.

[Fambo Number Mive]

A bit like Kinnock in the 1980s? Although Starmer feels far worse than Kinnock.

Love that the new book on Keith is called Red Knight, Beige Knave would be a better title.

[Sebastian Cobb]

EXCL: Prospect of a picket line at Labour conference avoided. "I am pleased to say that at this stage we see no need to consider compulsory redundancies as part of this process," David Evans has told Labour staff.

Could compulsory redundancies still take place after the party undertakes its financial review ending next month? "Absolutely could still happen" says a party source.

HOWEVER – I've just been told by the relevant GMB organiser Vaughan West that the Unite and GMB received further reassurances today that "make us confident there will be no compulsory redundancies as part of this process" (these were not included in email to staff)

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1433786746194612245

all very clear then

[canadagoose]

Is there any campaign for PR in Westminster? It would probably help the left a good bit, but Labour don't seem to want it (and didn't at the time of the AV ref).

[Buelligan]

However, it's worth remembering that the so-called 'centrists' used the same argument when attacking Corbyn.

Another great reason why splitting the Party/not being in a party with them is the way to stop this fucking shit going on forever.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Is there any campaign for PR in Westminster? It would probably help the left a good bit, but Labour don't seem to want it (and didn't at the time of the AV ref).

I don't think the majority of the PLP, the ones that can whether good and bad elections have any interest in it.

[Johnny Yesno]

Another great reason why splitting the Party/not being in a party with them is the way to stop this fucking shit going on forever.

No.

[Buelligan]

More on the John McTernan/Young Labour/Antisemitism twitter smear -

@novaramedia
Guys, I think you are being libelled, as am I.

Replying to @EJBergen @Pteroda06253774 and 5 others
To say that an organization is "reasonable" which defended defacing a Holocaust memorial, which lobbied against Jews being permitted to define antisemitism etc (below) means you are aligned with them.

Novara Media is antisemitic. John thinks they're reasonable. He's antisemitic.

https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/1433750453595037698

[Famous Mortimer]

No.

Yes.

[idunnosomename]

Neil Kinnock isn't dead yet? fucking hell.

[Johnny Yesno]

.

[Buelligan]

Neil Kinnock isn't dead yet? fucking hell.

Those that ask, don't get.  That's what my gran said.

But seriously, these people are demented aren't they?  I mean, who in the world (apart from Neil Kinnock) likes, respects, trusts Neil Kinnock?

[olliebean]

Neil Kinnock isn't dead yet? fucking hell.

Only on the inside.

[idunnosomename]

Coyle by name coil by nature at it again

https://twitter.com/coyleneil/status/1434109959265005569

[Buelligan]

That Jeff Samuels fellow too though, really, someone with a massive agenda who is extremely unpleasant IMO. 

[holyzombiejesus]

That Jeff Samuels fellow too though, really, someone with a massive agenda who is extremely unpleasant IMO. 

When Jeffrey Samuels QC agreed to defend in court one of the most infamous British murderers of the past decade, he must have known it would prove an unpopular brief.

But the Manchester-based QC can hardly have predicted the vitriol he would face in the wake of Levi Bellfield's conviction on Thursday for the 2002 murder of schoolgirl Milly Dowler.

The barrister, who won Barry George's acquittal on appeal over the 1999 murder of Jill Dando, is described on his firm's website as a "very useful operator" with "very fine judgment". It is that judgement, however, that has since been called into question.

Mr Samuels' cross-examination came under fire for suggesting the 13-year-old fled from home because she was tormented and unhappy. He claimed her misery had been compounded by the belief her mother favoured her sister and that she had found a porn magazine of her father's.

Mrs Dowler collapsed and had to be helped from the court after leaving the stand and Mr Dowler wept as letters written by Milly were read out to him in court, in which she referred to herself as "your little disappointment".

After the verdict, the family issued an attack on his mode of questioning, branding Mr Samuels' treatment of them as "mental torture".

But friends of the barrister have defended him. "Jeffrey is an extremely nice chap outside court," said one barrister, anonymously. "But like any QC worth his silk, once the wig and gown goes on, it is down to business. He is clearly ambitious and doesn't shirk the chance to take on the big trials. He wants to be a big hitter. Of course he will have known how his line of questioning on the Dowler family will have made uncomfortable viewing and would have been particularly unpleasant for the family. But a lawyer is not in court to make friends. He is there to do his job."

Leading QC Michael Wolkind added: "A counsel's duty is always to carry out his client's instructions fiercely, although there is always an element of judgement in how he presents the style and manor in which he presents his defence."

Based at St John's Buildings chambers in Manchester, Mr Samuels has been a Queen's Counsel since 2009. He was called to bar in 1988. In 2009, Mr Samuels unsuccessfully tried to overturn the conviction of Colin Norris, who murdered four elderly patients in his care while he was a nurse in Leeds hospitals in 2002. His other notable defences include Petros Williams, jailed for 28 years last year for murdering his two- and four-year-old children, and Mo Ibrahim, jailed for life for his part in the "honour killing" of a couple whose house was burned down in a 2009 petrol attack.

I realise that barristers who defend the nastier cases are a vital part of our justice system but I think the bits in bold are quite illuminating. The guy's a scumbag.

[Buelligan]

Wow, didn't know any of that stuff, I just loathe his ass for everything I've ever heard him say.

[olliebean]

From that "Fit for the Future" PDF, regarding the perceived problem of "woke culture:"

Keir Starmer should make a series of interventions in the media, loudly and publicly criticising this tendency within Labour and setting out the new culture he would like to see. He would benefit from the blanket coverage it will generate from the media who are hungry to cover culture war stories. It would also provide much needed cut through in the likes of GB News, The Telegraph and the Daily Mail – where we need to win round at least some of the readers and viewers to win the next election.

Aside from the delusion that anything Keir Starmer says is likely to generate blanket media coverage - imagine thinking that there's anything to be gained by winning over GB News' paltry viewership.

[Johnny Yesno]

Aye, daytime figures are 20k, aren't they?

[Fambo Number Mive]

There is no way Starmer will ever win over the Telegraph, Daily Mail and GB News. I don't think the two former even backed Blair in 1997. Johnson is the Telegraph's man and I'm sure the Mail and GB News love him as well.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I wonder if starmer knows he will never be pm. I hope so. I hope it keeps him awake at night and gnaws away at him.